While i agree with you that a portion of artists seemingly do that fake modesty, I believe not every one of them is like that. There's this cycle of improvement within artist's life, in my opinion, that is the practical skill, and the ability to spot mistakes/flaws within their art. I believe that when we can't see what's the problem with an artists who complained about their seemingly perfect arts, maybe they have better/more experienced eyes and ability to spot flaws. It's not entirely fake modesty, it's just with different level of those skills, we have different level of expectation of our arts.
Yeah, depends a bit on context. Maybe I'm sympathetic because I also tend to put down my art a lot--it's genuinely because I see a lot of issues with it though, and I'm always happy to see someone respond with criticism. If someone asked me for feedback on their art I can be equally scathing which is why I rarely give feedback LOL --my philosophy is that if I can't find something really wrong with my art then I'm doing something really wrong
But on the other hand it can get too far. I knew someone who would post a pencil drawing of an eye or whatever, slap 5 filters on top and add a description that goes like "omg this is so terrible I'm sorry you guys have to look at this" and then immediately get super defensive if you try to give them gentle pointers ("oh no it's not bad at all! Maybe if you did x and y it would help make it look more realistic" -> "uh no I think it looks better this way? Do you even draw"). It's like the equivalent of those girls who post a selfie of them lying in bed with full face makeup, dolled up hair and go, "just woke uuup LOL eww sorry my hair is so messy ughh".
I do feel for them though. Often the reason people are so desperate for external validation online is because they haven't received enough in real life. I was definitely like this as a kid and I don't blame anyone for it. At best say something nice, at worst ignore them. Sometimes the best way to make them stop this behaviour is by not pampering them with the validation they crave.
oh yes! That's the point I'm trying to make. Being overcritical is an issue for many of us, is not uncommon. I'm just referring to people who say the work they posted is garbage because it is accidental or quickly made but you see there is a lot of planned work behind the scenes, there is nothing random or accidental about what they post. That just feels like a marketing strategy more than a legitimate self-awareness. Of course, we are not in their heads is hard to know who is fishing for compliments and who is really being critical.
As someone who's run into both types, it's kinda one of those things you figure out the more you know that person (if you get close enough in that way). Cuz again, there can be kinda an overlap of these two types of people.
There are artists I knew who were self-conscious of their work, despite it being objectively good. But they also worked towards getting better with how they approached themselves.
Then...there were artists I knew who were kinda arrogant. Like, I admit, they slightly had the right to be because their art was very much good. But hearing "oh, my art's not that good, it's steaming garbage" from them, knowing the type of person they are and how high they held themselves...yeah, it got annoying.
And while I can be sympathetic to both types of people, the latter tends to stretch my nerves a bit when it gets outta hand. Like... "you and I both actively 110% know you're good -- you don't need to constantly fish for my appreciation".
Yeah, I think it's tough to make that judgement call on who's "obviously faking." You can do your absolute best and still feel like the people out there who are Really Good At This are going to judge you, so you make a lot of excuses.
I do think it's a bad practice -- not because it's "faked modesty," but because it doesn't help your self-esteem as an artist. Trashing your own work is a bad brain space to get into, and it's a tough habit to break. Putting yourself down all the time ends up looking defensive rather than modest, not being willing to let your work speak for itself, and it's not a good look.
But like, lemme get in my own brain space a bit. I'm a good artist. I know this. I'm objectively good at it. But when other people are also good, I see all of my own flaws. I see the things I rushed or the things I probably could've made better with a couple more hours of work. I get insecure and worried that people expected more of me.
Yeah, I know that I'm a good artist. And there are also situations where I can look at someone else's art and know that I'm objectively better at it than they are! If people want advice on art, I'm quick to give it, which means I must believe that I'm skilled enough to have advice worth offering. And yet all of that objective knowledge when I'm in a comfortable space doesn't change the insecurity when I'm sharing something I'm not sure of. Suddenly I have the desire to explain that I know it's not my best, to explain that it's quick and scribbly, because from my perspective -- it is!! It could've been better!! Even when I'm OBJECTIVELY the best artist in the room, there's something in my brain that keeps being convinced that people are going to expect more from me, that they're going to be disappointed in work that I'm not super duper proud of.
