Do you find it important to celebrate LGBTQ characters in anime, manga and movies?

[VersusVII]

My answer might be cintroversial, but I'll explain my point of view.
I think it's important to represent the LGBT+ community in every medium, but I hate when in a comics for example every character is queer and cis eteros are a minority or nowhere to be seen. Ok, I get for people from the LGBT it's important to see characters like themselves, but sometimes I feel like authors put them just to get more readers or that it's impossible that in a school and/or group of friends everybody it's queer at the end of the day.

Maybe my opinion is because I'm demisexual and I can't quite get bisexual and pans in general, so when I see all the charaters be in that spectrum I feel out of target for the comic. I can't find stories with eteros couples that don't end up in the Harmony section or be silly shojos where the protagonists take forever just to confess and than walk hand in the hand is the maximum aspiration...

[LunarScyphozoa]

I feel like stories where most (if not every) character is queer are fine and a bit more realistic than “this is a huge group of straight people and their one (1) queer friend” in all honesty.

[tarraxahum]

I have three different group of friends, something around 20 people in total maybe, and like... maybe two of us are cishet. We call them the token straights (lovingly).

Not trying to invalidate your feelings (hey, you're looking for a story that will make you feel the target demographic, that's only fair!), just saying, while the whole school is not very realistic, sure, a group of friends absolutely can be all LGBTQ x) Very, very often are, actually.

Just putting in my two cents as an author of one of those 'every character is queer' stories.

I hope you eventually find many stories that won't alienate you and be likeable to you at the same time tho :3

[NickRowler]

it's impossible that in a school and/or group of friends everybody it's queer at the end of the day.

Queer kids often like to hang out with other queer kids. Usually because there is less awkwardness about being LGBTQ. Like a transperson is probably going to get along better with another transperson where they don't have to constantly explain trans issues to them.

As for schools. There was an alternative school which was around when I was a teen that used to only accept LGBTQ kids. Most of the kids who went there were bullied at their old school. This was also in early 2000s and transkids would attend the school because it was probably one of the few places that was OK with transpeople at the time. I think there were some threats targeted at the school so I don't know if it is still around.

EDIT: I found it

Harvey Milk High School

[VersusVII]

I think some stories are getting to the point of "a group of queer characters and their straight friend". Ok, as @tarraxahum says in a group of friends it can happen, but I find difficult to believe in a group of 10 people, each of them represents a different aspect of the rainbow. That's it.

[Wingstofly]

Praising the author for making the bold move of adding queer character, you got it.

[tarraxahum]

Genuine question: do you find it more realistic if, while everyone in the group is queer, they don't all represent different aspects of the rainbow, but rather the same/neighboring ones?

('Cause let's be honest, that's kinda how those friend groups often gather together)

[allatonce]

I dunno! I think a story can be perfectly fine without gay characters. I think a story can be perfectly fine without straight characters! I think it's really up to the artist or author or whatever, if they think a gay character is good for their story or wants to have a gay character in their story, that's great, go for it! However, I don't think gay characters are something that NEED to be there, or that should be added solely because "oh no my comic doesn't have gay! have to add gay!" Theres a difference between wanting to add a lgbtq character because I WANT TO LMAO, and adding one because it needs to be there for the audience.
So no, it's not important. But I sure do enjoy when it happens!

[LunarScyphozoa]

I don’t know how to tell you, but I’ve known groups of people far bigger than 10 with 0-2 cishet

[RedLenai]

To me personally, I don't "celebrate" characters being LGBTQ or even ethnic. I would consider it cool? Yes, but that's it.
A lot of time I see big companies, franchises, media and news make a big fuss about these so called LGBTQ characters and that leads to a lot of controversy as well, but at the end when you actually engage with the media it ends up being... a character that barely appears, a character who is only to be the token rep and nothing more and similar situations that honestly... kind of hard could count as proper representation than LGBTQ content created by LGBTQ people.

