Are we a bit "subscribe crazy"?

[keii4ii]

I've noticed that lately, the types of posts dedicated to self-promotion and questions about achieving popularity have peaked

It's always been like that as far as I can tell XD

Instead of wondering 'How can I improve to get people interested in my story?'

To be honest, I've been hesitant to ask even that because it might look like I just want more subscribers.

[69Michi]

Aye, yeah I'm all for an active fanbase/reader than a large amount of subs with little to no communication between me and my readers. I feel like that sort of thing just to contribute into people's pride. The bigger your subs count, the better to brag about it, or something of that line LMFAO To a lot of people, it just makes them feel good about their works looking at a large numbers that give them no /negative/ feedback than taking in constructive but often pointing out one's flaws feedbacks from a smaller but more active subs count.

I do self-promo once in awhile but overall I'm just a chill and lazy person who just sit back and let my art speak for itself. Though I also understand the important of supporter because I do commission and sell arts online too, the more people know about me, the better for my work.

[TristanJensen]

Personally I'm more worried about losing the ones I have. But I can see why some people would want to try that method for getting more, people will always think there's a faster way to get somewhere, and they have a good reason to think that. I've seen comics with pretty average art and writing climb the charts while smaller ones with great art kind of linger bellow. I've tried to give shutouts to those because honestly I'd rather see them above me than below*...

Isn't the whole point creating your story because you need it to be told or maybe train your skills?

This is EXACTLY why I make comics right here.

[shazzbaa]

Aye, yeah I'm all for an active fanbase/reader than a large amount of subs with little to no communication between me and my readers.

I mean, sure, but usually it's the opposite -- the more readers you have, the greater the percentage of people who want to comment and interact. Wanting a bigger readership isn't always about "I WANNA SEE A BIG NUMBER," sometimes it's just "I really want to see more people engage with this story, and I want to figure out how to get more readers who will."

So I dunno about it always being for the wrong reasons. What I do see is people who have a lot of expectations that aren't realistic, and they don't know it. I remember one thread where someone said "I know it's not easy, but it shouldn't be this hard!" to which creators responded, "No, it actually is this hard, this is normal." Many people have no concept of how long it takes to get known in the field of webcomics, and so younger creators feel behind when it takes them a long time.
And I think that's kinda true everywhere, in every field -- we have the concept of a "Ten Year Overnight Success" because someone who's been working hard for years will still be perceived as an "overnight success" when people suddenly hear of them, and we don't realise how long it took them to get there.

The amount of threads on the subject is frustrating, but I get where it comes from. I don't think it's all people who want to cheat... it's mostly young artists who think they've missed something. That other people know a trick that they don't know. They just don't realise that most of the time the trick is "update consistently for 4 years."
Though I do sometimes wonder if being able to see subscriber numbers is hard on new, young creators, just because it makes you feel like you're supposed to have an audience. I wonder if that's contributing to making some feel that something's wrong if they don't have one yet.

IS there a line, a number, after which a creator can be content? I think this opens a good discussion about creating comics online and the purpose for it. Do we all have to be on top (an impossible feat) to be considered successful? Is and should your self-worth as an artist be entirely dependent on a number?

The question strikes me as feeling more all-or-nothing than creators really are. Like, I would continue to tell my story even if I never got another subscriber -- but I would still be excited to get more subscribers. I really want to make it to 1000! Does that mean I'm not content until I reach that arbitrary number? Of course not! It just means I want to grow, and I set myself a little goal to hope for because goals are motivating for me. Is the number the sole definition of my worth? No, of course not! But it is kind of cool to have a sorta tangible measurement of readership to look at.

I don't think it's ignoble to have an audience and still aim to grow!

[sorrelma]

I've been seeing "Why won't Tapastic promote me? Tapastic doesn't care about creators." or weirder "Why won't popular artists promote me?"

this attitude frustrates me so because tbh tapastic has great response time for feedback and the team does a lot to help out with making the site run + accommodating both readers and creators. it's actually super refreshing(for me at least) to see staff that care so much about users ESPECIALLY creators !! it seems so rude and dismissive to say they don't do enough for not promoting every comic but i see this attitude so much ;;

i understand the desire for attention. everyone feels that. of course i want more subscribers and more validation; at the same time, i've been running webcomics for a long time and i understand that part of it is successful marketing, part is quality content, and part is luck. there isn't an.. exact equation for success per se - but people will still go looking for it. i can't really blame them. i think it happens in any industry.
but also i mean... you have to remember that every subscriber you gain is a person(or a bot) they have their own lives and their own projects(or binary code) so you can't expect everyone in the world to drop everything and kiss your feet, esp if you're not putting out good work and you're not trying to improve !

