20 / 46
Jun 2018

Including this topic? lol :wink:

Silent Horror has 290,000 subs. If you look at the total number of comics and novels listed on the site, it's not more than 55,000. Taking into account that some creators have multiple series that's, what, 20% at most? And that's assuming every creator on tapas is subbed to Silent Horror. (is this how math works?? honestly I dunno but clearly there are more readers than creators).

A simpler theory: most Tapas users are on mobile, and one mobile 1) engagement on mobile is naturally very low, and 2) there isn't even a link to the forum. Even on Desktop the forum is listed under your profile in the menu, which a reader has no reason to even look at once they've finished creating their account the first time. So it makes sense that readers would have a hard time finding it at all.

Plus as someone pointed out in an earlier thread, readers don't need to come to the forum to talk about comics they like. They can do that in the comments of the comic itself, if they're inclined to comment at all.

Ditto on the whole "there are more readers than crestors" thing. Even on my comics with a smallish audience (almost 500 subs) the majority of my readers aren't creators. That said... The majority of my ACTIVE readers (the ones that leave comments and likes) are creators. Creators are the ones that understand how much comments and likes can mean to someone, and how much they impact your ability to reach trending.

You can call it cynical but I try to leave a like on every page I read (unless I really really hate it). This isn't me jockying support for the creators I associate with, it's just straight up the bare minimum I can do to support the creators I enjoy.

Sometimes I think I've ruined my chances of every getting an HBO series. But then I remember that Game of Thrones has loads of nudity and brother-sister incest.

The obvious solution here is to introduce a walking vagina the size of Santorini Caldera.

no s**t, I had the same thought too. Majority are literally creators or artist

In the beginning here my comic mostly got subscribers that had there own comics. Now I would say I am noticing an opposite trend. Almost all the subs I gotten recently has had nothing on their accounts except others they are following... So I think the numer of people who are "just" readers are growing. :slight_smile: It would be interesting to see some stats on that tho. ^^

I don't appreciate you insinuating that I am fishing for subscriptions. I am not. What I am in search for are honest conversations about fairness on these Webtoon hosting websites. The only reason I am here at this point is because of this forum, or that one-in-a-million shot at a feature.

I also grow tired of having to do things to get reciprocated attention, such as read everyone else's stuff, "like" everything, etc. I'm a creator. I work hard on top of a full time job. I do enough - I help tapas have more readership and ad revenue. We all do more than "enough". The hosts may consider that the massive majority of comics out there, that are quality, with 50-500 subs, when put together, vastly outnumber the few big ones that they constantly cater to.

I have a Patreon which is off the ground. Not wonderful but I'm glad there's something there. To me it's about ROI. I have a job and I put good money into my projects, but I'd like to see them keep going rather than having to cancel.

Patreon, I've found, is the most reliable source of income. I have ads prepared for my own website were I ever to self-host, but Patreon does that job pretty well. No sense in splitting the audience more than it already is.

My impression was that paid ads go a lot further these days, but I'd be interested to hear from those who've actually gone ahead with that.

My experience with Twitter promotional advertising has been good, if you would ever consider that for traffic. A dollar a day promoting a tweet with my Tapas url got me 10% click engagement.

I know a quite a few people, myself included, who pour their heart and soul into a comic which is never going to have mass appeal. We do it because we love it and getting a few appreciative readers is a bonus. It's not about fairness or quality - nobody is owed an audience, especially if you're doing something that's niche or few people are going to get.

What I imagine would be frustrating is creating a comic designed to attract readers with the expectation of it becoming popular and then failing to do so. Not only would you have not succeeded, but you'd also possibly make something you didn't care about or like that much.

Okay but you did say "everyone's saying 'help i need money'" followed by "I'm not making enough money" so is the insinuation unfair?

I get it's frustrating but we are ALL working very hard. And it wasn't that long ago that sites like this didn't exist, and if you wanted to live off a webcomic, you had to make it AND make the site to post it on AND pay for the site AND pay to advertise it. And it was really hard and people still did it, are still doing it. Now you can post on several sites for free and also advertise for free thanks to social media. The process is a lot easier now. But in exchange there's more competition.

So maybe keep that in perspective before you go accusing vast numbers of the site's users of being jealous haters who deliberately ignore comics they feel threatened by??

Unfortunately things in life aren't fair. Webcomics have a large degree of luck involved. If the right person with even a small amount of influence notices your series and spreads the word it can cascade into much more.

Features aren't really what they are hyped up to be. We worked like crazy for a year trying to get a feature and never did. Finally a summer intern picked one of our series for a Spotlight. We though it would be a game changer... it really wasn't. Three days on the homepage doesn't do as much as you would expect, considering that most desktop readers only visit a few times a month.

Yes, the Spotlight gave us a bunch of subs and views for a short period of time but many of them unsubscribed in the weeks that followed.

Don't beat yourself up over not getting a feature. It's not worth the mental anguish.

We have the 3/10ths rule. You'll only get about 3/10ths back in return for what you put out. For example, we quarterbacked a review about Tapas in a digital magazine. The article featured nine webcomics on Tapas. You'd think creators would be super thankful... we got three thank yous private messaged and one of the three did a fan art as a special thanks. That's all... for something that took 15-20 hours to make happen.

You can like/comment/promote other creators work, but always keep in mind that it's a gift. Don't expect anything in return. Otherwise you will end up seriously hurt and very disappointed.

Having spent thousands on ads we can tell you that most ads do not do anything. Your best performing ads are Google Adwords, Project Wonderful, and TopWebComics $1 Daily Sponsorship.

Basically you could compare it to flirting up that girl you like. You can give her gifts, attention, be there for her when she's sad, help her with her struggles etc but none of it means she owes you sex.

Similarily, you can advertise your comic, you can network, you can submit your work to publishers etc but none of it means anyone owes you their readership, a contract, their platform, their time, anything.

You do this willingly and if you think the rewards aren't enough for your input, then that's on you. Or you know, maybe you could just keep doing this because you genuinely care and like doing it, regardless of whether you go big or not. That way, there are no disappointments.

.... /ramble

So what's the conclusion?

Ads don't work, features don't work, nothing works.

Quit, is what I'm hearing.

How targeted were these ads? I'm planning to place ads for my fantasy series on fantasy webcomics and maybe some sci-fi webcomics if the budget allows.

In other words you can be entirely worthy and still not get chosen, because it's their choice and not yours.

Nobody's saying you should quit. Would you like my opinion on your comic though? It's a good-new-bad-news sort of thing.