Community-based NSFW Guidelines

[silverraven0]

Should we call in staff for clarify after all?

[ratique]

I'm not sure they will give much more information than what is already given. The guidelines are vague, because comics and novels are art forms and often require to be looked at in a case by case basis.

Two stories can be extremely similar, but slight changes in presentation can turn a scene from completely fine to gratuitous. I know that people are looking for clear rules like "no erect penis, no liquids, no extreme gore", as well as definitions of what all those rules include. Yet, even if you would compile a list like that, you will still have a million open questions and people showing you their scenes and ask: "But, is THIS ok?"

Overall, you will often have to use your own best judgement. If you aren't certain, use the Mature tag. If you are REALLY worried, censor.

I also don't understand why so many are hesitant to add the mature tag. It often attracts readers (I myself have a tendency to click on episodes marked M first, yes, I'm guilty), and as a creator I see it as my responsibility to ensure that my readers don't get into hot water by reading something they, or people around them, may find offensive. If I look through comics during my lunch break at work, I would be rather displeased at a random naked person popping up at my screen - and I'm someone who is perfectly comfortable with all sorts of bare skin being shown.

It isn't my choice as a creator to decide what my readers get to find offensive or not. I have to think of what others may have issues with, and work accordingly. Just because I have no issues with a torn off head, I don't get to leave off the mature rating just because I went light on the amount of blood shown.

I think Joanne's list is a great start and covers most scenes. Some unique cases will require to be up for discussion and staff's discretion.

[skicoak]

I also don't understand why so many are hesitant to add the mature tag.

I can't speak for everyone but I get complaints from folks who click in from our Facebook page, because you can't open mature labeled content without an account on Tapas.

Which in a comical catch 22, they're often reluctant to open because of the content on the front page.

Le sigh...

[ratique]

Which in a comical catch 22, they're often reluctant to open because of the content on the front page.

I can totally see that. Because of highly suggestive covers (see, one doesn't even need to draw naked people, even fully dressed ones are enough to figure out what is going to happen within a story) I never open Tapas on the big screen anymore if around people. It's also a bit tough to share the site to people who have a problem with BL.

I can't speak for everyone but I get complaints from folks who click in from our Facebook page, because you can't open mature labeled content without an account on Tapas.

They could create an account using Facebook - it's quite literally 3 clicks and made as easy as possible. While I understand that any additional action from a potential reader is asking for a lot, but in this case, the 'protection' of everyone who might stumble upon your work is a higher priority.

[mariusthered]

It's also a bit tough to share the site to people who have a problem with BL.

that was a point i have been wanting to talk about for a while i just did not really know a good way of approaching the subject. I have had people tell me they stay way from the site because of the amount of bl comics on here. maybe this is for another thread but just wanted to comment on that.

[vothnthorvaldson]

That's exactly my problem.
I have obviously no problem with BL covers as, being two guys in a romantic relationship. Not at all. I'm myself pansexual and actually have a m/m relationship in my comic.

But I have a problem with most of those covers being highly sexualised, often mostly naked (but that's guys, so it's ok? WTF!), and even sometimes already giving you a feeling it's going to be abusive.

BUT! It's not okay to show skin in a not sexual context. How is that logical?

[xabelmind]

I have had people tell me they stay way from the site because of the amount of bl comics on here

And it's an ironic situation, cause judging by number in the list of genres, BL is the second one with less works

But I have a problem with most of those covers being highly sexualised, often mostly naked (but that's guys, so it's ok? WTF!), and even sometimes already giving you a feeling it's going to be abusive.

I agree, I would be okay with that covers if they matched what's inside... and inside at most you find censored content under the Mature Content sign

They want to sell and also avoid any kind of problem with the content, and I guess that's why they mantain ambiguous guidelines but censor all their works.

Personally I would still prefer for all sites to have very technical and straightforward instructions on exactly what objects, scenarios, bodyparts (+in which state those bodyparts can be) and actions can be displayed/described, and to what extent.

I like your comment but this line surprised me

Many people is asking for crystal clear guidelines, but at the same time I think if they do that, they just would get to Webtoons level of censorship and... since there's a good chunk of people interested in mature content, they would be losing market

[mariusthered]

Many people is asking for crystal clear guidelines, but at the same time I think if they do that, they just would get to Webtoons level of censorship and... since there's a good chunk of people interested in mature content, they would be losing market

agreed. personally I like things just the way they are on here. if the censorship becomes too tight I am one creator who could end up searching for a new home for his comic. the way i see it if people are aware of the sort of content they should expect from what comic/ book they are reading they should not be upset by the content. a NSFW sticker is enough to do just that without becoming constrictive with the creators.

[ISNEKO]

No crystals.