This is a tendency I fight in myself, because I know that it's not a good look; I put in a lot of work to not talk down my art. But from my perspective, I promise you, an artist can know that they're good, can be doing good work, and it still doesn't mean that this reaction, this sudden insecurity when you post art, is "faked" in that way.
I'm right there with you up until the worry/insecurity creeps in. I've put a lot of work into understanding my level of artistic develop is only part of a formula that dictates a finished product. Time limitations, client demands, personal health and lots more can all handicap the final product. I try to always make note of the issues then to use a sport's phrase, move on to the next game.
Hm... Unfortunately, I'm not good in reading between lines in social interactions. (˵ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°˵) So I'm often not sure if person "asks for compliment" intentionally, or they sincerely over-criticise their work. Usually I say them something good, just in case. I'm irritated only if it is totally obvious for me that they are asking for attention, which is, again, rare case, because I understand such a things poorly. In this case, I don't say anything.
About effort-consuming drawings, which their creators call garbage... I don't think that if the person have put a lot of effort into drawing, they will necessarily consider it good, and it will not necessarily be objectively good as well. I even can provide the example.
When I've asked for review to my comics, most of reviewers said that in action scenes dynamics is not transmitted, and characters look clumsy and inflexible in them. I'm sure that they are mostly about the first "action scene" (if you can name it that way ):
I think that reviewers are right about it. But reality is, that I've drew and re-drew this scene for many hours during two or three days.
I started to draw it, using the poses from "how to work against the gun" video on the Youtube as the reference. But instead of a gun, I gave her multitool, and added sword to his hand. I hadn't any experience in drawing action scenes at that point, so, I saw that the scene is not dynamic, but my brain didn't understand, what's exactly wrong with it.
I changed different details, like angles of their legs and arms and corpus, bit by bit, so poses changed from those which were in video, but they still remained non-dynamic. I sincerely tried to understand what's wrong, but it was kind of a block. So after I was too tired, I decided to stop working on this "cursed" page and move to the something less stressing.
Only several days after it I have finally understood what's wrong. I compared the pictures of the dudes where they showed the martial arts techniques slowly for learners, and pictures where they used those techniques in fight, to understand, why only the second kind of pictures look dynamic. And I've finally noticed, that the main difference is how the center of gravity of bodies is placed. When they show those techniques slowly, the projection of the center of gravity of their body on the ground remains between their feet. While when they do them quickly, the center of gravity is moving much more freely, according the purpose of moving. This allows them to put their weight into blow or grip, and doing it quickly. But probably people here already know that things so I'll better stop myself now
The point is, that even very time and effort-consuming drawing can give totally unsatisfiable result. So, maybe those dudes who over-criticized their neatly drawings, have seen themselves in the same position...
P.S. By the way, I can't force myself to redraw this picture anymore, even after understanding, because even just looking at this so-many-times-redraw picture causes fatigue.
Yes, it sucks to get stuck in a page, either because of writing the scene or drawing a complicated panel.
And sometimes people are more aware of the flaws of their drawings (it happened to me sometimes, but i don`t mention them when it happens)
If you are interested in making more action scenes in the future, i found an amazing guide on how to make fights look dynamic.
Yeah this is the one that gets me the most. a sketch shouldn't be fully colored with lighting effects, shadows, super clean lineart, and full detailed bg. Like you're not fooling anyone when you call it a sketch XD
It's like the classic "I woke up like this" when the girl has perfectly brushed/styled hair and full on makeup XD
Oh yeah...
"This is a garbage." is my favorite. They don't consider it can also contain a message like "if you don't reach this level your work is also just trash or worse...". So I send a big fuck you to them from my heart. :DD Because many people can feel bad about their posts.
1. why do you post your art if you really think it is garbage? If I think a piece of trash on the floor is a piece of trash I will not grab it and push it another's person face because "he/she might like it...". Even if I know that person and know he/she likes that kind of stuff I won't add "this is garbage." line.
So yeah. Attention seeking. Probably one of the most toxic kinds.
