Do you wish Tapastic had different sections for lesser comics?

nessiefynn 2016-09-10 14:04:46 UTC #14

I can get behind a more prominent fresh section, but I don't see how an under 20/100/whatever subs section would really be that useful. Why would readers want to specifically seek out comics with few subscribers? While fewer subscriber doesn't necessarily translate to lower quality, that's what a lot of people would assume, and so many people would ignore a low-sub section entirely.

genjiOtori 2016-09-10 14:08:14 UTC #15

Well it's more like a bookstore than you think. But instead of purchasing money you purchase attention - attention used for ad that can be exchanged by money. And Tapastic is a business. The front page should showcase what it stands for, what audience it wants to reach. And if they put some newly created comics on the frontpage they kinda loose that kind of sparkle (and also they loose a bit of control what is on the front page, more than with trendy and popular)

Also I don't really understand why you want a NEW section. We have fresh where everyone who updates a new episode is shown. If you click on "comics" at the top or the goat way down the front page you'll get there. You even can filter by genre to get comics more to your liking. And if your art and story is captivation you won't stay under 20 subs very long.

ReroOnyx 2016-09-10 14:15:18 UTC #16

20 under may be too little, but I wanted to get a number that at least seemed feasible for starters. And also the possibility of having a limit might help. Plus I honestly wanted to get a number that was less than my own subs so I didn't sound desperate.

Perhaps one should take out the "Less than" part and just have a "20-50 sub" section. That number might need to be dwindled to 30 or 40 at tops to be fair. So here it's like, you still need to work hard to get the subs you need but if you manage to keep up the good work and get to that number.

And while I wouldn't want too many sections just to build off on that you might have "50-100 sub section" and then "100-500 sub section" and then 500-1,000+ subsection" and so on. Essentially each time you manage to hit a certain mark, you are rewarded for your efforts.

But once you do, here's a little reward for working so hard and and it's up to you to keep working hard and keep building those subs up. Either way you're going to have to keep updating and keep on moving if you want people to check out your comic.

shazzbaa 2016-09-10 14:25:09 UTC #17

Nah, I don't think it would be like that. But these are my two main thoughts:

It doesn't benefit Tapastic to make a section for those comics. They can have that section, but why? When they have a section dedicated to popular and trending comics, it's not to promote those comics -- it's so that people who come to Tapastic see the best that Tapastic has to offer. I wouldn't say it's some big massive undertaking to add a sub-20 (or 20-50) section, just that there's no compelling reason to do so.
It likely won't benefit sub-20 (or 20-50, or sub-100) comics because most readers won't look at that section. I'm not saying a sub-20/20-50 section will drive readers away, just that it will be ignored. So basically, the one reason for creating that underdog section -- helping underdog comics get exposure -- probably wouldn't help much in practice, meaning there's even less of a reason for Tapastic to implement it.

I don't think there are drawbacks, per se, just that it's a bit redundant with "Fresh," so there's not really a big reason to implement it. I can understand preferring it, and sure, it wouldn't hurt anything, but I don't think it would add a lot to the site to have a distinct section from Fresh that's just brand new comics.
(tho I guess it could maybe take away attention from Fresh -- most people probably aren't gonna check BOTH new AND fresh, since they're a little redundant -- and that would mean even fewer eyes on comics that are low in subs but not brand new)

sarrowsmith10 2016-09-10 14:30:37 UTC #18

I'm pretty sure this is the problem that any art hosting site has. Deviant art, smackjeeves, ect. I don't think there is a solution that will make everyone happy. Tapastic.com has a balance to make: generate revenue and honor the community of creators that supports them.

One thing that I think a few people have touched on that is an ongoing problem is the lack of a comprehensive search feature. Perhaps improving search functions to include limits on subs or newness or tags or a number of things perhaps would be a good compromise?

ReroOnyx 2016-09-10 14:37:26 UTC #19

Fresh for me is the equivalent of "Just Updated" something that appears in a lot of comic hosting site. The difference between it and "New" is that "New" basically gives new comics a little bit of the spotlight. Here's a little attention for just starting out. But then like everyone else if you want to keep that attention you have to keep posting and get into that "Fresh" section.

Considering how quickly comics come in, it might even have to be designed differently. A "New" section might be 1 page, maybe 2 pages and every 2-3 days (if that long) it rotates the upcoming comics.

So as an example let's say I create a new comic. This comic would go to the "New" section as well as the "Fresh" section. For a day or so, that comic will always be on the "New" section. After a set time, a new rotation is given, my comic is taken off "New" and is replaced with the next batch. If I want to get more attention, I better work hard and get it on that Fresh.

Kayke 2016-09-10 14:50:57 UTC #20

I mean we have all of those "Under 100" "Under 50" "Under whatever" topics here on the forum and it doesn't seem like people check those other than to just promo their own comics. I don't know how many people who are solely readers on the main site would be interesting in sifting through such a list. I know when I'm in reader mode, I don't really look at the "Fresh" section to find new comics, I either check the top comics in the genre I feel like reading or I look through a friend's reading list to see if they're reading anything good that I haven't seen yet.

alaingrey 2016-09-10 14:57:49 UTC #21

I think the title says it all. Why does anyone want to look through "lesser" comics? They don't. If you're serious about your comic and getting a bigger audience, the method is to analyze what's holding your comic back, and fix that. Does your art suffer? Learn to draw. Is the writing bad? Consider finding a writer to collaborate with. Think of what Ayn Rand would say about the desire for the site to hold your hand. "The creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not to beat others." Subscriptions is just a number. What's important is making the best comic you can, and if there aren't people reading, it's just time to evaluate what you're doing wrong.

