Do you need to like a creator or can you enjoy their work regardless?

[zigmenthotep]

I don't need to like a creator, I really know almost nothing about most of the creators of work I follow.
However, I will stop viewing works if I find out the creator has conflicting views on issues that are important to me. Basically, as much as you can say that a work can exist separate of it's creator, you cannot support a work without indirectly supporting its creator. So even if I like something, I'll give it up if I don't feel comfortable supporting the creator.

[UrMom]

I could never go 100% on the "death of the author" thing. My work feels too much like a part of me and I can't help but feel the same about other artists and their work. Everything is a self-portrait. I can't just like a creation or a creator without also feeling good about the other.

Well, it all depends on the person, being anti-social I doesn't like being noticed I can easily ignore the existence of other people until the come to me. You're probably much more social, having a harder time not acknowledging other people. Of course everyone person a little of themselves and their interest in their work, and there are some works I can't look at without feeling... weird. -coughbleedmancough- But yeah, for me I just seen them as literally two separate entities for the most part, the author just makes the thing and as long as they do it well enough I don't care about them. (geez that makes me sound like a heartless douche)

@Rochrok Uurg, I hate that shit! There's someone on here who is super dictative to their fans, not allowing them to discuss the story unless it follows their vision, fans can't have fun with that dumb crack shipping stuff or harmless talk about fake alternate paths, they can't dislike certain characters, the author makes the fanbase out to be abusers. I still check out the comic every so often, but I'd rather not give that person my support.

[scythe]

They would have to be seriously in my face and say or do something unforgivable for me to not be able to separate the art from the artist. Being a bit of a contrarian myself, I tend to vehemently disagree with pretty much all of my favourite writers, directors, actors and artists on many political and social issues, so I'd be in a bit of a pickle if I were required to personally like someone to enjoy their work.

[OliviaMerteli]

I separate pretty easily a creator from his creation so it's not a problem. Unless a creator have extremist opinions (about whatever subject, it's the "I'm right, you're wrong"/the world is black or white attitude that I can't stand) and use their work to shove it down my throat.

[Rhombik]

I find it really hard to separate them. I wish actually it didn't have such an impact. I find something out about somebody and I can literally feel myself stop liking their work. How can I know if something's actually good or not if my personal opinion has such a strong hold?

[shazzbaa]

I'm also in camp "it depends."

When someone writes a character who's kind of an ass, but you can appreciate that character as an accurate depiction of an jerk -- but then the creator reveals themselves to share a lot of that character's views, and to be kind of a jerk themselves, that can break trust in a story. Suddenly I don't know if this character will be examined fairly, or if all the bad things he's doing are just things the creator wants to do. The creator's worldview matters in a story, seeps into everything.

But then, I agree very much with punkarsenic that sometimes there is a piece of media that reflects its creator's worst flaws, and yet something in that piece of media still resonates with you and you love it anyway. One of my favourite books is The Fountainhead, even though I know Ayn Rand is, well, Ayn Rand. The Fountainhead itself has a lot of very troubling things in it. But it also put to words so many of my own experiences as an artist in a way that impacts me to this day; it doesn't matter what its creator was like. Nothing she could do would take away what it meant to me to read the scenes that stayed with me.

How can I know if something's actually good or not if my personal opinion has such a strong hold?

Does it really matter?

"Good" is already so subjective. Stories depend a lot on the perspective you bring to them -- whether they resonate with you or not. A story can be successful or unsuccessful, sure, if it's well-paced or poorly told -- but does it really matter whether it's "good" outside of your personal experience? What's the point of trying to isolate a story from the things that colour the way it would impact you?

There's something bitter in broccoli that some folks can taste, and others physically can't. So some people hate broccoli, and some people enjoy it, and it's all because of the subjective experience of their tongues. So who's right? Is the broccoli "good" and the folks with the bitter genes are just letting their own personal tastes colour the experience? Or is the broccoli "bad" and the folks without the bitter genes can't detect it, letting their own personal tastes colour the experience? Does it matter?

Ultimately, I think "good" vs "bad" is often sort of meaningless. "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" seems more honest for everyone; everyone's personal experience will colour how they see something.

[joe_galindez]

Ultimately, I think "good" vs "bad" is often sort of meaningless. "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" seems more honest for everyone; everyone's personal experience will colour how they see something.

I dunno. I can hate something and still see that it was very well-made. r/ATBGE is full of such things.

[shazzbaa]

I dunno. I can hate something and still see that it was very well-made.