I used to think lowly of my art some time ago (still do), but then spudfuzz (I think it is spudfuzz) said that I shouldn't lowed myself and being too hard on myself like that. And so I try not to do it too often lol.
The thing is I noticed a lotta mistakes on my own art that myself, and seeing how everyone else is doing so very good makes me feels down and adding a speck of jealousy is here makes me feels like art is really is trashy.
See what I mean here? My confidence level is low, and it makes me see everything negatively.
Still trying not to do that much now, but it is indeed become a habit that is hard to erase.
Because if I trash on my work and see it with low opinion, it won't be that hurt anymore when someone else do the same. It's better thinking the scenario of your defeat first hand, than suffer devastation of unforseen disaster.
Like when I say my work is bad and trash on its weaknesses, people would be less harsh because they know I acknowledged that I messed up. I just want to be reassured that it's okay to make mistake.
I have a believe out there, even inside their mind, there are some people are judging me and belittling me. It's very real, I can see in the words they type, how they ignore me, even among you I can see the disdain and waiting for a chance to tarnish me.
In another hand people out there are so much better than me, it kills my self confidence and make me think I should quit or stop thinking I can draw. I feel that I don't deserve to call my work good, except I'm the best at it or other people think of the same.
@kimketli I also want to point a thing, the standard I use for myself to judge my own work ideally should never be used to yours I may think my work as crap, merely because I think I can do better and I'm disappointed with myself and hoping the earth will reclaim me or something. Whether you think you draw better or worse than me, the one I criticize is myself, not you; you shouldn't take it personally.
About the "just a sketch" thing, I have tendency to call my substandard work or one I think lacklustre as a "sketch" despite it has full color and shading. So if people wanna roast it or see many mistakes, they'll be more understanding because "it's just a sketch"
It kind of shallow but I think my faith in self is irreparable, because my effort keeps being betrayed by myself (like I feel confident for a presentation, but in the end I cried because I think I messed up). This is the only way to relief it, to acknowledge you're nothing and rely from others for acceptance.
Well, I do feel really sorry if you think that "Fake modesty" is annoying I try to do less of it... But most of the time it's just come out naturally. It is better than five or four years ago, I swear.
@kainatarma no way!!! I certainly would not think that what you are describing is fake modesty. I put my work down a lot for the same reason you say, I get it. Also, the "just a sketch" acknowledging that is not perfect is a pretty common defense tactic. Some people in the thread are misunderstanding the original post a little to be honest, is not meant to call out people for being insecure or doubtful about their work. Just was to point out that some people use this tactic to fish for support comments. It is hard to explain without concrete examples because I refuse to attack anyone for something that is not even bad (just annoying at times but is not an offense). zuggarts examples are so accurate.
So, I'm sorry the post came across that way, certainly, I would never want anyone to feel uncomfortable for struggling with confidence in your work, I feel the same way. Maybe tomorrow we can post a more positive thread. This community has helped me a lot with my struggles.
I really wish you get better from this kind of state.
I know you don't want to hurt anyone intentionally, but nobody can look into your mind when he/she reads it. I don't say people have to formulate their texts to fit every kind of mind because that is impossible but there is a huge difference between "I think this is really bad now. But maybe you would like it." and "This a garbage.".
Respect your audience with respect that thing you give to them. It does not mean you have to call your work "the best ever". We all have to accept one thing: someone out there is better than us! Yeah. But we don't do it because of we want just likes!
(sidetopic: there is a topic on Reddit, worth to read, good motivation topic. One guy said: "Someone should tell me why should I learn about science if there has already existed such genius like Gauss, I will never ever will be better then him.")
Btw you have the point, people should not take your statement as a self-critic, but people should not do many things but they do unintentionally. We can not think for everyone, but some.
Almost all of us felt similar sometimes we are not in our best(with me it happens all the time :D), but we should decide what we wanna get from our viewers. Pity? I don't think so.
And also I think more supportive comments will come without these unnecessary negative texts. So if someone helplessly want this kind of support I suggest he/she should stop labeling his/her things as shit. Maybe also critics will come as well. But never be afraid of formulated critics!
(btw my English can be funky sometimes, sorry if something seems weird. I can not judge it.)