Sep 2020
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Sep 2020
Sep 2020
Shanny8
Sep '20

Going to say NO, free webcomics do not hurt the industry; they allow readers to read for free- and become invested in the creator and their [possible] art career. I know readers who have read my comic online and show their support for my physical work at conventions or buy my books online. I've had people who read my comic online and liked a character I created, and bought merch(stickers and prints) of said character.

What hurts, is coming out of the gate trying to charge for a comic and no one knows who you are and what your comic is about- having expectations of sales and not getting any is a sure way to depression; at least with a free webcomic readers can not only learn about your characters, but also learn who you are as a creator...plus you automatically build that audience that you want to sell to.

Once you establish yourself, you can always create other things to monetize.

As for the "people are always trying to get things for free"- if people genuinely like/support your work, they will pay and want you to do better. Be it Patreon, Ko-fi, Gumroad, or any other funding platform, they will invest in your work. Even if they dont have the money to do so- recommendations, shoutouts, and promoting your material can help you as a creator.

Mallory
Sep '20
1

I think the belly-aching is the same kind of capitalist belly-aching that occurs in any other industry: the power is taken away from the people with $$$ and given to people who don't have much, like, for instance, most consumers. In my experience as a consumer and an artist, people who like the work you do are MORE than happy to pay for it - even if you offer it for free! If it's a free webcomic, they will spread the word about your comic (like I did, when I did an analysis of Lackadaisy's art in front of my graphic novel writing class in university - and advertisement is an EXPENSIVE endeavour) or buy your merchandise, prints, or physical books. Now with patreon and ko-fi, they will just throw whatever money they think is appropriate for you in your direction, and AFAIK that's usually more than you'd earn by selling your work, because your consumer is now free to choose how much they pay for something AFTER they decided they liked it, and that usually results in higher $$ (I believe there was a study that looked at how much people tended to pay "by donation", and it ended up a higher value than what the item/experience would've been sold as if it had a ticket price).

It's just now instead of the artist/writer getting $0.50 (or less) for their work per reader and the rest going to moneybags above them, they get ALL of the money. Every last cent. And it's given to them completely willingly by people who already enjoyed their work and CHOSE to pay for it afterwards. That's gotta scare the bejesus out of the people who made their money ripping off creative people for decades, and so of course they're spreading lies and saying that they can't hire someone because they think their competition is FREE HOBBYIST CONTENT. I'm sorry, if you can't make money because you can't compete with content made by a non-professional with an advertisement budget of two peanut packets and networking that consists of their great aunt and that guy they barely talked to in 1st year, you don't deserve to make money at all.

Phantomlight
Sep '20
Shanny8

This comment! Gosh, superb! Yes, I agree! I've been following some creators for years now and even if I don't know them personally, I feel like I know bits and pieces and their works are just phenomenal. I support them however I can and also wherever I can. I may not always be able to, but I am always glad to, excited to!

There's sentiment that comes with watching the creator's art and writing skills evolve over time, coming back to an update each update day or days, it becomes inscribed in my heart for me. To buy a physical book means that much more to me as I've travelled on this journey with them in terms of following their work grow, progress, and know them a bit as a person. The creations people make, they're worth so much. Please value your works, put prices YOU think are appropriate on them, don't let others reprimand you for this price or that. There's no other work like yours and a lot of these creators on here especially work hard not only with making their comic but also organizing numerous different behind the scene things, the merch, the cons, the everything! The mindset some of these people have is ridiculous. In my opinion, the memories and the feeling these works spark, the community you can be part of, the friends you can make a while commenting and whatnot, that's priceless in my opinion. It's a wonderful opportunity, but instead of people saying "It should be free" it would be wonderful to hear those same people begin to be appalled that it's free.

Prometheus
Sep '20
Dane_Sherbet

Underbid is okay. Giving a good deal is okay, but I’m talking about giving such cheap rates, that it pretty much moves nearly all the traffic to them, and no one else can get any consumers. I know that’s what the business world is, but I feel like it’s really hurting artist communities, at least from what I’ve seen. Selling artwork that has a value of $60+ for $10, in my opinion, is really hurtful for other people trying to also make some money. That’s just my two cents, though.

thecrystalrook
Sep '20

oh for the love of-. I'm not tryna get into one of my usual socio-economic-capitalism-is-garbage rants, but the only "evil" ones are the massive corporations that suck the blood out of their artists to reap in absurd profits and give them pennies in return for pay. Free indie comics are not the problem.

Rhonder
Sep '20

Mmmm I think there's morsels of truth to the statement, but I think it's also very relative and on the subject of webcomics I don't think it's very accurate (and even on other topic areas it depends).

