Any secret thought/opinion on making comics that you know is not popular?

[ble]

Do you have any opinion about the proccess of making comics (or just comics in general) that you know is not a popular opinion, and 90% of people would say "that sounds so wrong / that way of thinking is bad"?

Hopefuly this is a safe place where you won't get judged too much for having a contrarian opinion. Put yours.

So, here is mine:

Summary

If you ask most people why they make comics, the most popular answer is: "because i want to tell a story". I don't think that's my case. I made comics, because when i only did art in sites like deviantart or social media, no one cared about my art. Of all the places in the internet, i only have an audience in webtoons, because my art is part of a comic. My art is not good enough to reach an audience on it's own, so it needs a story. Even if i've been told that my story is kinda meh lol. It is still true that i never got an audience before i paired my art with a story.

That's why i don't know if i should even make comics in the first place, if i care more about the art aspect, and not necesary comic art stuff (like panels, or having to keep drawing the same characters, be worried about different poses or backgrounds and stuff). If my art was on the level of the artists i admire and i could just make a living with my art, i think i won't do comics. So i'm well aware my opinion is not a popular one in a place or a medium where the concensus is "story > art".

[Kylano]

I don't really see the problem with your opinion on the matter. People don't value your art when it stands alone, so you're forcing them into a situation where they'll notice and hopefully zero in on the aspects you value most. Your way of thinking is hardly any different from a person getting a job because they want money, not because that's where their heart is, or someone buying a car to show off as a bragging piece, not to get from point A to B.

So long as you're not trying to displace others' pieces and put them down maliciously, why does it matter WHY you made the story rather than WHAT you get out of it. If you meet your goal and don't have to tear down anyone along the way, I don't particularly see any issue.

For me:

Summary

I want to be noticed. I want people to see the ideas I have and commiserate or empathize with the scenarios I imagine or create. They aren't necessarily new, or amazing, but I would love to be noticed for my aptitude instead of being pushed aside because it's not mainstream.

You keep doing what you do.

[ble]

Yes, that's what i was trying to say, you put my thoughts in a better way than i could.

That's why i'm not much of a writer lol, but yeah that's it. If my audience likes it, i think is ok.

[Kylano]

If you think that much is fine, then go with it. Never doubt yourself unless pushing yourself ahead is hurting someone else as well. Even then, you have to think of the pros and cons that might go along with that, and whether it's actually worth it to burn all of those bridges.

[pigiearts]

i think why i make comics and why i choose to publish them are two different things.

Summary

i make them because i genuinely want to. i have a ton of stories and ideas and characters in my head, i love playing around with them and create stories. i tried filmmaking for a bit, but there's too many components in filmmaking to make it satisfactory for me. writing and drawing is better that way.

i publish them because, yeah, same, i want the attention! i crave validation. i do genuinely hope people enjoy what i put out, and i don't expect everyone to love it (especially at the level i'm at right now - i have lots to learn), but those likes and comments are a bit of a serotonin rush, lol.

[joannekwan]

People complain about the corporate rat race, but I feel like the indie creative rat race is even worse.
At least with corporate you have a steady paycheck.

[darthmongoose]

If the genres and themes you like making the most are also genres and themes that are currently in-fashion and profitable, you need to understand that you're really, really lucky and if other creators of comparable skill are struggling, it's insensitive to sweep this under the rug and just tell them to work hard because that's the secret to their success. It's important to factor in things like luck, trends, charisma, marketing and privilege into "who gets to be a full-time professional comics creator," it's really not the case that success correlates directly to quality or effort. Some creators will always have to labour away on things they care about less to pay the bills because their works of passion won't, so if you're lucky enough to make your living on your dream comic, appreciate what you have, dammit!

[pigiearts]

i feel like this could tie into the concept of "selling out" too - idk how common a term that is within this community, but it certainly is elsewhere. people need to make money! if that means sponsorships/doing a job outside of their passion, then so be it! chase that paper, like. we live in a capitalistic hellscape

[DasIstWunderblyat]

There are already too many of us.
I wish there were not

Summary

Also I dislike it when professional and more successful creators whine and cry about how hard it is to be them, and they wish to go back to times when they are less popular. Saying that all it brings are isolation, pressure, and doubts.
Well, just fucking do it. Quit your shit, have another job, and work on your passion project on the scrap of your times without any recognition, acknowledgement, or cash like the rest of us. Everything has its consequences so is your success, suck it up or be loser like us.

[liamnaughton7]

This grinds my gears esspecially. Between night shift and kids I'm barely getting any time at all to work and I would personally kill if I could work from home and spend more time with my kids. Sleeping like an actual human person wouldn't be bad either.