Keep being vague as hell so can can write perv things.

[xabelmind]

@mariusthered, @ISNEKO
Even saying what I said, Tapas is one of the communities with the most clear and open to creators with MC guidelines that I saw until now (along with Smackjeeves). I think they're more aware than many out there of the difference between art and porn without plot

They can act contradictory with their own production, but this part in their guidelines (I quote it from @joannekwan quote):

For example, depictions of violence, sex, or nudity for diegetic, artistic, or educational purposes are more likely to be allowed than gratuitously graphic ones.

Is gold, they're demostrating (or at least pretending ) they really know about the field where they're working

To finish, the universe is relative, let those guidelines be relative They stated there their power to take your work and/or account down if they consider it and without giving reasons. Any other middly reasonable problem they may have, they'll inform you -shrugs shoulders-

Above all that, it will only be you against your own prejudices about what or what not

Greetings

[JeanGuillet]

somehow Tapas' guidelines seem more artist & writer friendly than the proposed community clarification. at least follow Tapas' lead and allow for context rather than being puritanical about it. guess that makes me on the 'not crystal' side.

A 13+ tag is also meaningless because you agree that you're over 13 by using this website. Young kids are not supposed to be on here at all.

[LordVincent]

If a puritanical approach is the alternative then I would very much prefer vagueness, yeah.

Some of the attitudes expressed in this thread now in regards to certain content bother me quite a lot, and I am glad to see most people not biting on it for once and sticking to a narrative where artistic freedom is placed first.

Artistic freedom and respect for adult content is one of the things that makes Tapas stand out from its competitors. I guess I just wish we could live in a society where artistic freedom and clarity could coexist.

[phinality]

I think actually discussing with the community on what sort of guidelines we think Tapas means is good though. While I wholeheartedly believe in free speech and artistic expression, I don't think it's fair for some users to be flagged, while others aren't if the transgressions are comparable.

Anyways, I'm not completely sure about how accurate your points are for novels. I've heard some that get flagged and asked to be edited when they have less than 75% nudity/sex and marked as M. But, there's also a ton that don't. So vague. Also, I haven't read any with child molestation... But somehow, I just have a gut feeling that that's probably too heavy for Tapas... I've read some novels with child abuse and wayyyy too much non-consensual sex though

[joannekwan]

@phinality Oh I've come across a novel that had an incestuous relationship between a father and his underaged son. I'm sure if it had more subs and views it would get flagged. Which leads into the whole 'issue' of things flying under the radar simply because they aren't popular enough to be spotted. Personally I'm not going to flag anything I see that's 'problematic' but I'm sure there are people out there who are willing to do so particularly if a series does have a decent readership.

@JeanGuillet I don't mean to be puritanical with these guidelines, they are simply set up so that new users have a clearer understanding of what they can post without a high risk of getting flagged. I'm not that stringent myself, like, I wouldn't go on a reporting spree over anything other than bot accounts with spam. But I did experience my own series getting flagged for sexual content and had to amend some pages. It wasn't fun so I'm just trying my best to help others out. If I'm overreaching @ratique is free to close and unlist this thread.

[nostalgicroxas]

On Violence...
Tapas seems even more vague than most sites. Depictions of violence can include: guns, swords/fantasy weapons, absurds amount of blood (see anything Kenshin based), and varying degrees of torture.

Now in comics, there's clever ways to hide this stuff visually. But in writing, not so much. If my character is being run through with a sword, I'm going to say that. That said I have see writing where a character being cut involves, although brief, mentions of more than just blood coming out of the wound - fat and tendons for example - to illustrate how deep the injury is.

Like, where is the line? Boiled down, someone being cut through and no real description beyond that and their symptoms of the injury, that's not enough to warrant a Mature flag in my opinion. Whereas someone being cut and a description of blood flowing out of them with fat, or their innards coming out (see Saiyuki Gaiden manga. You've been warned.) definitely warrants a Mature flag. But that's two extremes.

[phinality]

And yeah, that's a very good point. But the problem is, there's a ton of really popular stories that don't follow Tapas guidelines too? So that's just... Huh?

[joannekwan]

Are there any that you can DM me that aren't premium so I don't have to unlock episodes to see what standard they set?

[silverraven0]

I'm the kinda person that doesn't really know the boundary and kinda doubting everything about the vague guidelines so I will say that this will help but with some personal modifications on the creators side.

But with that said I'm glad someone put this up together though not completely covering everything.

[joannekwan]

Thanks, yeah still doing detective work to try and get at least a limp baseline for all the sections. haha

[phinality]

Okay, maybe I jumped the gun when I said a ton "don't follow guidelines". There's just a ton that... Are a bit more mature or in the gray area? I'll pm some that I can think of off the top of my head to you.