Classic book format option along with vertical - creative freedom

[michaelson]

Like Scott McCloud's idea for infinite canvas:

Theoretically, what Scott McCloud is proposing is awesome. It opens up so many more possibilities in terms of how we tell stories, how we guide readers through an experience and possibly creates a great mechanic for telling stories that diverge into different paths (choose your own adventure). However, I don't think what he's proposing is easy to create both in terms of making a website or making a comic. But I really do hope to read something in that format.

You can totally make some wider pages. Just put up a preview on Tapastic as a placeholder and leave a link to the real image, which you could easily put on Deviantart.

I don't think that's really an ideal way to read a comic. For one, that completely breaks the suspension of disbelief and would take me out of the reading experience.

The same sort of applies when:

I've seen how ugly it can be, too. It's jarring when the comic image suddenly changes dimensions.

Hmm, so... I guess this is where I talk about the philosophy of webcomics and the direction we want to head in. I believe that webcomics is at its core very different from traditional comics. Tapastic was built for webcomics, a lot of the tools, a lot of its structure, its ethos and more are dedicated to this format. Webcomics for me, are comics made specifically to be consumed on the web - it's sort of the opposite of what creators think of when creating. Basically, think about how its going to be read digitally first, then go back and think about reformatting for physical (if and when you do).

I don't think you can replicate the feeling of a double page spread digitally. It's just not the same. There's a visceral feeling about opening a page up and being engulfed. You can't replicate that on a phone - and trying to squish a two page spread on a mobile screen is a really bad experience on the reader side. Yet, we see so many other sites trying to do this.

I honestly don't think there can be an industry for webcomics if we continue on that path.

So the next question is, why do we push mobile so much?

Distribution.

If we're talking about the advantages of webcomics, at it's core, it's all about distribution. We don't want to give anyone an excuse not to read comics. Can't make it the comic shop on Wednesday? No problem. Got a phone and a 5 minute break? Perfect.

We want to make reading comics an everyday habit for the everyday person. We want to help creators get in front of the right audience and exposing creators to first time readers is a delicate art. For one, we need to make sure the creator's comic is easy to read, they should feel natural on a phone or mobile device. Again, don't give the reader an excuse not to read.

Sorry this response is sort of getting away from - I really hope that makes sense (?). Looking forward to seeing more from this conversation.

There's an app called Scrollon which features comics that use a horizontal scrolling format. Cool concept, but limited to the works of the creators of the app, so it isn't the greatest in terms of selection.

The guy's at Scrollon are great! I think their app shows a lot of promise - the way they're really pushing weaving every panel together makes for a really unique reading experience. Their app really shows that there's a huge difference between reading horizontally and vertically. Definitely keep your eyes peeled on them as they're going to have some exciting stuff coming out this year.

[PotooGryphon]

Oh for sure! A website that could accomplish that kind of platform for webcomic would probably be a piece of web coding masterpiece and definitely way beyond my comprehension of web development. However, I could see that idea as a possible glimpse at what the future of webcomics could be.

Uploading a comic episode would probably feel more like a creative interactive game with designing which direction each page/panel is going. Or perhaps just a flowchart that users drag and drop pages/panels into... Even, though I have no idea how it can be done, I find it fun just trying to imagine how it might be a possibility. haha

[gateofselidor]

I have an existing comic with over 100 pages that I migrated to Tapastic with the Inkblazers closure, and it's been quite an experience to get used to the vertical format here. I've just started reworking the early pages into a proper vertical layout, and it really changes the feel of them.

I only have one double-page spread in the comic, because my working process meant I had to pencil it on A3 paper and I think it took about three weeks to complete the page, which rather put me off doing any more. I do have a lot of horizontal landscapes used to set the scene though, and I'm worried that converting pages into the new format will lessen the impact of them, or that I might have to slice them up into multiple panels to achieve the same pacing as in the print style pages.

I'm not sure Tapastic needs another format option though. There are other comic hosting sites with more flexible layout options and user bases that are more likely to be looking for traditional formatting in the webcomics they read.

