A Good Anti-Hero

[DokiDokiTsuna]

What makes a good anti-hero?

I can easily think of all the things people like about anti-heroes: using forbidden power for good, embracing their vengeful sides, just generally letting their vices shine instead of trying to stamp them out.

But I can't really think of many things people dislike about anti-heroes...which means, now that I'm writing one, I don't know what to avoid. ^^;

The one thing I do try to avoid (I feel like this is just a personal preference, though) is too much regret.
It's difficult, because my anti-heroine is not really a mean person; she just has a habit of putting herself first that she can't seem to break. And when that gets her into trouble with the few people she cares about, she does feel bad...at least a little. Some regret is inevitable.

But having her really dwell on all the damage she causes usually sends her into an angsty spiral of self-hatred that I don't like. She started her 'business' on a whim, after all. ^^; It would be difficult for her to get out of it, but not impossible, so if she felt THAT guilty about what she does, then at some point the reader would have to ask "well, why doesn't she just quit?" And then the story would become pointless, which would not be good.

So I try hard to keep her character light and detached. She avoids having to think about being a decent human being by avoiding human relationships altogether. Although she's by no means socially awkward, most of her interaction with other people is shallow and/or based on her work: she's like the kind of person who talks to everyone, yet has no real friends. And you can't regret letting your friends down if they don't exist~.

[Maps]

I think it’s all about balance. Generally I think many creators want their antiheros to be taken in a fairly decent light (like, we don’t want the audience despising them), so it’s all about finding the balance between what makes them likable and unconventional. And antiheros are fun because I think they have more freedom to act out in unexpected ways for an audience. They’re more unpredictable.
The closest character I have to an antihero probably leans more toward a hero side, since his antihero actions happened in the past and are revealed in flashbacks mainly. He’s got a lot of flaws and a darker past that has affected some of the other characters negatively. He’s sort of in a process of redeeming himself, but still struggles with his bad vices that hurt him and other characters.
I was really worried my audience would hate him, but he hasn’t gotten any hate yet, so I’m glad for that lol.

[Tobirone]

That's deep.
Anti-heros go by more than one receipe I guess. But what I like in anti-heroes is when they are more down to earth. The "ideal normal hero" is kind of the selfless hero who'd do anything to save someone or something, has a high pitch of moral and is always questioning his or her own deeds.
When I hear "anti-hero" I think Deadpool (of course), Wolverine or Harley Quinn (in New 52, respectively Univers Rebirth).
They do things for (what they think is) the right cause. Especially Deadpool and Harley though use ways that are downright brutal. What they do or rather they way they do it is not "justice" but what they feel is "right". So in comparison to "heroes by the book" they do what seems to be what "people" or "the citizens" might call "just" and is kind of right. First two pages of Harley Quinn for example show her riding on a bike into NYC, then seeing a poor dog draged by his owner on his lead crying because he is hurt while his owner doesn't even notice. She then grabs the lead (or was it a whip?) and drags HIM behind her while still riding the bike. The dog though sits on the gas tank triumphant.

In that way anti-heroes may be not the ideal, but the normal every day person who happpened to get super powers while not have gained super-morals (or a law degree ... or the will to go by it).

[joannekwan]

Balance is a great major point when it comes to anti-heroes!
You have to strike enough points for the audience to root for your anti-hero, but give them enough leeway so that they're not your upstanding goody-good hero.

Venom for example vows to protect innocents like babies and the homeless, but if you harm another person he won't hesitate to tear you apart.

[vothnthorvaldson]

I would say my favorite type of anti-heroes are those would should be seen as heroes.. but are not because of the way society put value into the wrong things. Up to a point, the characters that are written as heroes in popular culture have often not attractive personalities or purposes to my eyes; so I cannot understand their hero status, and thus the whole story does not make sense to me.

Whereas a character written to be an anti-hero has more chance to have a heroic status in my eyes. Not necessarily, but it's more probable.

So, to push this logic to it's absurd extreme, a good anti-hero for me, would be a character that is written to be a hero in the usual meaning of the word, but that I can still relate to.