[carloswebcomic]

Well, of course people are subscriber crazy. It's the reason most people are here.
If you put your comic on the internet, it's because you want an audience.
Subscriber numbers gives you a tangible number to asses how well (or badly) you're doing.

Unfortunately, getting subscribers is hard as there is a lot of competition. People are already doing the best they can and not getting the numbers, so they begin to feel that they are doing a lot of work with no return, hence the "how do I get more subscribers?" threads.
People hope for a magic solution to satisfy their hunger for validation.

[alaingrey]

Yeah 100%. I've had some friends trying to make an art site and their terrible management really makes me appreciate how forward thinking tapastic is, even if it's just a small site and small team.

I think what people don't realize is that staff curates, and curating means not giving everything the time of day. Some comics don't need to be featured because they're not of a quality that deserves promotion, and I think it's hard for people to see beyond what they imagine they're creating. So yeah, staff does a great job of highlighting those that are deserving, and though it may seem harsh, if you're not deserving, you just need to examine and possibly change what you're making. not saying it's easy to do, or even to come to terms with the possibility you might need to do something, but that's how your art gets better, not by begging for attention.

[69Michi]

the more readers you have, the greater the percentage of people who want to comment and interact.

Statistically speaking, yes, but I have experienced a lot of inactive watcher/subscriber throughout the years to know that bigger number doesn't mean more people would be interacting sadly : ( But to be honest to myself, it always feels good to have a large number of audience.

Most people I saw posting those kinds of question are either too hasty, haven't been doing webcomic for long, or generally... just lazy to search up on other 82390213 topics that are of the same topic already existed in the forum. This is why I can see where the frustration seeing those topics keep popping up came from.

[Michelle]

That attitude drives me nuts! Why should an artist you don't know randomly promote you? If I promote someone's work it's because I love their work, or they're a friend of mine. I'm not going to promote some rando with a mediocre comic who might lose interest after a few weeks...

I feel like a lot of creators seriously overlook the value in making genuine connections with other artists. So many people are focused only on getting more eyes on their own work, that they only ever promote themselves. But there's a lot of value to be had in supporting your fellow artists and their work and not always crying "MEMEME!!".

But, like you said, people shouldn't go badgering random popular artists to promote their stuff! If you make genuine connections with people, they'll be more likely to help you out. And the stuff you learn from other artists feeds back into improving your own comics which in turn leads to more readers. :>

[indagold]

I guess anyone likes exposure but when it comes to being a self centered pile of garbage things are different. I see already people on who are popular artists bitch and whine they wish they were more popular or people who don't have patience and go apeshit after posting their comic after 5 seconds and wondering why they don't have 5000+ suscribers. Also people who seem to suck and have little skill always mistaking their ability as better and become rather narcissistic over their perceived aptitude. They seem like the type to get really obsessed over subscriber count.
This applies everywhere though. I see it nearly on all art and writing sites.

[Greg_Dickson]

I'm going to chime in now, because I know that I've made a post or two, relating to the topic. I did make a couple of suggestions in a previous closed thread on ways I thought small creators could find a way to get more noticed. Among them, yes, I did mention that it would have been nice to have some kind of thread where larger creators could check into smaller creators comics, see if there's anything they genuinely would like to promote, and maybe take a minute or two to chime in. However, I never said it with the tone to guilt trip anyone. In fact, I specifically said I was making my suggestion with the intention not to guilt trip anyone or place a blame on anyone.

I've been thinking about this more today, and now that I really have taken some time to mull it over...the cause for a lack of views may just be because summer is here. Aren't kids now getting out of school, and everyone doesn't want to spend their time inside reading webcomics? Granted, I have been discouraged today, but I also know that fame doesn't come in a day. We do create for ourselves, but I do believe that we all create for others to take joy in our creations too. I think we all come here with a dream to grow, and the way it is, some grow faster than others. I think that some people get frustrated seeing their work come to a standstill. I know that I've done everything possible for my comic so far since I've started. Release content weekly, be vocal in forums and in comments in other people's comics, and I even went as far as to set up a twitter account and learn how to use it. But despite all of that, I may have currently hit my viewer/sub peak. But after reading this thread, I've noticed that this hump I'm stopped at won't improve until I release a lot more content. I had a good talk with Kayke today, and she made a good point to me. When you start your comic, if you don't have many pages, it's like only having the content of the first 5 minutes of a movie. As good as it may be, it's still only a short amount. People haven't gotten the chance to know or to be invested in your characters and story yet.