[acf]

I must say that personally, I prefer the traditional page format over the vertical layouts.
It's true that a lot of people is browsing Tapastic on their phones or tablets, but on the other hand, monitors are becoming wider and wider nowadays, so it'd certainly be a shame to start pushing everything towards the vertical format while neglecting the PC users

[fanyart]

Yeah, that's exactly what I have been secretly wishing for Tapastic to introduce after expanding horizontally to the classic double page!

I have been working on a comic about the rock cycle for the Trivia from Nature (I planned it to use for my geology education assignment) but realized that it would be hard for readers to keep the whole idea in mind while scrolling only down - it's good when the rock gets sedimented but not when it goes up a volcano back to the surface to complete the cycle.

It would have been really cool (especially for mobile phones wth touch navigation) if the comic didn't have to be only a vertical stripe but also a circle or U shape or whatever curved shapes (imagine a groundhog's home with all the tunnels and rooms).

That's why I really do hope that Tapastic as probably the most used webcomic platform doesn't get stuck with vertical format forever and tries to expand in all directions, starting with the double page classic format (because I suppose it's way easier to write code for that than for the "all directions" format.

Imagine all the creative possibilities! That's like having three whole dimensions more to work with!

[fanyart]

Hello, another refugee from inkblazers! I completely understand what you are going through with the emotions getting lost in the vertical format. I need to take a look how you solved it.

Can you tell me about other webcomic hosting sites that have those flexible layout options please? I would like to see that - to tell the truth, I'm here on Tapastic (and before Inkblazers) because of a social media assignment with the focus of shifting trends of webcomics and the initial reason I started posting my old comic from highschool was because I wanted to test out the new webhosting sites (back when I was in highschool the trend was definitely having your own comic website), and it kind of got out of hand
So far I have found and to some degrees "tested and analyzed" Inkblazers, Tapastic, Comicfury and Smackjeeves (and by a wide margin the site with best potential for average starting authors was Tapastic), do you know some more?

[PotooGryphon]

If Tapastic were to pull it off, they'd be first webcomic site to offer that. That's progressive, and a sure way to really stand out upon all the other webcomic sites. *wink wink nod nod

Honestly, however, I think Tapastic already strongly stands out upon the rest of the webcomic sites, and their infinite canvas setup is top notch. This is just purely an idea to crank the awesome switch to volume 11!

[fanyart]

Thanks for the thoughts and info. I just wanted to propose the idea with the "why close the doors with vertical format for mobiles when what's fun can become even more fun".

I believe there are more people like me who prefer reading on laptop and when they can choose between vertical and classic page format, they go for classic. (I don't really want to write that I feel discriminated when I have to read on my super wide screen a narrow strip with two big blocks of unused space on the sides. ) Shouldn't it be up to the readers and authors how they want to tell / read the story and not up to the current trends?

Isn't it at least possible to change the limit of image width to about 1500 px for readers to be able to read even double pages when the story needs it? Because with this small change Tapastic would become a more universal platform when it already has the "preadaptation" of the arrow keys navigation (thumbs up for that!). Is this possible?

[Zanreo]

I do all my comics in a vertical format, even the shorter gag ones, and think this looks best. If anything, it certainly beats having to scroll horizontally (and I feel like a horizontal comic like you're talking about would get too small for my comic, I like drawing big). Vertical scrolling seems more natural. But hey, giving creators and readers more options can only be a good thing, and for those who want it I don't see why not.
Haven't really neeeded to use something like a big scenery reveal, but in that case I could just mess around with the panels/have no panels around that frame to make it stand out. (Messing around with frames in my longer comic is definitely something I should experiment more with in general...)

[michaelson]

I believe there are more people like me who prefer reading on laptop and when they can choose between vertical and classic page format, they go for classic.

I feel like I already covered a lot of this with my previous post but I want to get creators away from thinking about comics in the classical sense - we really need to move forward. I don't think that offering two different reading experiences benefits the readers - especially when our focus is delivering content to mobile devices.

Also, just think about how you consume content on the web. Try thinking of all the sites you use on a daily basis whether it's tumblr or facebook or instagram, etc. Notice how they're all formatted so that you digest information by scrolling down? It feels natural. That's what we're trying to get at - the natural consumption of information and making it easier to read comics.

Classical - page style viewing just doesn't make any sense on the web. Refreshing a webpage to read the next page of a comic just isn't the ideal experience and isn't taking advantage of the unique consumption experience that digital has to offer.

