A rant on certain writers

[ASPEN_RAINER]

I've never felt such second hand embarrassment seeing other writers look to artists for free art, or collaborations with no payment, because anyone who's struggled with making art and recognizes the value of actual work knows that's such a laughable thing to ask for.

If I had enough money, I'd be happy to commission people, but I'm broke, so in the mean time I have to do things myself and that's fair enough.

I just hate seeing one kind of artist attempt cheat other artists and pretend like it's so innocent. If you expect to be paid for your work, pay others for their work, otherwise, don't bother and learn how to do things yourself.

This really just came about because I'm just not feeling very proud of being part of the writing community at all these days and this is one of the key things that set me off; some writers are just awful and groups of them make the community as a whole look even worse.

[surenlicious]

As a artist who writes novels and makes the art of it by myself as well, I fully understand your frustration as I've had it happen to me a lot in the past. I very much appreciate you looking out for artists and making sure everyone gets proper payment for something they're willing to invest time and resources to. I know it's one of the things that always seems to come back in the community, but I promise there are lots of kind folks around who do us all justice.

But I think its a sweet thing to bring to everybody's attention too.

[Bishmuth]

I'm not sure if I agree fully with this.

I'm primarily an artist. I write for my own webcomic, but I'm definitely not great at it.
I'm sure that there are others in this situation, where they are more interested in the art side, rather than the writing side.

I absolutely appreciate that artwork is worth money. There's no arguing about that. However, if both the writer and artist aren't expecting to earn money off a project, I think that it's fine to at least ask if anyone is willing to do art for them It might not be likely that they'll get a response, but it's not like anyone is forcing anyone to do anything.

An artist might lack amazing writing skills, but might be great at visual storytelling and have a lovely art style. If an equally fantastic writer is offering their story up for someone to do art for, they can both benefit. The artist might gain the recognition they deserve because of the writer's great writing.

Obviously if the writer is expecting to earn lots of money off a project and they expect the artist to work totally for free, that's a completely different story...

I don't know, that's just my thoughts as a relatively new comic artist (though I've been doing digital art since I was 9, so almost 10 years worth of it!)

[Kelheor]

As (just) an artist I have another problems with those.

Not even that they don't want to pay (I mean, I can understand this one, some just can not pay), but that most of them think that artists have nothing to do with their lives and will throw themselves on every writer with "idea".

Come on people, even I, the person who cannot make a consistent plot, have "ideas". How can I know if I want to work with you if you only have the idea and nothing else? How do you even call yourself a writer if you not only haven't written anything, but haven't even though through the thing you want to be made into a comic by someone's (not yours) hands and a huge amount of someone's (not yours) time? At least make some effort into calling yourself "the writer". Like, write something

[snowy]

Even if you have the greatest story ever, you should still pay for art.

[jensrichard77]

Every time I work with an artist I pay all the respect and share I ever can or promised.

I’m alsos open to what the artist brings to the table. I might have the perfect story in my mind. But the way an artist can bring new ways to see and tell my story is priceless.

It is kind of when a movie actor is so deep in characters and improvise to make a greater scene.

Things just work best when all parts respect the work and the person behind.

I’m so sorry when artists meet greedy writers. Just as I’m sorry when an artist ran off with my script or keep forcing changes that give plot holes.

[Mallory]

I used to feel that way too, until I found the comic book collab subreddit and to my surprise saw that there actually were artists jumping on offers to do free art for someone else's writing. (The caveat of course was that they usually only wanted to do a couple pages for their portfolio, but still...). So now I don't feel the second-hand embarrassment if the writer is humble and makes it obvious that they know exactly what they're asking for, because, well... there's apparently artists who are into that sort of thing? And there are people who genuinely find a long-term collaborator this way, so, meh, I guess.

The thing that still tickles me pink are the amateur "writers" (really, "idea men") with a serious case of mistaken self-importance. "When I'm famous of my AMAZING idea, I will share the fame with you." Yeah, sure, hun. Just based off of our interactions, I'm pretty sure I'm a better writer than you, but do go on. "Oh, I can't SHARE my AMAZING idea with you until you agree to draw it." Yawn, you know what they say about opinions? The same can be said about ideas. Everyone's got one. Everyone thinks theirs is the only good one. Especially when all of this is bundled with an unsolicited approach via private message "Hey, I see you are busy with your own project and have never expressed the desire to draw for someone else, but wait until you find out how amazing I, an IDEA MAN WITH NO CREDITS TO HIS/HER NAME, am...." My eyes. They cannot roll into my head any further. I haven't had this happen for a few years because I had to quit drawing due to injuries, but I remember when this was a semi-regular occurrence.

[Jenny-Toons]

"Oh, I can't SHARE my AMAZING idea with you until you agree to draw it."

Adding on to this point, even when people have had valid reasons for keeping their work hidden, there is still ethos at play: the lack of credibility.

