"Bad" artists giving advice to others

[amortelito]

Oh yeah graphic design makes you understand the purpose of feedback! yes is totally valid when you want to make art for yourself and it is entirely shaped to please you. But when you want to share it and make it grow you can't simply ignore the wishes of your audience (the reasonable ones obviously XD). It would be absurd if people find the format hard to read or blurry and you keep doing the same.

[amortelito]

People LIKE step by step tutorials and neat little instructions for how to make things, but that’s not really gonna help you so much in art, where you’re encouraged to try new things and be creative.

Yesss!!! I realize how much time I wasted in step by step tutorials, because basically I was just learning to copy what I saw and not understand the reasoning behind it.

[McAmps]

I think it depends. At least with comics, it might be good to get a critique from someone who is just a reader. They may not be able to explain exactly what is wrong or how to fix it, but since they are a part of the audience, it's still good to get that perspective.

Now if someone is teaching art and giving in depth critiques, then they should have some skill.

Though I will say everyone has different strengths. Once again with comics, someone can suck at drawing, but be an amazing graphic designer or story teller. They can have really good insight on lettering, layout or story, but you may not know that from glancing at their art.

I usually just judge crtiques by if they ring true to me. Some things can be taken with a grain of salt. This isn't art related, but with writing, I have gotten amazing critiques from someome who...has less experience and skill, yet they have a really good eye for other's stuff.

[amortelito]

I have gotten amazing critiques from someome who...has less experience and skill, yet they have a really good eye for other's stuff.

Me too is really humbling and refreshing to hear tips from someone who at first glance doesn't have an entirely evolved art. Absolutely right, someone might be not as good when they do it themselves but have an eye to point out areas of improvement. Is kind of what coaches do, don't they? Some coaches can't dance,draw,act, etc but are amazing at guiding and giving feedback!

[Eageali]

I think you do not have to be an expert at something to be able to critique it!
If something doesn't work for a person, then it is probably worth mentioning. However, when they say exactly what isn't working and how to fix it, that's where they might be wrong.

The person--especially if they're not at a high technical level, can only give you so many pro tips before they start making things up.

[jurinova]

I'm actually studying to become an art teacher and I've noticed that the best teachers aren't always the most talented artists. Being able to do good art and being able to give good advice are two very different things. Being able to see what could be improved and being able to verbalize that in a way that is actually helpful is not a common skill, and not something that comes automatically with artistic talent.

Of course it might be harder to accept advice from someone who is not yet a master of their trade, but their advice shouldn't be ignored just based on their current artistic level. I've seen good artists give bad advice and beginners give great advice, so in the end I think advice should be judged not by the merits of the giver but by the helpfulness to the receiver.

[nessiefynn]

I think it's best to take all art advice with a grain of salt, but to also try and see the reasoning behind it. Though if the advice-giver in question doesn't seem to have much technical knowledge, I think it's often reasonable to look on it with more than a little skepticism.
I think this is especially true for more technical areas like perspective and anatomy. Anyone can say, "the anatomy is bad," but that critique isn't going to be useful to an artist unless the critiquer can correctly explain why the anatomy is bad, and how to improve it. In this case, I think "bad" artists giving advice to others is a bit pointless. Most artists already know that they have areas they need to improve on, simply reiterating that isn't helpful at all.
And of course, there's Dunning Kruger effect. I've seen more than a few cases of less-than brilliant artists insistently giving out faulty advice because they fail to realize that they don't know what they're talking about themselves (I used to be one of them!).

For these reasons, I think it's reasonable to factor in someone's technical skill when considering art advice. You don't need to be a great artist to know when something looks bad, but you kind of need more than a little technical knowledge in order to know how to fix it.

[Bosque]

I mostly look at tutorials of "skillful" people because I think if I see the ones who talk about things I "can" do I'm not putting me on new challenges, but it's nice to see works of people with the same level I have to catch things probably I missed or about people with a maybe low skills at drawing but with lot of fans, views, etc to learn about the another fields they are skillful =°w°=
sorry if my grammar is bad---

[jjfresh]

Well first of all, you shouldn't ever look at comments section seriously on Youtube, especially if you're the creator of that video. A better example of bad artistic criticism is something I found a lot with some Fine arts students.

"Oh my God, those proportions just HURT"
"You should always learn your fundamentals first, then create your style. Otherwise don't bother."
" Learning how to draw from anime? LOL"
"There's no excuse to skip on your fundamentals"

I was once just looking for an old drawing of mine, just needed it because it had a concept design I liked. Someone saw it and began giving me a speech on what's wrong with it. I'm thinking, mate, first of all, it's a concept design for the outfit; the "pro-porshuns" don't matter.

Helping someone is not immediately looking for "what's wrong." Especially with such varying styles, and purposes of one artwork (Important),

Uh, I don't know how to write out my thoughts reasonably so I'll just go for your questions.

Where do you stand? Do you visit the page of an artist that gave you feedback of your art? (I always do because I'm a curious cat XD and I can't resist!) Is it important to value their contribution? What about tutorials?