To me is a bit of a weird situation, in one hand is good to celebrate it because people identify with them, love them and such. In the other stating that "omg this character is LGBTQ and they can prove they can do X!" kind of indicates that the space wasn't meant for them or that their presence is something very unique, instead of naturalizing the situation and provide a more natural reaction instead of the two extremes: Great disgust or great praise and those two being translated into the public.

Honestly, I would prefer a comic to simply be it's own thing than trying to pay some kind of imaginary fee about including LGBTQ characters, like, don't do it if making them LGBTQ is going to be their sole personality or you won't do shit with them and is just there like decoration lol

[Katzalcoatl]

Since they are fictional characters. I don't really feel represented. But that's just me.

As to wether one should "celebrate" LGBTQ characters in anime? I wouldn't say so.
Like RedLenai said it is kewl to see, but I think the personality of the character is way more important than their sexuality or ethnicity.

Representation isn't really that important to me since it is not my story. That being said I did start making my novels because they didn't exist.
I also got frustrated reading so many korean novels in which I kept shipping two girls because their relationship was more beautiful and well written than the relationship the MC had with the ML.

I do think however that representation (of yourself or whoever you want) is important in your own story since... well.... it's your own story you should be your #1 fan. You should also be allowed to represent whoever you want be it yourself, your ideal self, your ideal partner, etc.

[thepenmonster]

Being a white, cis, hetro, middle-aged man I don't feel that those are my stories to tell as a creator.

But if you're asking if I think it's okay to have people who don't resemble me as a character? Obviously yes.

[BoomerZ]

Most of the time it's not realistic and panders to the audience. Every one else gets to have flaws and personalities while the gay character is "gay". If it's that type of character, I have zero care.

[JoshRaed]

Riverdale should be legally classified as a hate crime.

[darthmongoose]

It's funny how a lot of cishet creators think LGBTQIA+ representation means "Put one character who is gay in your work and make a fuss about them being gay to earn points"... funny and also kinda sad?

Like... there are so many options, and that's how it's not implausible to have a cast or a group of friends who are all some flavour of queer.
Yes, there are people who are cis gay/lesbian, like me, who are comfortable with their assigned gender, but have a strong attraction to people of the same sex/gender...

But there are also bisexuals and pansexuals, who might be just attracted to anyone who's their sort of type, and by the way, if you've ever been attracted to a nonbinary person (like Sam Smith or Lil' Nas X, for example...), you're technically bisexual yourself. Or some of them lean strongly towards one gender, but are open to sometimes being into stuff outside that. This group is so nebulous, it honestly makes people who insist they're 100% straight the anomalies, like... what, you've never looked at a really gorgeous person of the same gender as you or ambiguous gender and thought "wow."? It's a sliding scale, peeps; very few people are actually 100% heterosexual, and people who think they are, it's mostly social conditioning; you're statistically probably at least little bit bi, but scared to acknowledge or express it because of the social backlash of "being gay".

And then there's the trans umbrella. Being trans doesn't always have to be like... Changing from one gender presentation to another and employing hormones and surgery. Trans can include people who just don't quite feel like "man" or "woman" fully describes them. You know who fitted this description perfectly? Celebrated Vampire book writer, Anne Rice (Who never used the word "nonbinary", but... well, just watch the interview). There are lots of "She/they" and "He/they" people in the world who present as their assigned gender on a daily basis, but also... kinda don't 100% feel like that fits them, and they're still recognised as trans nonbinary if they want to be. There's this whole misconception that nonbinary people and nonbinary characters must be perfectly androgynous looking and use exclusively they/them pronouns... but like... nah, most nonbinary people I know, you wouldn't know unless you knew, and they might only ask you to use they/them if they really trust you, so if they think you're kind of... a judgemental asshole who says things like "UGH why's everything got to be GAY nowadays, why can't people be NORMAL?"... they might not have told you?
There are actually a lot of NB characters in anime and manga who are given a gender in translations. In Japanese, it's pretty easy to refer to a person with neutral or even no pronouns, and there are a number of characters who are never referred to as "kare" or "kanojo", but only using neutral terms like "aitsu" or by name (Hange in Attack on Titan, for example, or Piccolo in DBZ). Sadly a lot of translations just drop a "he" or "she" (or language equivalent) and lose this.

