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UrMom
Feb '20
KRWright

@KRWilliams Sorry for the double post! I didn't get a notification for your responses.

True. Although it is a little embarrassing at times to do webcomics, but not be a writer. At least when it comes to conversing about stories. I used to write as a child, but I grew to despise the physical act of it. Trying to condense my thoughts and feelings into coherent sentences is extremely tiring, and could usually be done more effectively with drawings... if that makes sense and doesn't sound pretentious at the same time...

Oh, well so much for that. Lol
I guess I don't really know a movie that doesn't follow a three act structure than, or at least I'm not skilled enough to spot any without the help of someone else.

I actually do have the whole story planned out from beginning to end, and everything in between. The unappealing thing is it really isn't meant to have action, or at least a whole lot of excitement.

Spoilers and Heavy Content
  • Chapter 1-2 is act 1: The MC (Apollo), along with his friends are introduced in chapter 1, along with a semi-intro to the other MC (Julian, Apollo's ex-childhood friend) at the end. Daniel, the Julian's partner is introduced in the beginning, with Julian getting a more proper intro at the end.
  • Chapter 3-4 is act 2: We learn more about the MCs,and find out that Daniel and Julian are a couple at the end of chapter 3, chapter 4 is character development stuff.
  • Chapter 5 is, I guess, act 3?: It starts out with cheating, character interaction and development. The big moment is when Apollo realizes/remembers that Julian once told him they were diagnosed with leukemia.
  • Chapter 6 is another act 2: More character development and interaction stuff. Apollo breaks something important while trying to help Julian at the end of the chapter, causing Daniel to get made and kick him out.
  • Chapter 7 is act 3: Daniel tries to kill Julian and Apollo, the police come and save them just in time. Julian is comatose in the hospital, Apollo tries to deal with trauma from the event. Julian wakes up, and is admitted due to their mental instability after getting better, Apollo later on admits himself into a mental institute at the end of the chapter.
  • Chapter 8 is another act 3?: Julian is mentally shut down so they can't really talk to Apollo. There is some character reflection and development. Apollo comes to the realization and acceptance that they were never really friends, and he really just saw Julian as his nanny. At the end of the chapter he makes the decision to be Julian's caregiver.
  • Chapter 9-11 is I guess another act 2 and resolution: Julian wakes up, they make the decision to get treatment for their cancer, Julian starts therapy, Apollo gets properly trained in being a caregiver for Julian, they start taking steps to get better. Apollo goes back to school, a lot of character development happens, Julian manages to get a new job in spite of being in the middle of chemo. At the end of chapter 11 Julian no longer needs treatment and is in complete remission, they have a small lunch party to celebrate, the end.

There is a ton more detail to it than that, but this is a basic layout.
Admittedly I could cut out stuff like establishing shots, I may be wrong in how I'm interpreting the three act structure, the subject matter is also kind of odd? There are some really specific things I want to tell, and every interaction and bit of development is important. The comic is very character focused. Maybe I could sacrifice some things to condense chapters, I'm just being a suborn baby about it, also I'm not quite skilled enough to know how to condense without losing important stuff.

KRWright
Feb '20
UrMom

If you look at films, they all pretty much follow it, as they all need to do similar things due to the medium of cinema. You're more likely to not find 3 act structures in things like video games, novels or comics due to the difference in medium. Majora's Mask would be an example of a game that doesn't conform.

I can see where you can cut things, or work things more intricately. Where you see 'character development stuff', you don't need to stop the plot to do it. I think some of the best stories involve the character development within the major plot moments, and so the story doesn't stall for a chapter for characters to grow. Of course, there are always transitional chapters, but usually those happen later in the work than the start of the second act.

You might really benefit from some screen writing guides like Save the Cat or John Truby's Anatomy of a Story (Save the Cat is far easier to follow). These break down what it is that makes up a story's main beats and offers a kind of... formula for basic success. It's pretty non-restrictive as well.

UrMom
Feb '20

Ah that's probably why I don't see anything different. While I read webcomics, I haven't played a video game or read a novel in yeeears.

Oh no! I guess I could delete that whole chapter and redraw it when I get the chance to. Or maybe delete pages like these.
Edit: Apparently you can't put images behind a spoiler, so here is a link to the three pages.
https://tapas.io/episode/13200481
https://tapas.io/episode/1326534
https://tapas.io/episode/1333056
Then maybe draw something more condensed to tie things off?... maybe I could delete the entire nighttime scene where the MCs talk. Or that one where Julian is having an episode. What sucks is the character stuff is the plot, it's all about character interactions, dialogue, flashbacks and visual ques. There are a lot of things I feel are part of the plot in that chapter, I'll just have to figure out how to rework it to only have those parts and nothing else.