[fanyart]

Classical - page style viewing just doesn't make any sense on the web. Refreshing a webpage to read the next page of a comic just isn't the ideal experience and isn't taking advantage of the unique consumption experience that digital has to offer.

I don't think that's entirely true, on the contrary, scrolling narrow stripes on a 1920x1080 px laptop display is what feels funny there I understand that the majority in your stats read on mobile phones but people reading on PCs or laptops aren't such a minority, why close the door on them?

Maybe I'm just pushing things but isn't it purely the choice of the author to decide how to best express their stories? Pushing them to do what's currently in (and probably won't be in a few years) just because it's in isn't exactly opening their minds - that would be presenting them with the publishing choices they have for their comic, let them consider these possibilities and then decide which way is the best for their story to be best expressed.

[acf]

...
I want to get creators away from thinking about comics in the classical sense - we really need to move forward

You're been advocating the vertical layout a lot, it's clear that you prefer it that way.
Moving forward is nice and fine. Moving forward at all costs, not so much
My opinion is that with tablets and smartphones becoming bigger and bigger, vertical layouts shouldn't be necessary anyway.
If someone prefers it that way, sure, their choice. If someone prefers something else, they should probably have a room to do what is comfortable to them, too

[NiccoloNiccolo]

To Be Continued is a web comic that does some interesting things with the "infinite canvas." They use JavaScript to facilitate multi-directional scrolling on desktop browsers, or jumping to different slides of a sort of "presentation" with some interesting animation effects. Every episode does it a little differently, and does it in a way that could only work on the web (or converted to an offline digital format), which I think is really interesting.

I've been thinking lately that I'd like to try out these sorts of effects -- to make my comic really take advantage of all that's possible in the digital medium -- but Tapastic does not offer any way to do that... YET(?).

[PotooGryphon]

Holy cow! That's awesome! I love how all you have to do is scroll too. The site leads you where you need to go so there's no chance at getting lost. There's so many possibilities to play with something like that. O.O

[michaelson]

Maybe I'm just pushing things but isn't it purely the choice of the author to decide how to best express their stories?

Yes - and there are plenty of other websites that can cater to those needs.

Pushing them to do what's currently in (and probably won't be in a few years) just because it's in isn't exactly opening their minds

I think that's a bit cynical to think that this format won't be around in a few years. You're probably not familiar with the Korean webtoon industry which is massive and is based around this form factor. Can you honestly tell me that people won't be reading comics on their phones? If anything more people are going to be reading and interacting with content on their phone because of how the market is constantly growing.

My opinion is that with tablets and smartphones becoming bigger and bigger, vertical layouts shouldn't be necessary anyway.

This is more about the ideal way to consume content. Naturally scrolling down.

I've been thinking lately that I'd like to try out these sorts of effects -- to make my comic really take advantage of all that's possible in the digital medium -- but Tapastic does not offer any way to do that... YET(?).

It's a really awesome comic and something that we would love to do on our site. Maybe sometime in the future.

[Drezz]

I just started a mobile version of my comic the other day. It will be a bit of work to get it all up-to-date with the current storyline of my traditional page-a-day version, but at least now people will have the option of viewing my work on their handhelds or on a monitor.

You're welcome. HAHAHA

[supersachiko]

the layout of this site is the main reason i dislike this site and i prefer smackjeeves.

i dislike the vertical format because i don't like all the pages being put together all at once. i like when individual pages, or two pages at a time, are displayed by themselves, so that readers can comment! the vertical format seems like it's designed for readers to speed through the comic as quickly as possible. also the display of pages on this site is too small.

(minor pet peeve: i don't like the word "episodes" on this site and it was confusing. what's an episode? a chapter? a page? also "episode" sounds like a TV show and not as much like a comic)

but anyway the layout of pages is what i really don't like and if that were changed, i'd consider uploading my comics on this site. but for now, i'm not interested.

[minzinger]

To Be Continued is a web comic that does some interesting things with the "infinite canvas."

@NiccoloNiccolo Haha... yes we are very aware of this site. It's custom-built. Unfortunately, we can't custom build everything for everyone's needs.

You're been advocating the vertical layout a lot, it's clear that you prefer it that way.