On paper I think it makes sense as like... an idealized economic principal. Theoretically if a good or service has an accepted standard rate, then most of the time people who price their product/service above that rate will have a hard time making sales, and those who under-price might see more sales because it's a good deal. But like the average should be the price that you're seeing most of the time. The problem comes when the quantity of people offering under-priced goods is so plentiful that the average consumer doesn't need to pay the average price, because there are always the under-priced options available. In that way the lower prices become the new average and anything above that will struggle. This can even trend far enough downwards that you see people overing goods and services for free just to try and establish themselves as noted in the OP, and that's overall bad for an industry because it crashes the perceived value. It takes a lot more work to try and raise that bar again if it's dropped that far than it does to lower it in the first place, as consumers will be reluctant to pay more for the same goods.

HOWEVER there are a few caveats. The first that's pretty widely applicable regardless of the subject matter is that there are just way too many individual people working in any established industry to feasibly corral all of them together to get on the same page about pricing. Even if a set average rate is decided upon by the key/major players, there will always be those that go out of their way to undercut a little bit to get an edge on the competition. Whether it be a lower average price, or periodic sales, or what have you. The above principal could possibly work in like... a closed and very controlled market, but in a free market it just won't. That's not how the human race works.

The other thing is that the principal strikes me as something that's mostly applicable to professional products and services, and not so much stuff that people make as a hobby or for fun. Like even if that were to be enforced in the professional realm, I don't think it would be reasonable to basically tell people "you either have to monetize that or you can't post it". If an artist or musician or writer or whoever wants to make things and share them for free, they can do so.

I think the place I've seen this talked about the most in the past (personally) has been on art forums when talking about art commission pricing? I've read word for word "don't under-price your work because it hurts the art community as a whole!" several times when looking into the subject. And to a degree it's true? Even then though there are several circumstantial factors that can play a part. 3 come to mind right away:

1.) It's not uncommon to see the radically lower prices being offered on products or services that are comparably lower quality than the "average". It's like you get what you pay for? People who need to try and shill their product or service but are still developing can't necessarily get the same rates and the veterans in their field, so they'll either get no sales at that price or need to lower it.

2.) Similarly, sometimes people slash prices out of desparation, if they need to make ends meet, or their store is going out of business and they need everything gone, or what have you. It's not ideal, but definitely understandable.

3.) Situations where you go down as low as "free" are also like... sometimes necessary evils for getting your foot in the door. Whether you're handing out free merch at a convention booth to get your product in people's hands, or posting a bunch of free illustrations to advertise your commission business, or working an unpaid internship to get your foot in the door at a company.

Alrighty so like looping back to webcomics... I think several of the above can apply, depending on the creator's situation. Maybe they're providing free content for fun or as a hobby, maybe it's because their skill level isn't high enough to garner payment on level with the pros, or maybe they're putting out high quality free work as a means to get their foot in the door? Regardless of the situation I don't feel like it's particularly detrimental to the industry at large. Especially one still as particularly niche as webcomics in general. (I feel like print comics are a different animal and this post is long enough so I'll call it good there lol)

thecrystalrook
Sep '20

To your point about underpricing and becoming the new average, this makes sense for goods and services that are generally competing with each other but it doesn't really make sense for comic books. We're not really competing with each other. If anything, we're here to help each other. I don't know a single comic book fan that says they will read Dragon Ball and ONLY Dragon Ball. We like multiple things and our choice to support a comic comes from whether or not we like the story or art, not if it's priced better. If a comic is priced horrendously, then it will be pirated. The only storytelling medium that really has competition in it is video games, and it's not really even the games that compete for the same reasons as above. It's the consoles that compete.

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20
Prometheus

What sort of moral obligation does a tradesman have towards a direct competitor? It's not like they're part of the same guild or union and are in a position to conspire together against the general public. An industry can be cutthroat and giving up any personal advantage can be like cutting your own throat.

It might be worthwhile to consider moving to place a where living is cheap, if this particular advantage rankles so much.

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20
thecrystalrook

All forms of entertainment are in competition with each other. There's only so many people in the world and only so many hours that they need to be entertained.

ToxicRamen
Sep '20

I don't think it is. I think being able to read webcomics online for free helps builds a fanbase for artist and if the webcomic is popular enough, people would buy books & other merch from the artists. I've been buying collected trades (via Kickstarter) of webcomics that I've enjoy reading like Trying Human and Ava's Demon.

rajillustration
Sep '20

I do think that as an industry, in general, artists need to be charging just a hell ton more. The rate for freelance illustration has not really risen although the cost of living absolutely has. But, the quote is still incorrect--"free art" on the internet isn't to blame for this--the blame goes to companies trying to pay artists as little as possible and taking as long as they can to do it. We really need some sort of union omg.