[But_a_Jape]

As someone who has been involved in the corporate rat race, I'd like to add some extra context to this. The "rat race" mentality is often completely mental, if you simply choose not to participate in the race (i.e. not concern yourself with whether or not you're "ahead") you may already be in a position where you can be comfortable with the stability your current position offers. That was where I eventually landed with my old job and it gave me such a level of freedom that I simply saw it as a means of letting me enjoy my passions without worrying about survival.

And then almost everyone in our department got laid off no matter what position they held in the race. And then a global pandemic essentially froze everyone's economic status in place or worse.

The average worker in the creative industry typically can't just settle in whatever position they're currently in, which makes me regularly wish I had started on my creative endeavors more seriously when I had my old corporate job. It seems like the only opportunities they have for "settling" is if they basically win the lottery and get a million dollar publishing deal.

[Shanny8]

That to be a famous comic artist/creator you must go through the old "gatekeeping" channels of soliciting your comic to a mega-large distributor like Diamond...

No you dont. All you need is an audience that loves your work and want you to succeed- AND the internet. You can use POD companies to make your own books, and put yourself out there at conventions as well. You can also develop/use streaming platforms to showcase your work and build an even larger audience...

[Shanny8]

Right now I'm grumbling coz I feel all sorts of burned out just from my day job, but I am grateful coz having extra money from working my day gig to support my comics endeavors have kept me sane & happy the last 5 years.

[skicoak]

A different point of view...

My other art hustle, that pays the bills, has managed to start siphoning away too much of my time and creative energy. As a result, my efforts for the Oddly Vanilla collective have really been slow and we're updating so infrequently now. It's the end of the year and I feel creatively burnt out working on stuff for others...instead of investing more into the projects I care about.

It feels like I have stopped betting on me and am just accepting mercenary gigs that have NO chance of getting me to future goals.

I need to find a better balance in 2021.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

Okay.

My hot take is
It's okay to not have a plan. It's okay to jump in with no experience. It's okay to start a big project first without any prior comics under your belt.

I don't like hearing "Make a small comic first or else you'll never make it and you'll burn out." Dagnabbit, all I want to do is make a huge comic, and then make smaller ones that tie into the big one. I'm aware it's going to take time, tears, and blood to make it work.

[BrambleberrySquirrel]

I actually really agree with your opinion here. Making a comic started as a way to force myself to stick to a weekly schedule and make art regularly so I could improve as an artist. I like being able to tell a story, but the art is more important to me than the narrative. There’s no way I’d have nearly as many people enjoying my art if it wasn’t packaged with that narrative though.

[ar-ninetysix]

I actually agree with this, even though I tend to recommend making shorter stuff! My issue's actually with not knowing exactly what you're aiming for, you know? If you got a plan, good on you. If you wanna improvise the whole way, good on you. If you wanna have a rough idea of where you're going, good on you. Just be in control what you're making, know your limits and all that

[Macarenaoftime]

I personally think making comics it's not the best way to improve general art skills.
From my experience, by making comics you learn skills that are very specific to well...make comics.
You may learn how to color faster and cleaner, to make your characters more appealing, to do lettering, to find a proper pacing, to draw clear silhouettes, to do paneling right, etc. But basic things like anatomy or even lighting....not so much?
Some things are better to learn by carefully and slowly observing and analyzing and not by trying to tell stories (especially on a weekly basis).

[nathanKmcwilliams]

Here's the thing. I know that a lot of people do need to do comics the way I don't like. And that's okay. But don't disparage the few of us that do things contrary to the majority.
You never know who's going to be successful.
There's so many factors. I mean...look at Toriyama. Probably the most successful pantser in the business XD

But yes. I agree it is very important to understand that good storytelling isn't just something you vomit out willy nilly. I still think it's important to have an outline and to have other people take a look at your drafts.
The only reason I don't have an editor is because I wouldn't be able to afford it. But at the very least I can ask people to beta read you know?

[Caro]

Gosh, I agree with this so much!

Early on in my career I was offered a gig for a comics company that shall be unnamed for a graphic novel for a cartoon property that shall also remained unnamed and I was.... absolute trash at making comics at this point (okay maybe still). I only said no because I was against their low page rates.

Years later I looked back at this companies work and noticed they hired a LOT of popular illustrators who did not draw comics at all and it reallly, really showed.
For some of them it was their first comic! They hadn’t been able to capture what made their illustrations so good in the comic format yet let alone have a grasp on any of the other more technical comics-specific aspects. A lot of these ended up looking kind of.... amateurish? You would never guess their work outside of comics was very polished and professional looking it was honestly baffling.

I think about this a lot and maybe I should check in with some of these artists and see what they’re up to these days