Diversity in webcomics

[knightjj]

Hey guys I understand you are passionate to tell your opinions on certain specific stories and writers but please stay on the topic of the tread!

[shiftingverses]

With my comic it always felt natural to have a racially diverse cast as it's set across a world stage and deals with the origins of religion and culture. However, as it's fantasy they don't massively represent our own reality or tensions, as it felt ugly to transpose those divisions over from our world. As such there's no animosity between people of different melanin levels, but there is between cultures and faiths. I wasn't interested in using a fantasy world to explore our own world's racial problems, it felt like it would inescapably reductive and almost second-hand.

Another thing I've struggled with in my comic is representation of sexuality. One of my main characters is gay, but my characters aren't generally defined by their sexuality and the plot moves at quite a pace. So having it mentioned apropos of nothing feels kind of like I'm just doing it for brownie points. In the current chapter I'm drawing now, I feel there's enough hints and general feeling to get it across. In general I've found that people don't talk openly about their relationships to one another unless directly asked, so having a stoic character do so just to establish themselves as queer feels off for them. If I was more explicit with things, I could get that coveted BL tag though, so maybe it's something to consider

[keii4ii]

And I'm glad someone pointed out that an all-one-thing-even-if-it's-not-white-and-straight cast is not diverse... haha. It's not white, no, but it's not diverse.

I think what they mean is the existence of a minority-centric cast brings more diversity to the pool of stories out there, even if the cast within that story may not be diverse. Another thing to consider is this:

I think what's more sorely needed is diverse voices telling stories, which will inherently lead to more diverse default experience bases and perspectives.

Some creators live in monoethnic places, and they may want to tell stories with settings similar to their own home. That may entail having little to no ethnic diversity. Yet it's still valuable as far as diversity goes, because it's a perspective different from, say, conventional Hollywood. There's value in having their voices heard.

(Still doesn't mean they can't have other kinds of diversity, though -- e.g. someone mentioned Avatar's Aang being vegan as an example of non-racial, non-sexual/gender diversity representation, and I was like, that's so true!)

[trinkettrancemusic]

That's sort of precisely what I mean - storytellers from tiny isolated towns and villages are needed as much as storytellers living in Beijing or Juba or Istanbul or Toronto or New York or Tokyo or Seoul or Oslo, or rich jet setting nomads, even. Any and every perspective can be valuable and have a truth to tell.

[keii4ii]

Yeah, I knew what you meant and agree with you. I was just quoting you to respond to another person. Sorry if that wasn't clear!

[BlueSentinel]

I don't think its the diversity in of itself that's the problem. The problem, or rather annoyance, is how trendy making your cast "diverse" is , but only one kind of diverse, that is ethnics and sexual orientation almost exclusivly. It's less about having a character that is gay because "because", but rather because webcomic artists feel the need to fill the representation gap that has been present in the past in public media.
The thing is, its not really uncommon anymore. It's rather oversaturated. There is an astounding number of gay/bisexual characters considering the fact that they make up less than 5% of the population. The same goes for ethnics to a (way) less intense degree.
I think individuall webcomics are not to "blame" for their diversity, there is always a reasonable uhh reason inuniverse why the cast is diverse. But if every webcomic offers the same set of cookie cutter identities in overabundance it gets stale and screams " look Im trendy", wether it was meant that way or not.

[scythe]

Indeed. I was once reading a comic, really getting into it, then it started getting really preachy. It was so forced and unnatural and really ripped me out of the story. The characters were no longer people with real motivations, but rather they were clearly just mouthpieces for the writer's personal viewpoints. And I didn't even necessarily disagree with those viewpoints, but it was how it was just political propaganda being yelled at me which made me stop reading. It was not how the story was sold to me, and for the first couple of chapters it was otherwise great and all made sense.

We've all seen those godawful scenes from Marvel comics where they've just turned beloved characters into political mouthpieces. It's so off putting and worse, LAME.

I maintain that 99% of the population of comic readers couldn't care less who the characters are that they're reading. They don't care what race they are, or what gender or sexuality, they just want interesting characters and stories they like.

People don't love the old superheroes because they're straight white males, they love them for all the reasons that made them great in the first place.

[ogawaburukku]

I don't want to speak for the other person, but I'm pretty sure scythe meant exactly what they said, where a comic that says they are diverse yet only include the same kinds of people, minorities or otherwise, is not diverse. If it's a minority-centric cast, then that's what it is. Nothing wrong with it, but if the story is about six hispanic lesbians who work at a coffee shop, I wouldn't call it diverse. Diversity involves variations. Technically, diversity doesn't even have to mean racial/sexual/etc diversity, it just means the cast isn't composed of carbon copies of each other. But of course, these days diversity is mostly used to mean ethnic backgrounds, sexual preferences, and I guess dietary preferences as well, if you consider your mention of Avatar-- though I think Avatar was diverse for many more reasons than Aang's veganism, haha.