Then there's Intersex. Which people incorrectly think just means "having both genitals" but it's way more complex. A lot of people have weird chromosome combos, or some people can think they're just "male" their whole lives and discover they had a womb the whole time when getting surgery for something else, for example.

And finally... the ace umbrella. The classic Asexual is a person who experiences no sexual attraction. But there's this interaction between Asexual and Aromantic. Aromantic (Aro) people don't experience romantic attraction, they're not interested in cuddling and being all "I love you".... but they might not necessarily be asexual. You can be just one of these or both. Romantic (straight, bi. pan or gay) but not interested in sex, or Aromantic and not interested in sex, or Aromantic, but enjoy sex (straight, bi. pan or gay). And some people consider "demisexual" (attraction to people only after building a strong social or romantic bond) to count as a type of Ace.

When you look at all those options.... doesn't being a person who isn't even a little bit outside of the "all my sliders are set to 100% cishet sexual and romantic" feel like kind of an outlier? And never mind that, an entire group of people ALL having all their sliders set that way? Like really? A group of ten people and not one of them maybe likes to have sex, but has never felt an urge to settle down and marry somebody? (Aro) Not one of them has never quite felt comfortable with being called "male"? (Nonbinary), Nobody's ever got drunk at a party and started making out with somebody of the same gender? (bi/pan).

The reason so many zoomers are now LGBTQ+ (in some countries it's gone up from 3-10% to 30% in the last 10-20 years) is that the social backlash for being queer is ebbing away, and it's more acceptable for people to openly admit "You know... I wouldn't mind kissing another bloke", or "I've never really felt comfortable calling myself a woman, I kinda think I'm just a person?" or "I'm just... not that into sex, honestly". A lot of people are LGBTQIA+ and stay in the closet their whole lives because of fear of what society or their family will say, so it's not surprising that in comics, creators want to depict a world where like.. everyone can just openly express themselves. But also... once you learn just how broad LGBTQ+ can be... it starts to just feel weird to imagine a group of people who are all cishet, because once you're in friend groups of countries or industries where it's accepted, you'll almost never find yourself studying or working in a room full of them. Media where the entire cast is meant to be cis and straight starts to feel unreal and you start to wonder "okay, so who's in the closet?" and it raises questions about the society those characters are living in. If Konoha is such a nice place to live and worth defending...why does nobody there feel comfortable being "out" about their sexuality or gender? Feels kinda scary and oppressive...

(Also sorry but also congratulations, anyone who realised they're actually LGBTQ+ themselves reading this post.)

[Lensing]

That was really interesting to read.

I don´t have an opinion about the question if it´s important to celebrate LGBTQ characters but it´s interesting
for me to read about it

[NickRowler]

I am also adding to this…

When cis str8 people complain that lgbtq characters are just one note, they don’t realize is the reason why they are that way is because when they are given more development, they are accused of being “too gay” or pandering by cis str8 people. Or the character gets censored or limited to 2 secs, which happens in Disney movies.

I read some story about a gay man which was written by someone who was straight. And while the character had a personality, his character was very limited to how openly gay he could be. He could say he was gay and talk about having a boyfriend but he never kissed his boyfriend or cuddled with him or even showing the two men sitting in bed before falling asleep. It just felt like something was missing because the straight characters were allowed moments like this.

Maybe to someone who isn’t queer, they might see the character as being “too gay” or maybe they think it’s good because “they aren’t solely defined by being gay”. But to some queer people, it just feels too limited to be good representation.

