An alternative interruption of Disney's Wish

[NickRowler]

Wish isn't a princess movie. But it does have the genetic feel of a Disney Junior show, similar to Sofia the First.

My OP was more about public domain and people being creative. And how I wish people would not act like Disney is the be all, end all of creativity.

I know this might turn into people recycling internet discourse about the movie. People can discuss what they want, even if it is something that does give me a headache.

[voskhodart]

Wish might not technically be a princess movie, but the point is that it follows the exact same formula that Tangled started. Quirky/dorky young woman (with a face barely distinguishable from every other 3D Disney princess) saves her kingdom alongside her super marketable animal friend.

And I don’t really think anyone sees Disney as the sole monolith of animation and creativity. They’ve just been a huge powerhouse of animation ever since their renaissance period. Like everything, of course, powerhouses rise and fall. Disney was groundbreaking in the infancy of animation, then fell to the sidelines as studios like Warner Brothers became more popular and Disney started making less enjoyable films, then returned to being the top of the game in the 80s. These kinds of cycles are defined more by popular opinion than the opinions of people who are more familiar with animation. Disney doesn’t dominate the animation industry like they used to, but your average person doesn’t know or care about that. They associate Disney with animation (and theme parks, and other things Disney has been doing poorly lately, lol) because it’s a massively popular company that has historically pushed out some of the most impressive animated films of all time.

Disney is just money-motivated on all fronts right now. They have been for a long time, but Wish just happens to be one of the worst signs of it. Disney doesn’t take risks or make commentary about their own failings, as nice as that would be.

[NickRowler]

This might be a bit of a controversial take, but I think the recent outrage criticism and the nitpick nature of social media is what sort of ruined the movie.

I feel like it's biggest sin is that it tries to be so PC and inoffensive that it comes off as something for toddlers. There is nothing edgy or daring or controversial about the story plot of the movie outside of just being poorly written. Like I am not sure how this film even got a PG rating.

This could be a bit of "Too many cooks ruined the stew".

It's sort of a same because I can see North African influence in the design of the movie. If the film had the balls to go all out with making a story set in Morocco, that would have helped it get some footing. But I can also see how some Americans would be very critical of that.

[MK_Wizard]

Honestly, I can't help, but feel like the karma of losing ownership of itself is Disney's divine punishment for making bad decisions and getting greedy. It wanted to own everything (Marvel, Star Wars, etc.) and now... it's losing everything slowly but surely including that which theirs to begin with.

At the same time, I'm sad and I have no doubt that Walt is watching all of this unfold and is crying. For all his flaws, what became of his legacy and life's work is a tragedy that no one deserves. He gave the world a gift and people squandered it. My hope is that people in the public domain will redeem Disney's image.

[NickRowler]

Disney wasn't the only one fighting for the copyright. I know that these new laws will also effect Warner Brothers (Looney Tunes and the Wizard of Oz) and Universal (who owns the old Monster films).

[KevinReijnders]

Walt Disney himself was far from a saint. I doubt he'd be 'crying' over what the company has become. It may produce lackluster movies and shows these days, but it is the culmination of what Disney wanted. Complete control.

Disney learned one important lesson with Oswald the Lucky rabbit, strife for ownership. The company's tendency to own everything under the sun and extend copyright was woven within the DNA of the company from the very start.

Exploiting the creative staff too btw, there wasn't a labour strike scene in Dumbo for no reason.

[MK_Wizard]

If that's the case, then that breaks my heart even further. Disney is the reason I got into drawing and drawing Mickey Mouse is how I found my passion just at four years old (I'm 39 now).

[NickRowler]

Yeah, it's sort of strange how mythologized Walt Disney has become. I remember reading how the studio was always near bankruptcy. A lot of their films under preformed with Fantasia being a financial disaster.

Added budget cuts to later films. Mr. Toad being half done was packaged with another half done film, if Disney pulled anything like that now a days, it was be dragged by everyone.

Walt Disney also sort of giving up on animated films at one point and prioritizing live-action.

I do like Davy Crockett film (yes I know there is stuff that hasn't aged well) but it is also just a color version of the TV show packaged as a film.