Thank you for letting me know which chapter to get rid of, it'll hurt since it took me a year to finish, but if it affects the story negatively then it's a necessary hurt. Also thank you for the recommendations and taking the time to work with me, I don't like the idea of having to go by a specific formula, rather than just focusing on telling a story, but if I want to make something worth reading it's a necessity.
I'll definitely look up these guides!

KRWright
Feb '20

With webcomics, you certainly shouldn't be 'deleting' anything. It's more a thing to take into your next and future projects rather than to retroactively go back and do something about. It also seems that you've got slice-of-life going on, so it might be good to look at a variety of slice-of-life stuff and really dig down deep into what makes them work.

UrMom
Feb '20

I dunno, I'm in the process of preparing these chapters for print and if people buy it, I don't want them to pay for something bad. It would be a waste of their money.

That is a good point about looking through slice-of-life stuff, I follow a few comics and have watched movies/tv series in the genre, but admit to never being a fan. I'll start searching out more for study purposes.

KRWright
Feb '20

It's not 'bad' and I didn't say that it would waste people's money. There are plenty of novels, films etc. that aren't the tightest they could be! The Lord of the Rings has Tom Bombadill for example. No one has removed it from the main book, even though it tightens the plot to do so.

LDJones
Feb '20

Fancy seeing you guys here @saintc @KRWilliams

Preferred Name: LDJ or Pride
Pronouns: He/Him
Genres you create: Fantasy, Adventure/Action, Science Fiction
Where you plan to take your writing journey: Traditional/Self Publishing, Online Serialisation
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/ldjones1

UrMom
Feb '20
KRWright

Oh no! Excess filler weighing a story down being bad is solely my belief, at least for my own work, sorry if it felt like I was putting words in your mouth. I just don't want people to have a bad experience if they're paying for it.

Whoo gosh, Lord of the Rings is kind of a revolutionary piece that redefined the fantasy genre, I can see why no one would want to alter the original story. I agree that some loose baggage won't always be detrimental to a story, some stories can probably work pretty well like that, it just is for mine because I'm trying to stay focused on only the plot and character development that helps the story progress.

KRWright
Feb '20

Hi @Everyone ! It's the next day and yesterday's discussion went really well so I'm hoping that todays goes similarly!

As with the other topic, there's going to be an infographic and some questions! I won't be making infographics for everything (they're super time consuming), but I will for the first two as I know some people found them helpful!

18

Lineia
Feb '20

I haven’t started my comic yet so I don’t really have anything to add but I think this is really cool and helpful, reading everyone’s discussions!

Iris-Grimoire
Feb '20
1

I skipped the first one but with characters I can spare some time to fill the questions out!

But first, on mary sues, I think the infographic missed a pretty big thing - invincible characters aren't Sues until the story itself revolves around their opinion and their being. Too many people like to throw that term as an insult at anyone that's a prodigy, but it's not the problem. Harkening back to the good ol classic My Immortal, the bad characters aren't bad because they do bad things or oppose the cast, it's only because they dislike Ebony and do bad things to her.

  • The hardest part of a character for me is not sticking to the first design or personality. It's too easy, but you need to test them with more than one iteration. Your first idea might be fun, but it's never as fun as it can be. Mortimer used to be a total edgelord in my comic, and the protagonist for my book plans didn't really have consistent flaws until I found her voice rather than try to put her in more cool situations.
  • Thumbnailing on the art side, gimmicks, projecting my flaws - er I mean making their flaws work with the scenes. So much fun and is the best route to find that voice if I just keep trying new things.
  • Whatever sounds appropriate at the time. Sometimes it's right in my head (Mort), sometimes it's an interesting term I came across or built from words that were in my mind for a bit (Veriesin), sometimes it's a lot of research and even making rules to name similar characters (Spinelthorn). Behind the Name and Etymonline are your friends, and if it's VERY hard, Fantasynamegenerators is a good emergency site.
  • Don't sweat it that it reminds you of another character on your first attempt. Again, never stick with it, work with it. Slowly but surely you'll find what works, find the voice, and find what makes them distinct from someone else. And also, don't be scared of things that might be overdone! Life's too short to worry if you're writing yet another brooding demon conflicted about their dark powers, think about how you can make them stand out instead.

