Censorship and secret rules?

[natness]

So, in December 2023 my comic was taken off the app because I drew a pair of circles on a female character's chest, and that was too explicit for the app. It was frustrating as I chose Tapas after Smackjeeves closed because it allowed non-sexual nudity, but fine, I thought, the comic can be web only then.

Well, this week the 550 pages long comic got blocked because of a non-sexual flaccid penis drawn in the simplest, most non-detailed of styles, despite only being hosted on the web version. The moderator linked to the guidelines and told me that genitals have to be censored, which I find confusing... because no such rule is in the guidelines.

I'm at a loss at this point. I didn't think it was in violation of the guidelines as non-sexual nudity is supposedly allowed and I marked the page as mature just in case. However, now it sounds like there are secret rules we have to obey without being told about them?

Am I the only one who's had this problem? Is it an overly enthusiastic moderator or a bot that's made this decision on their own, regardless of the actual rules? What's going on here?

[Lensing]

Lookie my friend

[kyupol]

One of my comics got censored in the app because of decapitation scenes.

Never had problems with the nudity part.

There's ways to depict extremely violent or sexual scenes without being too visually direct about it.

[natness]

Except those are not the guidelines for web only comics.

On web, non-sexual nudity and censored sexual acts may be allowed.

And, as I specified in the first paragraph, my comic has been web only since December 2023.

[natness]

Sure, but it wasn't a sexual scene at all. It was on par with the nudity you'd see in a 'learning about the body' book for kids, which is why I'm confused.

[Lensing]

I got you but what can you do where there is guideline saying:
within comics we also do not allow nudity of any kind.

I make nsfw comics myself, I started uploading a sex comedy.
I´ll black out all risky scenes when I´m at that point in my story.
There will still be a high chance that some moderator will take it
down. The same goes for your comic. You know that uploading
a comic which shows boobs or a penis can be risky, you don´t
need me to explain this to you.

[natness]

You are quoting the app rules. They are harsher than the web only rules. They are also not the rules that the moderator linked to when justifying their decision.

I cannot stress this enough: the nudity was at a level you'd see in a children's 'learning about the body' picture book. It was not sexual in the slightest and non-sexual nudity is supposedly allowed on the web version of Tapas.

[Lensing]

I cannot stress this enough: the nudity was at a level you'd see in a children's 'learning about the body' picture book.

I believe you but the moderators didn´t see it that way, it would be interesting for me to see
the comic scenes

[natness]

Sure, it's still available here.

I freely admit that I'm not from the US so I haven't been raised with the notion that the body existing = traumatizing, but this is just a dude standing and humor a four-year-old would laugh at ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[kyupol]

I tend to shy away from depicting nudity those seem to get censored more easily than violence.

So for example...

I've put boxers on them. I was deciding if I should just strategically place clouds over the private parts since this is supposed to be a depiction of their souls... but don't wanna run foul of guidelines.

And this... something I did in the past ALREADY pushes the limits of nudity AND violence.

[natness]

Sure, but my main gripe here is mainly that either the moderator in question is wrong or there are secret rules that they enforce but don't inform us about.

And the comic page in question couldn't exactly be censored and still have the joke work so... -.-

[kyupol]

Saw it. IMO, it should get "M" tag. But places like Tapas, webtoons, YouTube, etc would definitely censor that.

Heck.. YouTube censored this comic dub of mine...

[IndigoShirtProd]

Wait, where are the web-only guidelines that you're referring to?

Okay, I think I found it.

Couple of caveats, nothing seems guaranteed. Looks like it is at their discretion at the end of the day. Which is unfortunate in this case.

[natness]

Oh, no, I agree, I see that 'may', however the moderator insisted that it's a rule that all genitals must be censored and referred to that link... and that's not what it says at all. Which sounds a whole lot like either the moderator is wrong (aka that rule doesn't exist) or that that rule exists but they haven't told us about it.

I've been working from the assumption that non-sexual nudity (if not detailed or particularly in your face) is fine due to the above description. However, I also expected Tapas to be upfront about the rules that they enforced, and now I'm in this weird limbo where I'm not sure what other secret rules they may have/if I'm at the mercy of a moderator who is doing their own thing regardless of the rules.

[natness]

Would webtoons censor it? Sure. It's why I don't publish my comic on webtoons. However, Tapas is supposedly ok with non-sexual nudity on the web-version.

And I did put a mature tag on it. As unbothered as I am by the human body existing I know that it's not the case for a lot of people ¯_(ツ)_/¯ However, I think that M should have sufficed because at the end of the day it isn't sexual.

[IndigoShirtProd]

Which sounds a whole lot like either the moderator is wrong (aka that rule doesn't exist) or that that rule exists but they haven't told us about it.

No, no it exists. It's right there. Though I can agree that it's not clearly stated that nudity needs to be censored. That's a point worth arguing over with the moderation team, who will likely just revise the terms so that there isn't a loophole some creators will fight over.