Then there is The Reluctant Dragon which is just propaganda.

[ThunderChicken]

I haven’t seen Wish… come to think of it I haven’t seen any Disney/Pixar films since Luca, and even that was “it’s raining, I’m bored, Disney+ is showing it”… but I have noticed a distinct downhill spiral in the quality of their work. To me it seems like they’re Microsofting it right now: if you can’t create, buy somebody who can.

@NickRowler is 100% right about their lack of 2d (or 3D/2D (which I would take as meaning a traditional “flat” animation style but done using CGI) stuff while others keep doing it. Bad Guys was a 3D/2D hybrid that had amazing visuals and a pretty good story. Meanwhile I feel like Disney is just pumping shit out because it is obligated to its shareholders to pump shit out.

I guess Wish was doomed from the start though. We’ve all seen the memes showing an astoundingly bad product and the caption “When you buy your xxxx from Wish”…

[KevinReijnders]

If that's the case, then that breaks my heart even further. Disney is the reason I got into drawing and drawing Mickey Mouse is how I found my passion just at four years old (I'm 39 now).

Well they don't "never meet your heroes" for no reason.

Yeah, it's sort of strange how mythologized Walt Disney has become.

I'm honestly not that surprised. Walt maintained a pretty well kept public persona, one that Disney the company still upholds to this day, with a near religious zeal. You will raraely find anyhting bad about the man, so over time it's no wonder we're stuck with the mythologized version of him.

[NickRowler]

Saving Mr. Banks is a good example of this. The film isn’t targeted at kids yet the company felt the need to remove the fact that Walt Disney was a smoker.

They also showed him as being this wholesome guy who just wanted to have fun while making PL Travers a lonely shrew.

In reality, Travers had had relationships with women. And she had a child. I get the feeling she might have been a bit overwhelmed and concerned about the company messing with her book. Walt was very stubborn about her requests. She was ultimately unhappy with the final film.

[KennethLopezJr921]

A dunking Disney thread? Im in!

I haven't actually seen Wish yet but from what I've heard about it, its not good. Honestly, its kind of ironic and sad to see their 100th year anniversary film flop like this, and the company's 100th year being marked with their biggest failures in a single year, capped off with them loosing the rights to Steam Boat Willie. However, I feel like the company had it coming. They've been lazy and complacent for a couple of years now and it was only a matter of time when people would get tired of their shameless bastardizations of their classic movies (Hot take: Disney direct to video movies > live action remake junk) and their mid as hell animated features (only referring to Disney Animation Studios and not Pixar). And funny enough, this downfall started happening when the MCU went to shit, which kind of shows that without Marvel bringing the company success, the cracks that have always been there are become more and more clear. Not to say I dont feel bad about the creatives and artists at Disney, since the real blames falls on the ceo and business executives running the shots.

[voskhodart]

(Hot take: Disney direct to video movies > live action remake junk)

Oh hey, those things are actually deeply connected! I highly recommend checking out that video for a full look at Disney's weird relationship with home video. My favorite theory from it is that the live-action remakes are basically just Disney's new way of releasing content "from the vault" as they used to with VHS and DVD. Re-releasing well-known videos on tape or disc made a ton of money, especially in comparison to original movies released for at-home viewing. It isn't especially popular to re-release movies in theaters anymore, so instead, they just re-release them... IN LIVE ACTION! And for a while, they did do pretty darn well. But now the live-action remake trend is dying off, and Disney's original films aren't doing so hot either. (I do think their poor marketing has been to blame for some of the recent flops, but that's a whole different tangent to go on.) Wish just feels like a big culmination of Disney's recent brand of greediness and stagnation tbh.

[NickRowler]

I think the cracks were there a lot earlier. There were issues with the launch of both Star Wars Land and Disney Plus which causes a large lose from the company. I think the company had a bit of a bubble and suffered from "Too big to fail". I think their issue is they expect all of their films to be the next End Game or Avatar 2, grossing billions of dollars. So they claim they will spend more hoping that cost will be made up in the box office or merch sales.