How is anyone (artist or writer alike) supposed to work with the pitcher if there is no evidence they can do the work? "Take my word for it" -- No, I would rather you show me finished projects. I would like to see the projects you've done for yourself or for other people or what you're currently doing. Credibility is important here, and I feel a lot of people looking for collabs kinda forget that. I won't take your word for it unless I know you like that

If I don't know you like that, I'm gonna need to see something you've done in the past.

There's also that weird onesided feeling of "Oh, I can't show you my idea unless you agree: you'll steal it"-- and you WON'T steal someone else's art/writing excerpts if they show you examples in a DM? Because that's how it sounds. Other people have to give up examples, but the pitcher is not willing to do the same? Not someone I wanna work with. If we're collabing, that means there has to be a sense of trust in this. If you already assume someone would steal your idea (which is a laugh -- ideas are dime a dozen), you've already displayed that you don't really trust the people you're trying to collaborate with.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Thinking people won't steal in DM but will steal on the original message is very stupid, and probably has other not that great motives (especially when the idea is to trick someone to speak privately); however, often, that's not what I see.
I generally see that the writer does not want to show their works in public, but are willing to do it privately. Which I can understand, BUT!

A writer MUST have something to show. If they don't want to spoil their story or are afraid of thieves, they can show something else as an example, then if it's of interest to the artist, DM can happen. If the writer doesn't have a finished project or something, (even a writing exercise may do).. for sure they are not ready for a collaboration.

[Inspector_Spinda]

I think collabs are okay on concept. If you're an artist without ideas who wants to draw someone else's story that's fine. It's rare they work out in my opinion, but no harm in trying

[indagold]

Every "collab passion project" i've seen done with strangers either ends abruptly, in a turbulent cat fight or someone ghosting someone else. This is why you should run, run far away from the idea guys...their head is far in the clouds or too far up their ass.

Usually I work on zines or structured group projects where there's a clear goal in mind. Or with a friend or someone you know you can trust.

[jensrichard77]

Every "collab passion project" i've seen done with strangers either ends abruptly, in a turbulent cat fight or someone ghosting someone else.

I have 4 well-done success in collab work going on right now.

The Last BL Comic | Tapas

The Catmen Sorceress | Tapas

We just sent out all the emails to those who made it, if you pitched, CHECK YOUR EMAIL!! [image] Besides coffee, Kim and Cebyr here sure love a good cup of tea, and so we're here with our next anthology theme. :wink: Just like last year we're opening up pitches for all you lovely people to get yourself into a magazine! There's a few minor changes to make it easier for ourselves and for you. This is a Paid Project, with a guaranteed publication! If you want to know more about the project …

And then there is the big one I’m working hard on right now and can’t tell about yet

[amortelito]

As an artist who draws and makes the plot, I'm not sure I fully agree with this. I have made short comics for very cool writers. I think that those people being called out are mostly not writers, they are just people who have an idea and want you to draw their dream comic. Often bring to the table a very rough premise or a whole complex world meant to be divided in 5000 episodes and a spin off. There is rarely a defined direction.

It takes a lot of work to design the characters, make the panels, draw, color, etc. So, in exchange the other part should have a work that is worth the effort.

A solid story and a good plot has value and I would love to have the time to draw comics based on novels. (Like Penni's novels, I love them so much)

[Heidifisk]

I almost always offer to pay people of they are working, especially on a long form comic. Heck, my comic right now is a project with a writer I started with.

Of course all my scripts ect, are almost all fully finished since they are based off of books I wrote. So a lot of writing is already done.

[Rhonder]

I don't think there's anything wrong with unpaid collabs conceptually. The idea is fine and it can lead to some cool opportunities for both parties involved! Just a lot of them... aren't appealing offers, at least that we see around here lol. But the idea itself is nice

[faeriesandents]

Oh hell no! You can talk about it for sure By all means keep it open and get people hyped

[jensrichard77]

Oh hell no! You can talk about it for sure

Oh yes I can talk about "The Last Cup Of Tea" that I have written for that project.

But there is a current one right now. A bigger, world-build fantasy that I have been written on for a half year that I can't talk about right now

[tfairbankssecond]

As a writer with no artistic ability, I always try to exonerate any artist I work with. My novel is pretty non-profit and I just write to share the writing. I think it's fun and if people enjoy my writing I am happy. I have asked artists for concepts though, even though I can't pay. If I found an artist willing to make a comic of my novel for free, pfft, I'd die. I'm actually still pretty small so of course there isn't money. The only collab stuff I like to do isn't even my "big idea". I will hop on any collab just because writing with others is fun. I know full well that artists are talented and their work is worth money and I full heartedly apologize that I can't pay the ones I work with. If artists dont want to collab or something, it's ok to say no. I would say, in my case, I just like to write so I have no job to make art. I would love to see my writing come to life, but I would need to be able to make it worth their while. I hope asking for covers and concepts without pay isn't too much, I at least try to publicize what I can... Besides that, I wouldn't dream of asking for more until I can pay.