Ditching Apple iOS

[djwaglmuffin]

Serious question:

What would happen if Tapas ditched the Apple iOS? Would people with an apple product no longer have access to content? Or would you lose out on revenue or both?

I mean, are you or are you not tired of your creators being punished by an outside source over content that these people aren't even taking the time to read or engage? That, across platforms, we are being censored all because some corporate shill doesn't know the difference between porn and gesture or the difference between gratuitous violence and context?

There are creators, right now, who are being censored for NO reason whatsoever; victims of a faceless algorithm nobody thought to fix so it wouldn't specifically target artists.

I generally like posting my work here and I love the people I've connected with but...I'm sick of being threatened like this when all I want to do is tell a complete story and share that with everyone willing to read it. We do NOT deserve this and I would really like to know how bad it would be for you if you stood up for us.

[djwaglmuffin]

And another things:

Why not block the accounts of the people who are flagging the content, especially if the content was not in violation of your ToS?

Like I said on twitter, some of these people are perverts or trolls or kids getting around the age gateway by plugging in something bogus. Why do artists deserve to get censored when we're probably just being targeted by some jerk who couldn't get free art out of us?

Yeah, this requires you open a department dedicated to that end with actual humans but I think this idea would solve A LOT of problems.

[punkarsenic]

i think cutting off the apple market as tapas moves further and further towards app-priority would be too drastic a move for them. itd cut off a large income stream for tapas (not for us, but tapas does facilitate our income stream...)

people should stand up to apple. theyre too powerful and theyre acting out of line. i dont really expect tapas to do it though. maybe if there was some kinda wider boycott? dunno

[Greetings]

What would happen if Tapas ditched the Apple iOS? Would people with an apple product no longer have access to content? Or would you lose out on revenue or both?

Probably wouldn't be a wise business decision considering billions of people still use those products. I'd personally rather they censor and we put our NSFW content on Patreon. Even if they did theoretically ditch Apple, I'm guessing we would also lose a lot of readers too.

[Freemints30]

I being seeing this kinda of shit on all platforms(some worse than others), and either parents (or even worse a sensitive person with no kids but pull think of the children) who can't take care of their own kid, a misguided child with no supervision or some jackass who is just malicious. None get punishment or flagging restrictions

Android is not as I think but tapas is blocked in my country so I can't say. I just wish they had a better system to refute flags and worse punishments for false flagging, But corporations are too cowardly and lazy for this. I hate it.

[Shanny8]

Tapas is not going to ditch iOS and the Apple App store- it gives them WAY more reach than when they first started, plus it's more than likely an easy access to revenue with their premium comics.

[therealbereth]

I totally get you; it's frustrating and I imagine that it's even harder as a comic artist than as a writer because people see a "violent" image and flag without context – as opposed to, say, a wall of text that no one bothers to read for (false) flagging. Even so, I feel threatened as a writer as well, because there's some... dark stuff I'm planning. Add to that people randomly flagging LGBTQIA+ content because they don't like it, and we're all in hot water. >_>

Companies not caring about the difference between violence and the glorification of said violence really feel like the nail in a small creator's coffin. Especially since it's basically two companies with more or less a monopoly that dictate ALL apps (twitter, tumblr, tapas...).

That said, I don't think it would be wise for Tapas to just... pull out of the iOS market. How are they supposed to pay their premium creators then? I think Tapas relies on iOS as an income source and confronting them would be dangerous, to say the least. As a company, Tapas feels way too small to really start a boycott, sadly. I would like to see companies/websites stand up to this injustice, but how are they supposed to do that if the power lies with Apple (and Google)?

Ultimately, the problem lies with the US prudery. Seeing as Apple as well as Google are US companies and they more and more cave in to outraged parents who are too lazy or too overwhelmed to see after the content their kids consume, it really doesn't seem as if there's much to be done about the current situation – until some bigger fry, so to speak, come along and let them have it.

[joannekwan]

Unfortunately, the mobile market is too huge to abandon.
I'd rather an app cut of some content but with links or direction to the mobile browser where all content can roam free than no app at all.

[djwaglmuffin]

You know, my idea of blocking the flagger is becoming more and tempting.

And, for the other points, I understand money in this business for a company like Tapas is important, but I would like to see more thought go into these deals than just assuming we're all going to be fine.

[mariusthered]

lets face it this is bigger than just comics.

Apple, google. facebook, Disney, Amazon these company's are not only dictating our entertainment they are moulding our societies. And it's happening for the very same reason Tapas cannot just tell apple to stuff it, money and lots of it. Greed has taken over and is at the heart of everything and is why we are living in such sad times.
I'm with you on what you say but Tapas has done what it can to support the creators here, they could have just said we are changing the rules again and just kicked out all who don't fit. if that happened lots of us will have nowhere to go, webtoons won't have my comic and some of the lesser sites i would not trust. I cannot say I have an answer to this but I guess we just have to go with the flow for now and see what happen's.

[NanettesClouds]

The whole apple thing has got me thinking about this a lot.

The tech industry is really just a huge war over institutional power. In ye olden day the wars were fought over land and reasources but now it's a war fought over attention and data. Content creators are - in a lot of ways - the footsoldiers of this war, because we are providing the stuff that people want to pay attention to.

As more and more of our lives move to online spaces we effectively become citizens of the platform we subscribe to, and as artists, it's sad to say that these platforms have a lot of power over us, what we create, the mediums we work in, the very format of the media we make (IE instagram 4-panel comics and Tapas/Webtoons long scrolly comics) - because they are increasingly becoming our primary method of communicating with eachother, and finding an audience, and ultimately making money off of our work (though, most platforms are effectively just paying us in exposure.)