For me, I don't give a shit if some artist comments on my style. I know what needs work. My goal is to be able to write a thoughtful and well done story, and draw it in a way that appeals to me. When I need improvement? I go to the professionals I know who can give me either a fundamentalist perspective or that pure artistic perspective. I don't trust kids on the internet who can't help but tell you how right they are and how much they think they know.

Tutorials? Honestly, I think tutorials are tough when they try teaching you small bits of an overall study, say for example, figure drawing. They've not really been that helpful for me, at least little youtube videos. You have to put in the practice yourself when it comes to art, which may make tutorials seem unhelpful. In that case, criticism from others is helpful, when you want to improve. But best look for someone who has experience.

Sorry, my thoughts go all over the place

[zuggarts]

I think it's generally fine if they're being critical--there will always be something wrong with your work, and if someone can see something wrong, I believe it's for a good reason.

I usually don't like art tutorials. I think they're perfectly useful if they're trying to teach you a very specific medium-related thing (i.e. "Super easy way to get a glow effect on Photoshop!" is alright); step-by-step tutorials of "super easy way to draw an eye/a head/the entire human body!" or shit like that really bothers me. If you're a truly skilled artist, sure--go ahead and teach. But most of these popular online tutorials are made by amateurs to mislead other amateurs into developing bad habits. A lot of beginners can't tell what is "good" or "bad" art yet; that's something you need to train yourself to be able to do. Everyone who likes art thinks they have good taste in art. We can't all be right.

@jjfresh I honestly don't know anyone truly excellent at art who deals out critique that bluntly without being asked for it (then again, I don't know many people IRL who study art in general). I feel like a lot of people online who do shit like that are amateurs themselves; being so rough on others' skills often makes one feel better about their own work. Top-tier artists don't need that kind of self-validation.

[jjfresh]

It's online stuff mostly. People generally don't have the balls to be as toxic in face-to-face communication as they are online. And it's not always the case that it's amateurs who do that. I've sensed that more pompous air from Fine Arts students to get a trend.

It's not just amateurs being gits, it's not necessarily self-validation as you put it. "Top-tier" artists can have a superior sense too. It's just online communication versus the more passive aggressive or subtle wording used face-to-face.

[catluckey]

Ohhh, deep discussions! I'm the step-by-step tutorial gal with realistic pencil drawings. Yeah, it is copying, but I also tried to give supplies used, reasons why to do this or that, and added a little education. But I agree, it is a lot of copying.

And I'm terrible at taking criticism. And stay away from giving it unless asked. But I remember one person talked about how stiff my characters were all the way through my story...I was stunned, hurt, and nearly threw down the towel. BUT what's weird is that "keeping my characters from looking stiff" is like a quest for me. I guess I have PTSD from that criticism!

[jjfresh]

Man, I think I was pissy when I wrote that or something. I would think of bad advice as one that doesn't consider the purpose of the art they are criticizing.

For example, criticizing inaccurate proportions in a political gag, kinda misses the point, doesn't it? The purpose of this artist's political gag is to clearly bring across their opinion on a certain topic. If it is clearly conveyed, he did his job.If he wants stricter criticism on, say proportions or perspective, then it's more valid.
Criticizing someone's cartoony style because it doesn't follow "the fundamentals" may also miss the point. Keep in mind art does NOT need you to be skilled in these specific studies in order to express yourself. That's the whole idea of modern art (even though it doesn't impress me). It's perfectly acceptable fora cartoonist to never learn fundamentals if he/she does not wish to. Art is flexible.

In other words, pay attention to the subject you are critiquing/criticizing. The purpose of the piece, and the kind of feedback the artist desires. Also keep in mind whether you are judging something based on your own personal taste or on a technical skill. Some artists are really full of themselves and are quick to put down other work, overlooking these things.
anyway... I try not to be a critique person. As if I have the right to say what is right or wrong in someone's work. I go off what feels right and whatever I've learnt; ie no different from others

[charliesackett]

If someone is giving me technical advice, I like to see how it looks when they practice it. If their technique isn't really something that wows me, I probably will take their advice with a grain of salt. They could be right and maybe I'll toy around with what they told me to do, but I try and wow myself first before I bother with what other people think.
If they're giving me their opinion on my work as a consumer, I will definitely take it more into consideration. If someone says they got bored reading my stuff, it doesn't matter whether or not they're a wizard at pacing because they're telling me about how they feel. When you just say how you feel you're technically never wrong.

[lunaartemisasama]

I just give "advice" if people ask me to. And maybe some tips of how to study art or some youtubers that I like. I use to follow different artists so I can have a wider idea of what style I might want to develop or what I am lacking.

I had some advice when I asked here in Tapas, and I know they're right. I am just too lazy or busy or both to follow them.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

I tend to teach myself as opposed to going step by step. I'm not the kind of person who seeks advice on art from other people, I like achieving it by myself. I tend to get cranky when people tell me how to do something, especially if I didn't ask for input.
That's not to say I don't have artists that I admire or copy techniques from. Burns Hogarth is one, I have all of his books on anatomy and I regularly trace or freehand his images. Through that method I've learned to incorporate them into my own style.