But, when it comes to webcomics or youtube musicians--that isn't actually "free." We get ad revenue, youtubers get the possibility of sponserships for their videos. You attract people to your patreons. It's all a business, and money is still absolutely involved, you just get paid at a different time than standard publishing. Webcomics is an investment that artists make. A thing that might make money in the future, if you play your cards right. Same with music youtubers.

thedude3445
Sep '20

I got into comics thanks to webcomics. Webcomics such as 8-bit Theater, Dinosaur Comics, and Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal helped me love the art form of free comics on the web, and that eventually led to me reading all sorts of comic work both online and on paper.

Free art does not hurt industries. It helps industries thrive.

NellieVP318
Sep '20

This is the first time I have seen an opinion like this. IMO, releasing your work for free is not hurting the industry. If anything, I see people moving to paid work once they have the confidence to switch for releasing their work from free to paid.

I think it call comes down to a person's confidence in their skills. Not everyone has a competitive drive and one person may simply just want to post their work for free without that stress. Personally, I wouldn't mind being paid but I also know going the paid work does take a damper at times from meeting with demands and expectations.

prunier
Sep '20

As it says "Ignorance is bliss"
As someone who lives in a country where comics aren't popular at all and where isn't enough comic corporations because of economic crisis are all the time, I just want to laugh at this statement because being an indie creator it's a great way for me to let other people from the globe to know my work and take some donations.

Puck
Sep '20

It´s 2020, kids read comics online and stream music. There is still a way to make money, you have to find out what you can offer that the other creators can´t offer and what the consumer wants to spend money on. You can´t change the market or how the internet works. I´m a musician and an illustrator. I grew up with the dream to live on selling vinyl records and comic books. Nobody buys that today, I can complain or be angry about it but that doesn´t change anything but my own mood or I can adapt to the market

Darth_Biomech
Sep '20
rajillustration

Well, to a degree, we are, actually. The reader has limited time during which he can read the stories. It's the reason why people are dropping them constantly and why some comics have tens of thousands of subs while others have three - they find something that suits their tastes more and\or can't spend time on your comic anymore (I for instance unable to keep track of more than 10-20 stories at a time, and still can't find time to catch up with the Stay Still Stay Silent, because for every bunch of pages I finally find time to read, the artist (via some unholy soul-selling to obtain inhuman working speed, I'm sure) releases twice as much more).

Like with that famous picture about the two cakes viewed by the artist and the consumer, that omits the small detail that there are not two but actually twenty thousand cakes with all sorts of flavors and quality, and the viewer can eat only 10 at best.

It is a curious question, but does it matter? Yeah while the artist gets nifty things out of it like sponsorships and patreons, for the viewer it still doesn't cost one penny to consume their work, as opposed to things that you must explicitly buy before you can enjoy them. The viewer isn't interested that "actually" the artist gets money out of what they're doing (Apart of maybe "hey cool, they'll keep making more free stuff for me!").

ghostmaya
Sep '20

I believe no~ you can see Manga, Tapas, webtoon and other webcomic platforms, they have free series to read but people are still willing to pay for featured/premium comics because there's still audience who really supports their favorite creators~ if free webcomics hurts the industry then there should be no featured/premium comics in the 1st place~

cleo_san
Sep '20

Free webcomics do NOT hurt the industry, the industry, as many of other posters have said, hurts itself with such a point of view.

I know of people who got into comics/mangas because of their artist friends. I have several friends who would not have dreamed of ever touching such a thing as a manga, then bought my little self-published indie-comic and are now manga and comic readers to the core.
I know of people who grew up together and motivated each other to eventually draw and publish their own comic (also my friend circle)
I know people, who have joined bigger publishers and about the ~2$ you get for delivering one page you spent 2 days on. (minus taxes).

Big Comic publishers / the comic industry is the one which underprices to the point, an artist has to work to exhaustion to make ends meet.
I'd rather support indie artists any day via ko-fi and patreon than buy an industry comic, because I know that the money I spend on supporting a person actually reaches that person almost completely (minus patreon/paypal fees, of course). I choose, which story I support, I follow "my" creator, have seen their struggles and their little anecdotes about their characters. I can see the person "behind" the story I love and this gives me as a consumer a completely different viewpoint. It makes those creators more "human" to me =)

I also think, that the "MONEYMONEYMONEY" attitude of the industry will eventually be the point which breaks it. The meddling in otherwise beautiful and creative stories by a 3rd party to the point they became bland and unoriginal and the unhealthy contracts artists sometimes sign... welp, let's just say that I think that there need to be some changes in the industry instead of blaming indie artists for their "free content".