I also feel like Frozen 2 was both a blessing and a curse. It was an example of a film made on crunch yet the film came out looking beautiful and people enjoyed it. The plot wasn't anything too amazing but good enough if you were someone who enjoyed the first film. I feel like that just made Disney assume that crunch is good and successful.

I think same with Disney Plus. The company might know that films will under preform in theaters and they will make up the loses on streaming. Which unfortunately might be the future of Disney animated films.

Personally, when it comes to what I want out of Disney, is not for them to stretch themselves so thin. I think it is also worth putting more investment into TV/streaming animated shows. I feel like that format allows more more variety of stories and styles without the pressure of putting all their eggs in one basket.

I also want Disney to stop changing stories to make them more "merch" friendly. Disney took a huge lose in 2023 from all the unsold crap no one wanted.

[KennethLopezJr921]

I agree with......well everything in your post XD

I think the company had a bit of a bubble and suffered from "Too big to fail"

BUT MOSTLY THIS!!!!!!! Looking the budgets for all of Disney's budgets this year, all of them were Endgame level with how much money costed and how much money they expected to earn back. Like, I don't know how something like Ant Man 3 costed a billion dollars despite the film looking like garbage. They really need to shrink their budgets down and lower their expectations and.......possibly give more creative freedom to the artists working under them so their movies feel like "movies" again and not just content that's chewed and spat out.

[KevinReijnders]

The budgets ballooning to these exorbitant amounts is a Hollywood-wide problem. Every movie these days is a blockbuster, needing to make nearly a billion dollars to break/even. An insane proposition, considering thia means they expect the average moviegoer to see a movie nearly once or twice a month! With the cost of every day life rising, no one is spending their money on this sheer act of greed.

As for why the movies look like trash, that's because VFX artist are pushed to the breaking point and the studios put against each other for barely any pay. I think it was last year or the year before, while a movie was praised for its VFX and claimed many awards, the studio behind it was filing or bankrupcy. So yeah, the VFX studios are treated like shit and that's why your movies look like shit.

None of this is going to change any time soon btw. With more and more of the market share being consolidated in fewer and fewer players, less and less risks will be taken. Bland and boring will continue to be the norm, it has to appeal to as many people as possible. How else to recup on those ridiculous budgets.

Though, 1 silver lining. 2023 was an aweful year for the entire film industry. Disney alone lost almost a billion dollars. That might be the catalyst for positive change in the industry.

[Chronomel]

Why do you think that people who want Disney to do 2d don't support 2d animated films? They seem like they're the most likely to do it if anything. You literally don't know anything about what a person supports just by their opinions on Disney, based on the evidence it makes sense to assume they're a big fan of 2d works. And Disney gets alot of focus because they're by far the most influential and popular studio, and if they popularize 2d animation again, it would benefit smaller 2d animated projects

[NickRowler]

A lot of the original Disney 2D animation studios have been gutted. And they currently don’t have a team of trained 2D animators like they did back in the day. I am glad they still do 2D animatics and 2D animation for some of their shows.

I think ideally a 2D animated film (if Bob’s Burgers doesn’t count) from Disney would be cool but I am worried it would look like the animated section of Enchanted or good lord Descendants: The Royal Wedding. You can tell that they are definitely using digital technology to cut corners.

I do think 2D animation would have made Elemental more bearable, I did feel the 3D design of the film was just unpleasant to look at. But when it comes to Strange World or Wish, the issue is the stories just weren’t good.

[KevinReijnders]

Sorry, but Enchanted's 2D animation looks really good, pretty much like a classic Disney film. That Descendants thing, sure, looks crap, but I figure that's a low budget production anyway.

Also I wanna say that 2D animation these days is digital. The best and the worst of it. It's faster and more efficient than the old pencil and paper or cell animation. You will be hard pressed to find a studio out there that doesn't use digital techniques to animate their film or series. Even studio Ghibli is digital these days!

[NickRowler]

I personally do not like the animation in Enchanted. I feel like it has the vibe of the old princess movies but there is something that’s just off. Maybe it’s the filters they overlayed it with.

I remember seeing it in theaters as a teenager and even back then I didn’t like it but still being hopeful that it’s better than nothing.