Do you need author's permission?

kyupol 2023-01-12 12:51:21 UTC #1

Do you need author's permission to do a webtoon adaptation of their novel or short story?

I understand that I have to give credit to the original author. But do I need to get written permission from the author or is it ok as long as I give credit?

Or is it similar to when anybody does a song cover and upload it to YouTube? I doubt all these fans wrote the original artist to ask permission to do a cover of their song. Or am I wrong in my understanding?

Kelheor 2023-01-12 12:55:03 UTC #2

You most definitely want to get their permission otherwise you are trying to make money off their intellectual property.
Some info on song covers, for example

Lensing 2023-01-12 13:09:19 UTC #3

The link that @Kelheor uploaded explains it pretty good already.

Cover songs are a complicated subject which is not easily explained in a few sentences,
I work in publication, production and I ran a music label some years ago.
It happened in the past that songwriters were not ok with the interpretation and the
musicians who did the cover were not allowed to publish the song but I don´t want
to get too deep into that complicated subject

When you use someone else´s work you have to ask them for permission

HGohwell 2023-01-12 13:24:04 UTC #4

Yes. If you want to adapt something of course young need permission unless you're going to call it a fanwork. Fans on youtube are quite clearly doing fanwork and (in theory if the rules are followed) are never monetised. These can also be claimed by the song's owner/company with copyright, meaning they make money off of it.

Legalities aside, it's a dick move not to and will make you look bad in the eyes of the community which can lead to a bad reputation, lower engagement and people being unwilling to work with you. This goes double if you intent to monetise rather than just calling a fanwork. Webcomics and webnovels are a small community, most people being one or two man set ups barely making a living, not like song covers who're making sometimes a lot of money and with a lot of middle men ect to the point where knowing who to contact can be intimidating and confusing. With webcomics and novels, simply reaching out to the original artist/author isn't hard so not taking time to do so would make you look bad. And that's even without something like the original creator finding out, not being happy and causing you further troubles.

Ordinaryaverageguy 2023-01-14 08:01:55 UTC #5

You'd really feel badly if your work took off or went viral & you'd have to try to get the permissions after the fact or have your work deleted & maybe even letters from lawyers.

TheLemmaLlama 2023-01-16 23:44:31 UTC #6

Technically fanworks are also illegal, so yeah. It's just a huge mess all around with a whole bunch of gray areas. If it helps, if you're looking to adapt from a small creator, they probably won't be upset in any way if you contact them, and will probably feel flattered even if they ultimately decide they don't want you to do it for whatever reason :]

LunarScyphozoa 2023-01-17 00:20:34 UTC #7

You absolutely do need permission, no doubt about it.

kitkatxk 2023-01-17 00:28:37 UTC #8

So what was posted is already really good. But I can actually elaborate with a real world example of a friend of mine who actually ended up being served with a cease and desist letter that if she didn't stop she would be taken to court over.

So my friend decided to translate a novel from a language she knew quite well to her native language and she thought it would be okay to do. She did reach out to the author after she had already started saying what a big fan she was and can she translate her work because she respected and loved the novels so much. The author never got back to her, she assumed that it meant all was well because other people do it all the time. So she continued doing it. Well she didn't expect her work and effort to blow up. But it did, and she had over 500,000 reads on the story in like little over a month. Problem is, most comments said god job author. Loving it keep this up. And stuff along those lines.

Now she put a disclaimer on the front about section of the novel and on the very frist intro chapter saying it was just a translation and to follow the author. However she called me really stressed later on saying she had recieved a email from the author through the authors legal team and they were very unhappy because she had been making monetary gain off of work that was not hers. People sent her gifts and there was ad revenue turned on. People had thought she was the actual author and the Author was unhappy someone had stolen their work. My friend sent an apology letter stating that she had explained making sure that there was credit. That she had asked for permission and to pretty please if it was okay with them could she be allowed to keep the work up because she had worked so hard translating it. The author's lawyers got back to her saying that it was not acceptable as people were gifting her as the author and no matter the disclaimers she had used it wasn't her property, even if she had just wanted to share it with the fans. They said if she kept it up then they would be forced to take legal action. My friend thought they were just trying to scare her and she was actually pretty scared. But since they hadn't given her a timeline she thought she would just put up the last chapter she had already translated along with a sorry this is the final chapter I will be doing please support the author. She left it for a week thinking that would be enough time for people to read and see what was going on. But then almost nine days later she tried logging into her account and found out she couldn't. Upon writing the site at their customer support, she found out her account had been shadowbanned for plagerism. The author had reported her. She was frantic, and after a week of sorting things out she was able to get her account back on the condition that she delete the whole book immediately, all copies of it from anywhere she had it. So she did she deleted everything. Even her private copy just to be safe. All her work months and months gone. She almost lost her account with her own work on it. Because of that one book. And now she doesn't translate anything anymore. She was really lucky they hadn't come after her for the money she did make off the books, because in the end she had made a couple hundred bucks for her hard work of translating it. I think they reason they didn't actually sue her was because it would have been hard to prove which gifts were from people who thought she was the author and some people who knew it was translated and were thanking her for her effort. Since not everyone leaving gifts writes a message with it.