I've really learned a lot today after all of these threads and discussions. I'm not going to lie, there are still some feelings of discouragement. It's only natural. But there have also been feelings of hope given to me. Despite how hard and discouraging it may be, I'm going to be strong and see this through. Because in the end, my comic is for me, and hopefully when it picks up steam someday, I'm hoping it can be for some of you too.

[miseryhunting]

Well, of course people are subscriber crazy. It's the reason most people are here.

This isn't necessarily true! Remember - a large part of Tapastic users readers only! I didn't pick Tapastic because I thought I would get more subscribers or hoped o get numerous followers, but because it's easy to use and lets me keep track of the other comics I'm reading. It was more for the atmosphere than any ambitions. The very decision to post in here is already upping your chances to find an interested audience as you know this is a comic focused platform used by comic fans.

If your work is good, it's gonna speak for itself. But number of subs is such an unreliable information! Many quality works have very small following, in fact, my 2 favourite comics don't have more than 300 subs, which is small compared to the more popular creators. People unfollow for so many different reasons like number of notifications, specific/problematic topic of the comic, unnatural flow, etc.
So people expecting subs to reflect their "talent level" is unrealistic.

I don't mind people enjoying getting followers or putting some small goals for themselves, but as I mentioned in previous posts, if your wish to get subscribers out weights your desire to actually tell the story, maybe you're doing this for all the wrong reasons.

[Kura]

In my personal experience, the ones most vocal or frustrated or confused about my lack of subscribers are my readers and friends/family. It seems to be a point that comes up in my comments section or in conversations a lot.

"Why are your sub numbers so low?"
"I don't understand why this is not more popular."
"You need to do something to get your numbers up, I've seen some really trash comics with three times the number as you."
"You need more subs."
"How do so little people KNOW about this comic????"
"You're doing something wrong Kura, how are you subs so low?"
"What the hell is with this lack of support?"
"Why is your subcount so low???"
"You REALLY need to do something about your subs."

And yeah, when you're asked that question so constantly all the time you really do start to question 'what am I doing wrong?' even when I usually don't really care too much about numbers as long as the $money$ numbers I'm getting from the comic are not taking a dive and are still able to help with the bills. Though it is nice that a lot of people I know, and readers that I only know as readers, want me to do well and succeed. That flatters me, really it does.

[mappypaint]

I remember when I started uploading my comic online and wanted to have a big subs number, but I never begged for subs from other people. As the years go by I learned that subs/fan count is just a number, and my motivation changed from subscriber numbers to just doing my thing. I've already accepted that my art style, story, etc. won't attract those really high subs numbers, but i'm happy that I just do what I like, something different. I already told people in one of the many other subs thread that my subscriber numbers is struggling only to people who cares so much about subs. If they are after subs then they can just do the same things the popular ones do or do something mainstream.

[Mharz]

I think it's natural for creators to want to have more subs. You know, the more subs you have, the higher percentage/chance you can gain support (monetary and emotionally) at least statistically. But sub numbers should NEVER be the basis of an artists' credibility/validity. Especially if you're just starting out.

At the end of the day, these numbers isn't something people can control and there are no methods/cheats/tricks that are available. So I just accepted that fact and just focus on stuffs I can control: producing more content and market them best as I could. If more people reads then cool!

"My comic ONLY has 20 subs and it's been up for a week? CLEARLY there's a mistake here, I mean, MY comic is GORGEOUS and it SHOULD have 1000+ subs by now!"

That is totally expecting way too much especially if there's only like 5 pages uploaded to the public (Unless you accidentally became viral which is like 0.0001% chance).

I think 20 subs within a week is pretty good progress IMO. I'd be lucky if I gain one in a week.

If they are after subs then they can just do the same things the popular ones do or do something mainstream.

Agree. Just look at the trending stuffs on twitter and then just do a comic/art about it. I doubt you can be true to yourself doing that but it'll definitely gain some traction (probably).

[kkitty]

Really the best advice I can give is networking, and that's just what people are doing here.

But the part B to that that everyone seems to miss is 'do not look desperate'.

[AnnaLandin]

I've seen several people complaining about lack of subscribers while their story/art development is going nowhere and some of the questions asked on how to gain subscribers sound a bit like trying to cheat (aka "give me formula of how I can get people to follow me").

This is an attitude you run across all the time, in nearly every creative field. On Tapastic, it's mainly focused on getting subscribers, because that's an integral part of the site, but you see it elsewhere in other forms - all those people asking talented artists "what's the trick?" as if there's some cheat-code to artistic skill other than "study and practise" applied over a long, long time - or all those people asking successful indie game-devs for the trick to how to "make it", as if there's some secret godmode to being an overnight success.^

No one likes to hear that there is no magic trick or cheat-code to getting good and/or popular - the same way no one likes to hear that most diets aren't gonna make you lost x pounds in y weeks. We like things to be easy and involve a minimum of effort, even though most things are hard and involve a lot of blood, sweat and tears. If there is a magic trick, we can blame our failure on our ignorance of that magic trick, instead of looking hard at our own efforts and trying to see what we could be doing better.