As an example of characters that might come from anywhere, I have Spinelthorn on the mind so here we go. All three main hobs in the comic started as him, a tiny orange rabbit named Claws inspired by the Hopgoblin from the short film Reversal of the Heart. When I redid the entire cast, he slowly started needing more and more character traits to serve as Mortimer's lancer and started being too competent - so I split him into Fangs and Berylclaw to fit different emotions and roles without acting basically like a butler. Spinelthorn had no "himself" before that point, and without the scene roles, I finally had room to give him character, voice, flaws, backstory and everything.

darthmongoose
Feb '20
KRWright

"What is the hardest thing about character creation for you?"
I always struggle with protagonists. I have a tendency to make a protagonist, then to make a bunch of side characters who are inevitably more compelling. I actually combat this by making a dummy main character, building my cast, then swapping in whoever works best thematically from the "supporting cast" for the empty dummy. :joy:
My other nemesis... male characters... I just always feel like there's so much more room to make a really unique female character I haven't seen before, wheras dudes are so ubiquitous in the genres I work in I always feel like they're a bit boring and like "yeah we've seen this guy..." so I tend to end up making a cast full of really colourful women then go "ugh I guess some of these should be men..." :sweat_smile:

"What is the easiest thing about character creation for you?"
I can come up with a character's voice on the spot. It's really handy for DMing or GMing tabletop games. Their voice, speech pattern, vocabulary, colloquialisms and even things like posture and gestures are very vivid in my mind, so "character voice" is really intuitive for me.

"How do you choose names when creating characters?"
Errant is a bit of an outlier because the characters date way back to older work from when I was about eighteen and my approach was "just throw in some syllables and whatever sounds cool." Nowadays my approach is: "Think about who gave them this name" So we all have, or have had in the past, a name our parents gave us, and that name always reflects our parents in some way; what they wanted to say about themselves, how they felt about this little crying blob they'd produced and what they wanted you to be. In many people's cases, as they grew up, people (maybe with some kind of guidance from you) may have settled on some kind of nickname for you, or maybe you picked a new one yourself. I always try to have some kind of logic in mind of "who gave this person this name, do they like it? Do they suit it? Do other people like it?"
If you were named Robert, you could be a Rob, Robbie, Bob, Bert, Bertie or maybe you ended up with a more wacky nickname like Robo or Robsie, or a nickname that has nothing to do with your name like "Lucky". Or you might have entirely divorced yourself from Robert and chosen a name for yourself, and that's always interesting because then it becomes "who do I want to be?" and "What do I think suits me?"

I always find it weird when a character has like... the most ridiculously badass name and it's just one their parents apparently gave them and I'm trying to imagine the scenario where their parents who ran like... a grocer's shop in a little village named their kid BLAZE WOLFHEART. Like, I'm sorry, were your parents actually huge nerds or did you really give yourself that name and they originally named you Robert?

Surnames are generally easier because it's all about just thinking about the character's lineage and choosing a name from an appropriate area that goes together nicely with their first name. If it has an appropriate meaning, that's a nice bonus.

One sentence of advice for a newbie character creator:
The lies your character believes about themselves are some of the most important things to nail down when creating a compelling character.

UrMom
Feb '20

What is the hardest thing about character creation for you?

Probably getting into the head of a character with certain disorders that affect their personality. One of my characters is a narcissistic sociopath, and completely different from me in every way. It's hard to fully understand how he ticks regardless of how much research I do on sociopathy/ASPD and narcissism, even with fleshing out his character via background, interests and personality traits.

What is the easiest thing about character creation for you?

Other than what I said above, probably everything else is pretty simple? I'm kind of a nut for learning and building every aspect of my characters from little body language quirks, to deeper things like what made them who they are. I especially love working with mental health and the medical aspect of a character, such as possible hereditary issues they might have and how those affect them mentally and emotionally, along with what daily challenges their face because if it.

How do you choose names when creating characters?

I choose names for characters the same way I do for pets. I look them over, run a few names in my head, look some up online to help with brainstorming, then choose one that fits and sounds the best for that character. I also go by country of origin, or parental interests. (Like if a Japanese couple moved to Germany and liked the sound of German names over the ones from their own country.) This can take a few days to a few weeks because I may come up with a name that feels better after already deciding a name. Such as with a side character I have in my comic, he started out being called George, but later on I changed his name to Kevin because it fit with him better.

While I'm almost as picky about surnames I don't care as much, although I do put ancestry into consideration when looking them up. For my comic itself their existence does have a subtle importance, all my characters have surnames except one. They are mononymous, meaning they only have one name. This is a legit thing and totally legal but it makes filling out paperwork, along with other related tasks, difficult. It also has a sense of symbolism since this character was found as a child with no identity, the lack of a surname adds onto that feeling of not fitting in, or having no place to call home.

Write one sentence of advice for a newbie thing about creating their first character.

Just go for it, who cares if the character may suck, we all start somewhere and you can always fix up your character as you go.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Feb '20

I'll probably end up being more of a lurker than anything but, I know I need improvement as a storyteller so I'll join up.

Preferred name: Dragon or Nate
Prounouns: Galactic Overlord of Terror, or Him\he is fine I guess...xD
Genres I Create: Sci-fantasy, Action, Fighting, Comedy, and a depressing office comedy Slice of Life.
Where do I want to take my writing? I'd love to have my flagship series Dragon Sparking become an animated series. Being able to write and draw it full time while getting paid would also be nice.

Link to my tapas profile: https://m.tapas.io/friendlypirahna

Jumping in right off...