[TJSchongar]

I watched a video essay on this topic - if I can remember the creator, I will absolutely link it here at some point. But for now, I'll summarize the biggest point that I took away from it:

Motivated. Your anti-hero needs to be motivated. That's not in the sense of general characterization - EVERY character needs to have some kind of motivaTION. But an anti-hero needs to be motivatED. They need to feel that whatever they're doing, whatever their goal is, however they see the world, is the right thing. For them, the ends absolutely justify the means. Walter White of Breaking Bad is a great, extreme example of this. People were enchanted by his character not because they agreed with what he did, but because of the combination of why he started doing it and how convinced he was of his path. It creates a magnetism, a charisma that people are drawn to.

The FUN of an anti-hero (for me) is when those convictions get challenged. You mentioned that you don't want them to spiral into too much angst - they don't have to. When they start truly considering the consequences of their actions, they can have all KINDS of reactions. Anger at themselves, misplaced anger at others, a dis-associative episode, fear that makes them want to double down, detached peace, mourning, confusion, even hope (if they see this moment as a saving grace or a way to improve on their methods).

Your anti-hero can be and act however she wants. What should make her anti- is the fact that we, the audience, have serious reason to question her goals or methods, but we don't question how motivated she is until she questions it herself.

[Luminosophy]

I can easily think of all the things people like about anti-heroes: using forbidden power for good, embracing their vengeful sides, just generally letting their vices shine instead of trying to stamp them out.

For me as a reader, it has nothing to do with their actions or behaviours (superficial level), but the reasoning / personal justifications for any of them. Light Yagami from Death Note is one example of a good anti-hero that springs to mind, at least at the beginning. This is because you can sympathize with his justifications, or otherwise understand them even if you don't ultimately agree. And I would go as far as to say for a lot of people these archetypes came about to fill a need to make heroes more relatable to the average joe. They were a rebellion of the sort of ideal behind characters like Superhuman who are portrayed (at least in the past) as being 'too perfect'.

But I can't really think of many things people dislike about anti-heroes...which means, now that I'm writing one, I don't know what to avoid. ^^;

A ton actually, and all poorly written anti-heros tend to stem from my initial point; poor or entire lack of justification for the character's actions. If you miss that beat, you are writing a pure villain. I noticed a lot of discussion from readers and writers who say they feel flooded by copy paste Emo McEdgelords who exist solely to be cool rather than having any thought explained behind the character's mindset, beliefs or background in general. So your biggest challenge writing this character is going to be not glossing over these incredibly crucial details.

[JeanGuillet]

What is the difference between an anti-hero and an anti-villain? Or to get all obi-wan kenobi on everyone, is the only difference between a hero and a villain your 'point of view'? Because each character has to truly believe their own actions are the right ones, and good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things....so what if it just comes down to what role you, the author 'designates' each character as or on the flip-side, how willing your audience is to put up with moral nuance? Sounds really ham fisted, but I've run up against a lot of feedback that fits with this idea from people who've read my good-natured villain lead. The moral ambiguity comes less from what he does, and more from how other people in the comic treat him. Maybe that circles back around to the social pressure idea that's been expressed above.

[RiidDisBuk]

I'M WRITING AN ANTI HERO!!

Also watch this video. You'll get a lot of ideas from it

[RiidDisBuk]

I thought anti-villains are those who do good for bad and anti-heroes are those that do bad for good.

[Zaboem]

You start some deep threads, Soki. Yes, your strategy for writing an anti-hero seems to work for me. Just be aware of which traits you are using to define the character.

There is no single trait for me which is a deal-breaker that can mage me dislike a character. Some traits, however, are just not fun to see emphasized. For my example, look at the Punisher. He's clearly an anti-hero based upon his violent methods and cynical outlook which frustrates even his own supporting cast. He also has a lot of admirable hero traits like grit, bravery, cleverness, et cetera. In the first season of the Netflix show, I liked when Frank displayed those hero traits which I mentioned. I even appreciated when his PTSD thing made his act depressed or nihilistic. I hated it when he was endlessly bickering with Microchip. That was another facet of his anti-social personality but it got presented in a way which was not fun for the audience. The nihilism wore thin for me too but not nearly as much as the bickering.