@acf - Yes, and we're not hiding that. It's extremely clear that the readers (not creators) enjoy vertical layout. Statistics don't lie. There a reason top sites and apps like Instagram, FB, Tumblr, Pinterest, etc. are all top-to-bottom scroll reading experience. There's a reason why vertical is kicking major ass in Japan.

I don't think that's entirely true, on the contrary, scrolling narrow stripes on a 1920x1080 px laptop display is what feels funny there I understand that the majority in your stats read on mobile phones but people reading on PCs or laptops aren't such a minority,

Sorry to break the news, but PC users are the minority on Tapastic. Most creation is done on laptops. Most creators read on laptops. Most readers read on phones and tablets. You guys are the minority. What you see around you is different by countries and cities because some places are just slower with technology. Do you carry around laptops (for other than a job)?

Isn't it at least possible to change the limit of image width to about 1500 px for readers to be able to read even double pages when the story needs it?

No, it's honestly been extremely painful with what we have already. We have different file types including gifs. We have thousands of different sizes that are adjusted to fit various mobile screens. I think many of you underestimate the difficulty of building and maintaining a platform that can scale to accommodate millions of users.

I have an existing comic with over 100 pages that I migrated to Tapastic with the Inkblazers closure

Why did inkblazer close down? I had a chance to meet Victor a couple of weeks ago in Palo Alto, CA. It just couldn't scale. Not enough readers (not even a fraction of Tapastic's). We are here to help you find success in this digital / mobile generation.

There's an app called Scrollon which features comics that use a horizontal scrolling format. Cool concept, but limited to the works of the creators of the app, so it isn't the greatest in terms of selection.

Yes! Even for Scrollon, it takes a bit getting used to for creators. Doug Lefler even says that the content has to be created from scratch to make it flow naturally. Cool stuff tho.

never understood why a horizontal scroll is not considered?

No we considered it. Tapastic did not start out as a infinite scroll experience. However, we changed it after a year and it was one of the best changes. Options provide a horrible experience. Studies show giving too many choices to readers only confuses them. It's a big challenge from a technical standpoint as well.

I hated the 90º tilted panels when:

I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I was just amazed... WHOA~

I create in both formats and release them on different series

Why do you put page #s..? As a reader, I feel it's unnecessary. More of a distraction...IMO

know it's popular now and great for gag short comics

I'd say it's popular not only for gag, but for comics in general including story-driven comics.

but all the ideas you can use it for get old quickly

I don't think it matters. Take a look at Comico's manga panels that are just vertically laid out without effects. Creative is great, but it's not a requirement.

BOTTOM LINE - Tapastic is all about the mobile. And on the mobile, vertical is where we are literally betting our money. If you don't believe us then it's really your choice. The trend has started and I guarantee you those who took the risk and time to adopt the "new way" will reap the biggest benefit. 2015 is the year when we are beginning to put more money behind our words.

Like @michaelson said, there are many options out there for "page" format. But, there a reason Tapastic is the go-to destination for comics...and it's only gonna be better when we update our shitty iOS app and launch an iPad App. Trust the Tapastic staff and platform. It's going to be a wild ride.

[PotooGryphon]

Why do you put page #s..? As a reader, I feel it's unnecessary. More of a distraction...IMO

???
What do you find distracting about it?

Most comic series number their pages. It helps let the readers know what's a true comic post and what's an extra fluff post, not story associated (artist announcement, collab pieces, character sheets, etc.)

Like reading a book, the numbers are there to keep the reader on track with the story. Also, in my case on Tapastic, the page numbers separates the issues (the numbering restarts at the start of a new issue). Since I'm not a fan of the current method of grouping pages, I post each page in its own episode so I can respond and interact more with my readers on each page. The comments my readers leave are the best and usually lead to the most fun conversations. I'd hate to ever limit that or delete it.

There are readers that do use the page numbers as reference. A few times I've accidentally numbered the pages wrong, they've called me out asking if I've skipped a page or if I'm page is missing.

[minzinger]

@CyndiFoster

Maybe Just putting "17: [TItle]" would be less "distracting." "Distracting" is probably not the best word to describe. Seeing "Page" repeatedly on the left makes me focus on the word than the actual title which is more important.