The Hardest thing about Character Creation?
Coming up with powers and abilities for them. Since I write mostly shounen style comics I like to have interesting powers that don't get used a lot. So to do that I come up with the abilities first, and then build the character around that.

I suppose creating main characters is rough too, because there's so many already out there that are unique and been done before.

Easiest thing about Character Creation?
Drawing their designs. Once I have powers and names and personalities, I can visualize them pretty well.

Choosing Character Names?
Mythology. I usually take characters from mythology, bastardize them and tear away everything they're about and make them in my own image.

Now...I do have character names that aren't Mythology based.

Rip, my main OC for example. Originally he was a Sonic OC when I made him back in 2001...so...there's that. Rip was just a way to say move fast, so I went with that.
But... NOW... I have a symbolism that goes with his name. He's joining an organization that tears or 'rips' down oppressors and tyrants. So it works that way xD

Also for other names, I'll either come up with the name based off what kind of animal the character is. For example, I've got a lion character, his name is Leo. (So inventive xD) Sometimes, I'll name them off of their powers, or personality, or even off of name lists. (that's my last ditch resort)

Finally my other prerequisite for names is, "Does it sound like it fits?" "Okay." And then later I'll come up with reasons for the names, but most of the time I just guess.

One Sentence of Advice for a Newbie Creator:
I'm not qualified for that xD but maybe...don't sweat it too much, just get started writing the character and then you'll understand them a little better as you go.

nauko
Feb '20

Wasn't able to get an answer in yesterday, but I'm pretty determined to do this today ^^;

What is the hardest thing about character creation for you?
Thinking too much about what value they add to the story before writing.
I try hard to make them human, relateable, unique, and try to understand the ratios in a recipe to accomplish all this successfully without seeming unrealistic, out there, or boring. Yeah, when I imagine character creation, I think what comes to mind is the opening sequence of the PowerPuff Girls, when they explain the Professor trying to make the perfect little girls and accidentally dropping Chemical X in ahaha.

It's not that I want my characters to be perfect. I just want them to be engaging enough, at least in unison, to propel the story through the twists and turns it will take. It takes me bit of time to fully understand what I'm going for in each character's temperament because solidifying them in this respect is a back and forth battle in the question "how can these characters actions and mannerisms take the story from Point A to Point B?" I think I just think about it way too much in detail in the beginning instead of tossing them in there like dice and letting them them fall where they may lol.

What is the easiest thing about character creation for you?

The main character overall is always the easiest to create. I don't usually have a story in mind unless I've been thinking about a main character's possible actions and temperaments for weeks on end.

How do you choose names when creating characters?

I actually just list out names I really like on notepad listing app on my phone and look at them over and over again with process of elimination in mind until I pick one tbh lol. Unless the name has some major significance to the story (which I haven't attempted to do personally) , i'm not going to linger too long on that part ngl.

Write one sentence of advice for a newbie thing about creating their first character.

Obvious but overlooked tip: Whether you're an artist or a writer, sketch your character out first; artist-->visually, writer--->narratively. Sitting down to do this in the very beginning will help tie down some idea of who you want to create and give you the confidence to actually start.

At12MN
Feb '20
KRWright

What is the hardest thing about character creation for you?
The hardest for me is knowing their detailed physical looks, determining their internal and external goals, and thinking of the love interest as the antagonist.

While I do have a vague idea of how they look and present themselves, I find it hard to know exactly what they look like. I can't picture their faces vividly or any lines, curves, and all that. (This is why I don't draw lol) I have to know how they look like first because what makes them stand-out to me might not be so obvious to the other characters or to the readers. It is also easier to imagine characters in scenarios if I have a clear picture of them than think of just the outline of their bodies.

The goals are important because these are my basis on knowing how my character would act or react to situations. If I can't figure out what is important to them, then I have a flimsy story and should reconsider the entire thing again.

Since I'm writing romance, the love interest is just as important as the protagonist. But it's hard for me to think of my LIs as an antagonist when I think of them as the MC's support system. I have to think hard and find a way for them to have a conflicting external goal.

What is the easiest thing about character creation for you?
Naming and the basic bios. I often come up on the spot when I'm writing a draft.

How do you choose names when creating characters?
By gut feeling. :sweat_smile: Sometimes, the names just pop out when I'm writing a scene. Other times, when I don't have any idea especially for historical, I search for old names or something like that. If I want to take my research the extra mile, I try to find by theme or meanings but that rarely happens. A lot of times, I rely on Sims for naming my characters. lol

But I do follow one rule for naming: short and simple names only. Because they usually stick. And they're easier to write.

Write one sentence of advice for a newbie thinking about creating their first character.
It's okay to use popular tropes. What's important is how you put your own spin to these characters. They may seem flat at first, and it's alright because you'll develop them along the way.