Re: twitter zine discourse.
As artists we gotta become less reliant on content algorithms and the internet - zines are a really good for this. Otherwise we are effectively painting-goblins for apple, facebook, microsoft, twitter, etc.

They benefit off of our content en mass more than any of us ever will individually - even wildly successful full time content creators.

A lot of what I'm saying also applies to tapas - but tapas at the very least has made an active effort in funding the artists on this platform - which is a big reason I use the platform (even though I have not made that much money here, I at least appreciate the gesture.)

One of the reasons I've been staying away from Webtoons is because they only pay you if you A) have enough of a following. B) Exclusively make content for their platform. Which are thing's i'm not okay with.

To get back on topic - what apple is doing sucks. Until there's a larger movement against the control of large tech companies though, the best thing artists can do is try to find ways to be less reliant on them.

[rajillustration]

Yeah Apple is freakin outrageous right now, because Tapas is a publisher, in a sense, being published by another publisher who only wants to make children appropriate content???? Like the Nook app exists on Apple, and the Nook lets you buy whatever Ebook that Barnes and Nobles supplies--many of which are smut, so this whole situation of Tapas' creators getting tossed over stray body hairs makes little legal sense to me. Like Apple can absolutely ask Tapas to do this, that is within Apple's rights, but it's like...they're not going after the Nook app holding all of Game of Thrones. They're not going after Netflix for having tons of R rated movies. It's clearly more to do with who has the money right now to push back.

Maybe eventually people will get bored and stop flagging comics that have a couple swears?

[joannekwan]

It's clearly more to do with who has the money right now to push back.

That's been my thought. Particularly when people bring up Webtoons and how the comics mirrored there are unaffected.

[djwaglmuffin]

But webtoon is having a censorship issue too, though. Ecchi content is being banned isn't it?

[michaelson]

Hey everyone!

Just wanted to jump in and try to shed some more light and possibly give an answer to this question.

We do NOT deserve this and I would really like to know how bad it would be for you if you stood up for us.

I agree that the creators do not deserve this type of treatment, and as for how bad it would be us if we "stood up" for the creators - that's a little bit more of a nuanced conversation.

We have been going back and forth with Apple in order to get broader approvals for content and also pushing back on certain false positive flags. The problem is the sheer volume of flags that we need to review, resubmit, get feedback, review, confirm (or re-submit again, to get feedback, review, re-submit... you get the picture). I believe we as a company have done a lot in order to push back as much as we can while not being removed from the app store entirely.

Why not block the accounts of the people who are flagging the content, especially if the content was not in violation of your ToS?

So, this isn't really how it works. The auditing team from our mobile publishers have open access to all the content on the platform. We can't block them from access.

Even if they did theoretically ditch Apple, I'm guessing we would also lose a lot of readers too.

And potential readers; the truth is, we actually get a lot of inbound readers that find us organically on the app store.

---

But beyond that, the truth is a lot of our premium creators rely on the revenue from the app stores in order to make a full time living or subsidize their work. Unilaterally making the decision to not publish the Tapas app on iOS would negatively impact a large portion of the premium creators - it would need to be a majority decision from these creators for us to even consider the option.

Also, a majority of Support (tipping) is done through iOS and Android due it's relatively ease of use and better support with watch-to-earn ads and install-based campaigns. A lot of readers utilize these features in order to better support creators they love.

So, all in all, there's a lot riding on our ability to publish through these major distributors and we've invested a lot of development resources in trying to get our apps to be where they are today. If we were to pull our app from iOS, that would also cost some of our engineers their jobs.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, there are a lot of compounding factors as to why we need to publish with iOS. Hope that helps.

[NanettesClouds]

I just wanna say I really appreciate how transparent you guys have been during this whole situation. This is why I use your platform. Thank you.

(also apple sucks I'm sorry y'all have to put up with this!)

[joannekwan]

Yeah. They threw down hard on their censorship several months ago. But as I don't use the site, I'm not sure what the current atmosphere is there.

And with Webtoons' limited/non-existant communication, I don't know if their censorship is app platform related or they just wanted to do it for themselves. And what they decide to pull without any warning to the creator is questionable.
They're like … all over the place.

[djwaglmuffin]

Okay, so...I'm glad you got back to us on this, really. I might be a little hasty in assuming you're not fighting for us but I have my own...reasons why this bothers me so much...that aside:

Here is where I am coming from: We are dealing with this censorship crap on just about every social media platform so it's anxiety inducing when you pour your heart and soul into a project, only to have a 3rd party shoot it down because OH GOD, these of-age gay couples kissed!

Tumblr, for example, flagged art for NO reason and took so many people down and it's been hell trying to recover so...it feels like we don't have a place where there is an audience to share our work without fear of being "censored" for stupid stuff. And at the whims of a computer algorithm that, again, can't tell the difference between porn and gesture studies.

[KRWright]

If Tapas were bigger, it might be able to wrangle the same kind of deal as Amazon and some other apps have where they don't abide by certain codes because of some legal loophole... I can't find the article that explained it, but there is a way around it that Amazon and some other providers exploit, but even they sometimes get hit. I think it must be pretty hard to match the criteria needed for the loophole though as well, otherwise tons of apps would be using it.

[NanettesClouds]

..it feels like we don't have a place where there is an audience to share our work without fear of being "censored" for stupid stuff. And at the whims of a computer algorithm that, again, can't tell the difference between porn and gesture studies.

Have you heard of our lord and savior zines?