Oh, for sure! That's kinda what I mean by the "successful/unsuccessful" comment -- I've definitely encountered stuff where I'm like "this is well-done, but not my thing" or "this is well-done, but has a horrible message" or "I love this and it explores some really neat things, but boy howdy is it poorly written."

But I don't think EVERYTHING falls so neatly into categories we can identify, and I still tend to shy away from "good" and "bad" as descriptors in mixed company. We all have biases, and what for one person is a bad movie with charm, for another is a good movie with some bits that weren't well-executed. There will be things that seem "good" to one person and "bad" to someone else, and that's really not a debate worth having, imo. A movie can be shot well, does that make it "good?" Maybe it's easier and fairer to just say it was shot well.

A story can be a well-told story with enormous blindspots that fails to really examine its subjects and ends up saying a lot of troubling things, and I think the argument over whether that's a Bad story that was told well or a Good story with problematic elements isn't really useful, especially when "well-told, but troubling message" works and doesn't subtly insult anyone's taste or objectivity. Do you need to be able to appreciate the "Good"ness of a well-told story if its "Bad" elements are a huge turnoff? Some folks do, and some folks don't, and I don't think one approach is more valuable or fair than the other.

[Benetnasch]

It's complicated. There's quite a few people I did not realize were living trash fires until much later, otherwise I might have raised a skeptical brow. But I try to keep things superficial and focus more on their work.

[NickRowler]

I think it depends on how there personal views cross over into their work.

I think Notch is immature and has shitty views however I don't really want to boycott Minecraft. I feel his views don't really effect how Minecraft runs and the majority of players would not even be aware of them.

I feel with actors it gets a little more difficult for me. Like Bill Cosby. In his films and shows he comes off as wholesome and corky even though off screen he is well...gross and I heard a moody and grumpy individual. And a lot of the "charm" just comes off now as fake. People feel uncomfortable looking back at his past stuff because of the charges against him.

[joe_galindez]

I heard that Notched put someone down by comparing their earnings, but I'm not aware of anything else. Total dick move in any case.

[lunaartemisasama]

I really don't care about the author if I like their job, but most of the time its kind of correlative.
On the other hand if I like the author I might check out some of their other works.

[joannekwan]

I can like a work if

A. the creator's cool, I like both them and their work, two thumbs up, double happiness points, yaaay. This is often the case with comics here on Tap, since creators are fairly accessible here.

B. the works cool, I know little to nothing about the creator and their personality/views etc. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. This is the case with 90% of the stuff I like I suppose.

C. Now if the creator has come out to be problematic, then I suppose it depends on how their "problematicness" affects me personally. Like if they're shitty towards their fans and I am one or have potential to become one, then that will sour my view of their work. Or in recent sexual assault allegations, I might cringe at the people themselves, but all the shows, movies and such they are responsible for that I like I still like at the same level.

[IdiotWithPencil]

I am a firm advocate of the author is dead philosophy, but I do have a breaking point and that's when the author is literally human trash, like this person should burn in a pit of fire somewhere far away from all human civilisation trash

[joe_galindez]

There was this one sci-fi comic that read like a good Heinlein novel up until it was revealed that the eccentric mentor was on the run for blowing up a major holy city. To my horror, the author chose to make this character a Karma Houdini and had him get away with the whole thing. I'm like, "C'mon man, at least let him find redemption in death." But no, he gets to ride off into the sunset and have more wacky adventures. It had turned into a bad Heinlein novel.

[Rhombik]

"Good" is already so subjective.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I mean how do I know what I actually find bad and what I don't like because I think I shouldn't.

It's like with people. We have a psychological tendency to find people we know and like more attractive. Sometimes this is good. Sometimes it isn't. I can't divorce my experience of something from everything going on around it but it shouldn't have the biggest effect on me either.

[joe_galindez]

If we're talking morally, there are ways to determine if something is good through reason.

If we're talking in terms of production values, there's a certain amount of due diligence I'd expect of a work, for it to be considered high-quality.

[skicoak]

I really hope that most people can look past the creator's personality and just evaluate the art...

I mean seriously, I would like to one day have WAY more readers than I do friends.

[Rhombik]

If we're talking morally, there are ways to determine if something is good through reason.

Oh my goodness. If we keep going, I can use my philosophy degree for the first time in years.

If we're talking in terms of production values, there's a certain amount of due diligence I'd expect of a work, for it to be considered high-quality.

I agree. I think there's a minimum amount of time spent before something can be good.

[joe_galindez]

Philosophy is one of those things that don't start to sink in until ten years after you graduate. Gotta love it now.