I do agree that diverse voices are needed, though I'm also not going to boo the guy who lives in Whitesville, Connecticut and wants to write about his quirky small town hijinks. But webcomics especially have the advantage in that nobody has to worry about studio clout or Hollywood pressure to tell a story the way someone else sees it. This is a great place and time for voices who are not usually heard to be heard

[ogawaburukku]

uhh reason inuniverse why the cast is diverse.

I once read a comic where the heroine and her boyfriend woke up in an alternate universe where men only dated men and women only dated women and anyone who dated the opposite sex was an outcast. It was a pretty interesting idea, though I don't remember if the comic ever attempted to solve the issues of procreation, haha.

[trinkettrancemusic]

Cool - 'tis all good (and it gave me a nice in to further espouse some thoughts on the matter). Checking out your comic now, btw, and the art is gorgeous!

[anitacomics]

Hi there! I also write my own comic, and asked myself the same question. My answer has been to not actually check. Remember the school books with the obligatory asian character, or the mandatory black guy in movies? It's always clear the production decided they needed to be politically correct. It doesn't have to be realistic, but it doesn't have to look forced.

I do tend to have mainly white straight characters, because I'm from a not very diverse country, and 99% of my friends and acquaintances happen to be white and straight. Still, writing the characters with an open mind I already got a black girl, an asian guy, two gay old men, and an adopted kid.

In my experience, an honest writing does better than a checklist. We are writing in a moment when diversity seems to be one of the focal point in art wether it's there or not; as for every other aspect of your art, do not do it to try and fill some expectations.

[BlueSentinel]

I once read a comic where the heroine and her boyfriend woke up in an alternate universe where men only dated men and women only dated women and anyone who dated the opposite sex was an outcast. It was a pretty interesting idea, though I don't remember if the comic ever attempted to solve the issues of procreation, haha.

reminds me of this video:

its a good watch.

[R.n.P]

@scythe @BlueSentinel I'm really happy to see there are people like you that share my views on this topic.

[punkarsenic]

jacked individuals that look masculine n all cuz that's what attracts female readers(majority)

thats definitely not true. the jacked white men are a power fantasy for male readers, the edginess (that is actually a very very safe marketing tactic and therefor, not edgy) is also directed at men - the comics in the mainstream marketed at girls typically have quirky, awkward young women as main characters. theyre more light-hearted, and talk more about feelings and politics and all that boring, non-manly, no-blowing-shit-up crap that men just hate. (theres also a space for comics abt older women like capt marvel and spiderwoman that involve smore mature issues, like grief or pregnancy. i think the main trend is the allowance to slow down and consider emotions and other, more interesting things. you can tell these are my kinda comics)

everyone hates diversity(and I don't mean they hate it cuz of bigotry or something)

nah man, its a specific demographic of people that hate diversity, not everyone. if it was everyone, diverse things would be bombing all the time, instead of whitewashed action movies.

as comics are goods n services, just like any other merchandise are meant to satisfy the readers and not to show diversity.

both can happen simultaneously, you know? and there are lots of successful comics and other pieces of media in the west telling the stories of poc, or women, or lgbt people - or all three simultaneously. theres a market for it. its reality; america is actually very diverse, and most people will be living in very diverse places, and will be able to relate to people that arent exactly like them. and anyway, as michaela coel said, "if you dont get it, its not for you"

[NickRowler]

america is actually very diverse, and most people will be living in very diverse places,

Well, America is diverse however not everywhere in America is very diverse. There are higher levels of diversity in the major cities yet it tends to be mostly white in rural areas.

I live in a very diverse area, so racial diversity is sort of the norm for me. To the point where if a film/show/comic is not diverse, it looks weird to me.

[SleepingPoppy]

a comic that says they are diverse yet only include the same kinds of people, minorities or otherwise, is not diverse

It is less diverse in universe, but more diverse when looking at the broader genre. Ie, most movies have white straight male protagonist, so a movie with a black straight male protagonist is adding diversity over all.

A comic that says they are diverse yet only includes the same kinds of people, minorities or otherwise is not varied, but it could still be considered diverse! Semantics, I know. I'm not trying to argue so much as offer a different way to look at it the same thing.

[ogawaburukku]

I don't mind arguing semantics XD It's easier to argue since it's not easy to hurt people's feelings when it's a semantics vs morals issue.

I think adding a comic about Asians by Asians to a rack with mostly Marvel superheroes can diversify the collection, sure, but I'm gonna have to keep disagreeing that a comic saying "This is a diverse comic" makes it sound like there is diversity within that comic, and not as a general "adding diversity to the comic pool" view. If the author said "Diversify your webcomics list!", implying their comic will fill a missing social gap or something would not be a false statement.