Make an actual chart with two columns. In one collumn, list thr ways in which the character is heroic (bravery, strength, opposition to a greater villain, that sort of list). In the second collumn, list the traits in which the character is not heroic (cowardness, weakness, maybe lashing out characters who do not deserve it). Then go back through these traits and place a check next to each one which make the character fun to follow. If you find yourself focusing on the traits which are not checked, you might need to refocus how the character is portrayed.

I need to come back to this thread later with an analysis of my own anti-hero character. I have already wall-o-texted too much for now.

[JeanGuillet]

in other words: who, whom? back to the designated hero/villain.

[RiidDisBuk]

No. You know how anti-heroes do bad for the better?

I thought anti-villains do good for the worse.

[unknown_user]

I think that "anti-hero" trope gives more freedom for creating rich personality of character, than "hero". So, my opinion is, just make their personality as rich and consistent as possible, and they already will be interesting; if they are humans, make them remind a real humans, with real weaknesses and merits, so the reader could relate to them.

P.S.

For my example, look at the Punisher. He's clearly an anti-hero based upon his violent methods and cynical outlook which frustrates even his own supporting cast.

Man... Punisher is probably the only character from Marvel universe, who I like

[DiegoPalacios]

Wow....Venom helps people? (i expected the brutal approach, but the protecting innocents is a surprise)

[joannekwan]

Yeah, when he got his own independent run after debuting in Spider-Man he became the 'Lethal Protector' and an early arc is him fighting in defense of a civilization of homeless people living underneath San Francisco. xD

[baasinsimple]

She seems more like just a morally bankrupt character with sociopathic tendencies than an a traditional Anti-Hero (that isn't a bad thing sounds like the Phantom Troupe from Hunter X Hunter who are an amazing batch of characters in their own right). I mean from what I understand Anti-heroes for the most part have their unconventional morality and lack of heroic traits that are a direct result from the burden of their goals or the psychology they have (Hence why they're called Anti-heroes and not Anti-villains because their goals or methods are in the end more heroic than most). Your protagonist sounds a bit more of an Anti-villain than an anti-hero. Because from only what we can gather from your post this anti-hero isn't motivated, just sounds like a bit of wild card with no genuine reasoning behind her actions.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Your protagonist sounds a bit more of an Anti-villain than an anti-hero. Because from only what we can gather from your post this anti-hero isn't motivated, just sounds like a bit of wild card with no genuine reasoning behind her actions.

Damn. You speak truth...although I don't think I would go as far as calling her 'morally bankrupt'...

But is that really what an anti-villain is? A villain who...doesn't really know what they're about? I kinda thought it was more like the opposite of anti-hero, someone whose good intentions/motivations lead them down dark paths (like someone covering up a murder to save a friend, only to end up covering up more crimes and even committing them, getting sucked into a hole of evil that they can't get out of...)

[Zaboem]

I did mention my anti-hero character. 402 is a Machine Man, a race of self-aware metallic robots on Breachworld who possess no knowledge of their own origins. It is also the protaginist of Soulless Saint, a novella about a robot joining a religious cult. He works as a freelance assassin. 402 does live by his own code, an very admirable code in fact: The Code of the West. This set of ethics guided cowboys back during the days of legend. With 402, every moral rule gets twisted in its interpretation so that it makes sense to a soulless killing machine but seems against the pale to most everybody else. For example, TAKE PRIDE IN YOUR WORK is one of the rules in the Code of the West, but to 402 this means killing people with efficiency.

[baasinsimple]

Honestly an anti-villain is someone that becomes an antagonistic force that can have good or neutral feelings about a situation but don't have any bad intent. So while your example of anti-villain is correct, with barely any tweaking at all, I think your character would be an amazing anti-villain.