I have a big bunch of subscribers, and I appreciate every single one of them - but I'd still be drawing my comic even if I only had 10 subscribers. As long as someone, somewhere, cares enough about the story I'm telling to want to read it, I'll keep going. Heck, I'd probably keep going even if NO ONE was reading it, because I'm a storytelling junkie. I just might not be doing it at the same pace.

Make no mistake - I've days when I wonder what it's all for, and feel useless because I've posted something on, say, Tumblr, and gotten only crickets chirping in response, and sometimes I still do. It's terribly discouraging, because one of the purposes of visual art is, well, that someone looks at the thing - but I've just kept on going anyway.

It's paid off, but it's taken years. Not everyone wants to put in that kind of time and effort.

^) "Overnight success" is a terrible term, because 99% of everyone who becomes an "overnight success" have been working at it steadily for years, you just haven't been watching them.

[eleoza]

Whenever I get a sub I let out a little happy -squee- sound XD I love and appriciate every sub. It motivates me to work harder, the feeling that people like my work is awesome.
So yes, I understand why people want more subs, there are seriously some amazing comics here that don't get the attention they deserve and I can imagine it must be pretty frustration sometimes.
But overal, I personally think that the base of making your comic should be this question "Am I enjoying drawing my comic?" As long as you're excited and happy with what you do, that's important.

[Niles]

When I make comics I make it for myself, and I'm very sure many other creators feel the same way when they start off - To begin with. I've kind of noticed this too and I didn't realise it was like this until I hit the internet with my work. It's all about 'subs' and 'ratings' now and I believe that really, your art cannot be rated - Mainly because you are the artist and only you understand it, it's up to others to interpret it for themselves. When you're building ideas and concepts for a comic the first thing that doesn't come into your head is 'this is my target audience' or 'this is who I want it for', no, normally - and should be - 'this is what I want'. I find it baffling when people ask for subs or like you say, complain. I do see a lot of feedback posts but not as often as you should, you should want more feedback other than those subs, then you can improve and then - Maybe - you'll get the right people following your work. I don't think people understand how hard and competitive this area of work is, it's not about uploading and everyone will think you're a genius and you'll get the babes! No, it's about hard work and improvement, the more you do the more you'll get back!
You shouldn't need appreciation, this is for your own work. If you feel the need to be pat on the back for every little thing you do then you shouldn't be doing this right now. It shows a lack of confidence, yes support, but guide people. That's a lot more important and rewarding for the artists standard - What the hell would happen if someone ripped your comic apart with a 'negative' review? People in these situations will crumble, do nothing, and once again complain - And then get their 'subbers' to make them fill better by reassuring. Yes, people rely too much on those subs. In the real world it isn't about that, it's about your quality and of course - The fun. If you're not enjoying it purely because people aren't looking at your work, then you're in it for the wrong reasons.
Sorry for the rant!!

[KSlinger]

If your work is good, it's gonna speak for itself. But number of subs is such an unreliable information! Many quality works have very small following, in fact, my 2 favourite comics don't have more than 300 subs, which is small compared to the more popular creators.

Some people believe being thin and beautiful will solve all their problems. Some people think having loads of subscribers changes the way things are. It doesn't. And it doesn't matter if you have 100k subs or two dozen if your comic can't hold a candle to the masses of other projects gaining traction across the industry every year. There are some absolutely top quality comics on this website that go unnoticed and some less than fantastic ones I see on the front page every day. It just doesn't matter. It's all relative, and, relatively speaking, this is a very small pond.

Also: there is absolutely a subscriber race going on around here and a crazy obsessive feeling to go with it. Then again it's hard to ignore the over night successes on Tapastic and the fact that the same comics (perhaps shitty ones to your mind) end up on the front page day after day, gathering subs effortlessly and generally mocking you from afar. You could be forgiven for assuming their success was down to 'one weird trick' and searching for it. And I agree, it's an sad attitude to take. But that 'trick' is just plain old luck- or rather catering in every possible way to the masses of people on here. You could generate a wonder comic if you really wanted to, but that wouldn't be your comic. So what's the point?

They'll figure it out and stop worrying about it eventually, but in the meantime let people chat about it and get it off their chest. Their feelings are as valid as anyone else's and they aren't doing any harm. I can tolerate that, and I've been there too. It's just one of those things.