Not really a big deal, haha, but that's my view, anyway.

[ogawaburukku]

It looks weird to me and I live in a homogenous country where I am the super minority. If I am watching an American film or TV series, where the show usually takes place in NY or LA or something, I expect diversity. I've been watching older 90s shows lately (like Friends) and it's pretty bizarre seeing a show taking place in NY where the cast is all white (if you consider Jewish to be white, and some people do not) for a chunk of the series. But when it comes to non-American stuff, I really don't care.

I think a large ethnic mixture, globally speaking, isn't the norm, and a lot of Americans don't get that, but I do like variety in the cast. Characters all look the same to me if they are all white, blonde, and good looking XD

[R.n.P]

both can happen simultaneously, you know? and there are lots of successful comics and other pieces of media in the west telling the stories of poc, or women, or lgbt people - or all three simultaneously. theres a market for it. its reality; america is actually very diverse, and most people will be living in very diverse places, and will be able to relate to people that arent exactly like them. and anyway, as michaela coel said, "if you dont get it, its not for you"

I've replied someone else that said the same thing to me bout media being able to sell n show diversity, it is possible but as a business man the number one priority you have is to make gains n profits, diversity doesn't matter in the market, what matters is if you satisfy your customers, if all the movies you consider 'diverse(though to me I just see all movies as movies not judging by diversity) were to be poorly written as the new diverse marvel comics they wouldn't sell, they didn't think that by adding the diverse characters they now had the right to make a poorly written story and that is what I meant by that statement earlier, diversity doesn't matter in business, its not like because of that you would just suddenly become rich

nah man, its a specific demographic of people that hate diversity, not everyone. if it was everyone, diverse things would be bombing all the time, instead of whitewashed action movies.

Its not a particular demographic, if its like that then you have instantly labelled a group of individuals that you don't even who they are in a negative light, I could rephrase what I said n use majority rather than everyone since there are some that for some reason love diversity irrespective of any negative effect it could have on a story. There are lots of good stories especially in Marvel that has been ruined by diversity as lousy writers see those diverse characters as a medium to preach their self righteousness, nobody in my opinion gives a damn bout diversity when it comes to comics cuz to me as a reader I couldn't care less, all I want is a good interesting story n a good character with motivations and goals.

thats definitely not true. the jacked white men are a power fantasy for male readers, the edginess (that is actually a very very safe marketing tactic and therefor, not edgy) is also directed at men - the comics in the mainstream marketed at girls typically have quirky, awkward young women as main characters. theyre more light-hearted, and talk more about feelings and politics and all that boring, non-manly, no-blowing-shit-up crap that men just hate. (theres also a space for comics abt older women like capt marvel and spiderwoman that involve smore mature issues, like grief or pregnancy. i think the main trend is the allowance to slow down and consider emotions and other, more interesting things. you can tell these are my kinda comics)

To me the whole women don't like comic characters that are jacked n prefer silly comics is stereotypical(but I do understand that most stereotypes are based on facts) n not true cuz I've seen lots of women that read our kinda comics cuz it is also targeted at female readers, the time when comics like those were popular n all were the same periods when body building was still a popular thing and women loved jacked individuals at that time, so that kinda marketing was aimed mostly at women, men would read anything that has enough action n badass scenes but for women that make up a majority of the population, they would also need to grab a portion of that market that are attracted to jacked men back in those days but over time cultural preferences and tastes change and evolve so now the comics are aimed mostly at men and the jacked characters can't be changed to aim for a market that has already moved on and to the loyal market there would be a backlash if they were to start trying to change iconic characters for a slim chance of getting another market to join in again.

[monotone_ink]

'Diversity' really does depend on the context of the story, especially the setting.
In a teeming city that acts as a center of trade and immigration, of course there'll be people from all over the world, and thus it would be realistic to have a diverse cast of ethnic backgrounds in the story.
If the setting is that of a village or network of villages that have been long untouched by the outside world, of course it would be realistic if they all looked similiar, because they have the same ethnic backgrounds.

The one thing to avoid when writing diversity into your work is treating it like a checklist. Adding a lesbian character or a character who suffers from anorexia does not automatically make your story more interesting or profound. It feels shoehorned if they've been added for the sake of their presence. Their unique labels, sexuality, genders, or disorders shouldn't be what defines them - it should merely be a part of their character as a whole.

I don't like talking about diversity too much though, since a large group of people are super sensitive to this subject, especially with things like 'white washing' (really disliked this with the live SNK adaptations, as the complaints just seemed unreasonable).

In the end, I don't give a flying fuck about how many LGBT or disabled characters are in your cast - as long as they are actual characters and the product is great, you'll make me happy.