But aside from that, even if your comic doesn't show up on the app, it's still at the moderation team's discretion what is allowed on the website for a non-premium series. I'm not understanding what this "secret rule" your referring to might even be. Generally, from what it seems, nudity of any kind is frowned upon and is up for removal at the discretion of the website owners/moderators. Just because you thought that the nudity you displayed wasn't applicable for removal under the guidelines doesn't mean that there is in turn a secret rule that they are keeping from independent creators. You can argue with the moderation team on this point, but implying that Tapas is being deceitful is a bit much in my opinion. They're not perfect, but they're well within their right to monitor their platform how they see fit. Even if it's unfair at times, unfortunately.

So it's less of a secret rule and more of a poorly worded guideline.

[natness]

Sorry, I understand that some parts of the world have bigger hangups about it than others, but I simply can't agree that genitals existing makes nudity sexual. And not just because I've been to life drawing sessions.

Just because you thought that the nudity you displayed wasn't applicable for removal under the guidelines doesn't mean that there is in turn a secret rule that they are keeping from independent creators.

Perhaps I haven't been clear, or it's been missed along the way, but the rule that I refer to is the moderator telling me that all genitals have to be censored and that it's a rule while referring to those guidelines I linked to. That's what I mean with secret rules, because there's nothing in the guidelines mentioning anything of the sort.

[IndigoShirtProd]

but I simply can't agree that genitals existing makes nudity sexual

Well, I didn't say that, neither did the rules. I guess you can make an argument for that being what the guideline is implying. But even then the guideline clearly states that 'non-sexual nudity may be allowed,' giving the moderators space to remove what they conclude breeches the guideline.

Perhaps I haven't been clear, or it's been missed along the way, but the rule that I refer to is the moderator telling me that all genitals have to be censored and that it's a rule while referring to those guidelines I linked to. That's what I mean with secret rules, because there's nothing in the guidelines mentioning anything of the sort.

Yea eventually I got there and that's why I said "So it's less of a secret rule and more of a poorly worded guideline." They should be more clear on how and when nudity of any kind should be censored on the platform; what a great thing to report to the moderation team. Be the change you want to see in the world.

End of the day, I get your frustration and how it impedes on how you want to tell your story. But if you want to play ball, you have to follow the unfortunately worded guidelines, argue where necessary, and maybe don't jump to an arbitrary conclusion like a "secret rule." It's not a secret, it's just a conclusion they assumed people would arrive when putting nudity on their platform.

[natness]

I never said that they didn't have room to decide that some nudity wasn't appropriate. I've read and reread those guidelines multiple times. That's why I'm pointing at the non-sexual nudity part because that comic wasn't sexual in the slightest.
However, I'm objecting to the possibility that there's a very clear rule that they are enforcing but not telling the artists about until they overstep. That would be a secret rule. I don't know how else you'd describe it, but "poorly worded guideline" is not it - that would only be the case if they were fussy on what they allowed behind the scenes as well, which certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

I've already raised the issue with them. Zero answer as of yet on that front.

Thing is, it's hard to follow guidelines when they're not clear. I'm no longer certain what is and isn't allowed, and it feels like I'm expected to self-censor far harsher than necessary to avoid overstepping an undefined line again. Hardly the most encouraging working conditions.

It's wild to think that everyone would come to the same conclusion based on such a vaguely worded guideline though. You'd have to assume that everyone using the site have the same cultural background and values for that to have even the slightest chance of happening.

[IndigoShirtProd]

However, I'm objecting to the possibility that there's a very clear rule that they are enforcing but not telling the artists about until they overstep. That would be a secret rule.

I don't feel like quarreling over the semantics when we're practically on the same page.

"poorly worded guideline" is not it - that would only be the case if they were fussy on what they allowed behind the scenes as well

That guideline is only for the indie comics not the premium ones from what I understand.

I've already raised the issue with them. Zero answer as of yet on that front.

I hope you're not surprised by that.

Thing is, it's hard to follow guidelines when they're not clear. I'm no longer certain what is and isn't allowed, and it feels like I'm expected to self-censor far harsher than necessary to avoid overstepping an undefined line again.

Well, now you know, I guess...

Hardly the most encouraging working conditions.

You say that like you're getting paid.

It's wild to think that everyone would come to the same conclusion based on such a vaguely worded guideline though.

Yea, it's pretty wild... Oh well. I didn't say this before because I didn't want to be too cynical, but like, Tapas is in the business of making money, not sense. They're an american company so they're beholden to american laws, sensibilities, and, most importantly, american app store guidelines.

I just don't get why you're here in the forums for this? You're pretty set in your interpretation of what happened. Mods are rarely here so it's not like you were going to get many clarifying answers. Like, what were you expecting?