Moral of the story is. If it isn't yours, ALWAYS ask for permission and never do anything without getting it first.

TheLemmaLlama 2023-01-17 01:31:35 UTC #9

Tbh if I really wanted to translate/adapt/etc something^ and the author doesn't respond to requests for permission, I'd do it anyway under anonymous accounts, include an explicit disclaimer from the very start that I'm not the original creator and it's just a fan translation, and keep ad revenue off. I'm honestly not sure how your friend thought to ask permission, but not give explicit attribution and avoid monetization.

I've gone on about this before, but I kind of hate how IP laws stifle the flow of culture. I understand why creators make use of it though, so I try to hate the game, not the players. My moral of the story is if it isn't yours, avoid gaining money or reputation from it at all costs so the original creator has no actual reason to go after you (and stay anonymous in case they're a jerk and decide to do so anyway)

^ unlikely, since my own stories are my first priority - so if you see an anonymous fan adaption/translation with dubious permissions, it's probably not me; plz don't hurt me

thecrystalrook 2023-01-17 02:06:39 UTC #10

It depends on the terms of the copyright license the author chose, but generally yes you should get permission.

Tbh if I really wanted to translate/adapt/etc something^ and the author doesn't respond to requests for permission, I'd do it anyway under anonymous accounts, include an explicit disclaimer from the very start that I'm not the original creator and it's just a fan translation, and keep ad revenue off.

This is going to work for you until it doesn't. I mean you literally just admitted that you broke copyright law by doing so right off the bat. There is a very good chance they didn't respond to you because they don't want to grant permission, and the easiest way to avoid ambiguity is to not answer. They are entirely in their right to shut you down.

My moral of the story is if it isn't yours, avoid gaining money or reputation from it at all costs so the original creator has no actual reason

This won't protect you. By using their property, you gave them reason enough.

(and stay anonymous in case they're a jerk and decide to do so anyway)

This also isn't going to protect you. Unless you're hiding behind Tor, it's not hard to identify you.
And they're not a jerk, they're protecting their property.

The real moral here is don't try to play lawyer. Unless you're ACTUALLY an IP lawyer, you are not capable of navigating this. Any decision about whether or not you're in the right or wrong for using someone's property is up to a judge in court, not yourself. Always get permission.

TheLemmaLlama 2023-01-17 02:34:44 UTC #11

I ... don't see how? No answer is like the most ambiguous answer you can get; maybe they were busy and/or didn't see your message. A straightforward 'no' is the obvious way to avoid ambiguity, no matter how I look at it

Well yeah, Tor exists Though I will concede I don't know too much about the pragmatic aspects of how easy it really is to avoid landing into trouble. I suspect you're more talking about the moral aspects though:

Imo legality =/= morality, but we clearly disagree on what the morality is here (or even if property rights should apply to IP to begin with) even if you made no mention of the law. You haven't made any arguments I haven't heard before, and I suspect you feel the same way about me. If we discuss this further, we should probably take it into a new thread

edit:

Ahh gotcha, then I agree there's nothing to discuss :]

thecrystalrook 2023-01-17 02:39:28 UTC #12

I ... don't see how? No answer is like the most ambiguous answer you can get

It's not. You don't have an answer, and thus legally cannot move forward. You didn't receive permission, and that's all the law is going to care about at the end of the day.

Imo legality =/= morality, but we clearly disagree on what the morality is here

I'm not speaking to the morality here, I'm suggesting what one should do to not get in trouble. Are you thinking about doing something without someone's permission? Simple answer: don't.

If we discuss this further, we should probably take it into a new thread

There isn't anything to discuss. You're not a lawyer.

LunarScyphozoa 2023-01-17 03:31:03 UTC #13

To be fair, you aren’t a lawyer either..

thecrystalrook 2023-01-17 03:48:41 UTC #14

No one here is. As I said, no one here is qualified to navigate IP law (unless someone in the thread actually is a lawyer). But it doesn't take a law degree to know you can't get in trouble if you don't put yourself there in the first place. That's why my advice is summarized into one word if you don't have permission: don't.

Kaisei 2023-02-01 08:31:49 UTC #15

Yes, you absolutely need an agreement with the copyright holder before adapting or translating their work. The only exception would be if you adapted it for your own personal entertainment and did not share it. Once you share your adaptation with others or post it online, you leave yourself open to legal action, even if you aren't making money.

Note: Even if the author is dead, there may be an entity still holding the copyright (the estate, the publisher, or whoever created the translation/edition you are working off of if it is not the original).

Disclaimers are not legally binding, and in this case, they simply amount to admitting to IP theft.

The outcome of copyright disputes is often determined by who has the biggest and baddest lawyers. Also, if the creator has already granted a company the rights to a webtoon adaptation, then that company may very well assist them in pursuing legal action against any rival adaptations.

system 2023-03-03 08:31:56 UTC #16

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