I remember watching the film Bros (good film but has it’s flaws), there was a very meta monologue about that topic. Sort of questioning the industry that we need better representation than dead cowboys.

[darthmongoose]

Yeah, this is why it's a frustrating topic... Because cishet creators who go "RRGH! Why do I gotta put a gay person in my work just for the sake of it, why can't my characters just be characters!?" are almost there, they're so tantalisingly close to an epiphany...

Because most LGBTQIA+ people actually don't want characters whose entire personality and characterisation is "OH BOY, I SURE AM GAY!" and a lot of us are just so tired of every story about queer characters being a coming out story where the entire conflict is based around them being gay or trans.

If they could just realise... that literally all you need to do... is to just throw in a character who is in all respects just an ordinary person, but who maybe feels attracted to people without gender presentation being a big issue, or isn't too into sex, or who maybe is like "hey, 'sup, my pronouns are they/them" and the other characters just refer to that character as "them" and address them as "Mx" rather than Mr or Ms.... that's literally all they need to do to add representation here. It's that easy to make your comic inclusive. There's no need for deep research, because NB people can present like anything at all, and even most gay people live really normal lives. Some bisexuals and pansexuals never even date or have sex with anyone of the same gender, they just like people to know they are bi/pan so they can find solidarity, so it's actually really normal for LGBTQ+ characters to... just be ordinary people. It doesn't need to be scary or hard work.

Because most of us ALSO hate stuff like Disney boasting about how they put a gay character in Beauty and the Beast and it's the horrible little simp guy and all he does is...dance with a man? That's....Disney, that's not worth boasting about, okay? Just be cool about it.

[DiegoPalacios]

if you've ever been attracted to a nonbinary person (like Sam Smith or Lil' Nas X, for example...), you're technically bisexual yourself.

Some non-binary people present themselves as their assigned gender, so i would argue it doesn't count if the person attracted to them doesn't know about the person's gender identity.

Also, some transgender people nailed it with their transition and may look almost indistinguishable from a cisgender person of the opposite sex of a person, so a straight person may feel attracted until they find out about the truth or notice an unexpected bulge or a lack of it.

I even pondered if i might be bisexual, but while i am comfortable acknowledging when another dude looks good, when i thought about dicks the first thing that came to my mind was "eeeeew".

I don't think acknowledging beauty is the same as feeling sexually or romantically attracted......

Of course, for some folks it may be the case and they realize they might be bi/pan, but it's not always the case.

Trans can include people who just don't quite feel like "man" or "woman" fully describes them. You know who fitted this description perfectly? Celebrated Vampire book writer, Anne Rice (Who never used the word "nonbinary", but... well, just watch the interview).

I think it's important to make a distinction between gender roles and gender self perception. For example, some particularly oppressive countries or social circles make being a woman an awful experience, so of course many women would wish they were men to have an easier life. Also, having interests that defy gender roles of society doesn't make people less of a man or a woman.

My point is that while these details may help people figure things out about oneself, is better to not rush and to take time to ponder and reflect on them. Self discovery is not a thing that happens in a single day. Sadly some people have jumped at the wrong conclusions and regretted their surgeries and transition.

And for everyone that is in the process of discovering themselves, my best wishes for all of you. Take your time and no matter the outcome, you are a precious person and deserve to be happy.

[NickRowler]

People don’t transition to escape particularly oppression. Transpeople face huge amounts of discrimination. People usually transition for themselves, not because society forced them to. I know in the past there was a pressure to transition some gay and lesbian people but that was under the pressure to appear as straight couple. At least in the US, you aren’t really allowed to force transition anymore.

Trans representation in media has nothing to do with whether cispeople find trans people attractive or not. You can still be supportive of a group of people even if you don’t want to date them. Trans rep isn’t really designed to force on lookers to transition, it’s more that trans people exist thus they should exist in media.