NickRowler 2016-09-10 15:06:45 UTC #22

As someone with very little subs I'm going to say... I don't want a "[#] and under" section. Why? Because I doubt most people would use it.

What would be better is a Fresh section on the front page and maybe a Random section, which picks like five random comics from the site and if you refresh the page, it changes.

JessJackdaw 2016-09-10 15:22:56 UTC #23

Well some stellar points have already been made, but I'll throw my two cents in. Personally, I'd rather have a redesign of the Fresh section rather than create an all new section of comics with the same system. I think the issue with most comic hosting sites is that most of the time if you're exploring new comics, you're judging by the name and icon alone and that's not a very effective way to find comics at all.

If there was any way Tapastic could format the sections so that readers could see a snippet of a comic preview of any sort, I think that could help immensely. I've seen good comics struggle because their icon really doesn't stand out, and I struggle browsing Tapastic trying to find a good comic. D: Like maybe instead of the title and icon being the main focus have them small underneath a cropped section of the recent comic page and (like how the mobile site operates already with the trending and popular catagory) have a grey tab people can click on to reveal the whole page. If people like what they see, they can go to the comic page and start from the beginning or subscribe.

Not sure how hard this would be to implement but something like this already exists on the mobile site (not the app). I find so many good comics this way, I'd love to see it brought to the fresh section. : >

Like this:

shazzbaa 2016-09-10 15:31:35 UTC #24

They actually do this in the Comics Feed section! But it would be cool to add, maybe the ability to switch between "view as icons/view as feed" for browsing the other sections of the site?

ReroOnyx 2016-09-10 15:48:23 UTC #25

Subscriptions might be a number but its an enticing number that offers attention. Subs are motivators both for the artist and for the reader.

If a reader sees a comic with 500 subs, their mind will immediately wonder what this comic is and how it has become so popular? How did this comic reach such levels of popularity? It must be quite a read. When people say "Subs" are just a number, I find this to be wholesomely inaccurate. Subs measure a comic's popularity, it's impact and its motivation to both artists and readers. It's probably the most prominent point of motivation for an artist and reader itself.

I think any good comic artist should be influenced to keep working hard for something they like. But I also feel strongly that any artist and comic, no matter how good or bad deserves to have a little push or recognition at the start. That start is already a motivator for them, it's a motivator to obtain potentially new readers.

Having a "New" section in the end is a small push in the right direction. It's like the comic hosting site version of a "Kickstarter" But instead of offering money, "New" basically offers direction attention. A little boost of motivation and potential readership. After a day or so, as I've already pointed out in my other post, once you've gotten that push it's up to you to continue all the way.

I can make many different comparisons. Do you put a kid on a bike and just say "good luck buddy, don't crash into a tree."

Or do you give that child a helpful push and motivate them to keep working harder?

I don't see why this shouldn't be different at all. I don't see how Tapastic can't give...frankly all its new artists that little push of motivation and inspiration that the artists must ultimately build up completely themselves by the end. If a "New" comic only appears in Fresh, there's no way of knowing when or if anyone is going to check out that comic since everything is being updated constantly.

There are times when I've updated and probably not even 20 minutes later, it's no longer on the front page of Fresh and most people focus on the front page. Which is why I like the idea of "Rotation" where each time a new comic is created, it will appear in a "New" section for maybe 24 hours and then get replaced by the net batch of "New" comics.

Essentially what you have in the end is a way of supporting new artists and giving them a little push. Are we honestly going to say that new artists don't deserve a little push of motivation and that they should just sweat it through at the immediate start and hope they're good enough already?

JessJackdaw 2016-09-10 15:55:24 UTC #26

Ahh yep! That's what I meant! I'd love to see feeds for every section. I really like the format. : > (I also rarely use the Desktop version, so I forgot it had a feed too. XD) Although that much curation might kill Tapastic's bandwidth when I think about it.

joannekwan 2016-09-10 15:56:34 UTC #27

I think a drawback of a "New" or "Under x amount of subs" is having those sections just cluttered with series that never get off the ground. Say a creator makes a series, has one or two episodes, then never updates again and does not delete the series. Then they'll be stuck in the "Under x subs" forever with their 4 subs. At least in the "Fresh" section, those comics actually updated.

ReroOnyx 2016-09-10 16:12:36 UTC #28

Well that's just it, much like Fresh, a "Certain Sub Section" would also be constantly updating.with new comics. If someone has 4 subs (and I don't think it has to be that low a number but arguments sake) it might appear in that section at first but if will in the end be replaced by the next comic.

The idea of having something like 50 Subs or 100 Subs to me is kind of like a reward for doing so well. Any comic to me that reaches 50+ subs has done a great job, much more if one reaches 100 Subs. I mean 100 subs is the big triple, that's when you've finally reached triple digits. The idea of a 100 Sub Section if we do that is like a reward for all the hard work and perseverance an Artist has done.

And in the same way of "New" it might not be that everyone who reaches 100 Subs gets to be on here constantly. It might be that those who reach 100 subs will, for about 3 days get put on this section. This reward section for those who have worked so hard and then it's back to Fresh and working hard again.

I want artists to feel motivated and rewarded, both at the start and when they make huge improvements and advances in their comic career.

mappypaint 2016-09-10 16:19:57 UTC #30

I'm one of those people who says it's just a number. If tapastic have a choice to hide that subs number i'll hide it. At the time I started uploading my comics online it was a motivator for me. But as time passed I realized that subs is just a number. If it's my only motivator I should've stopped after a few pages. I've seen creators who got lots of subs, who got popular quick, etc ... but they still lost motivation and now rarely updates their comics.

Kayke 2016-09-10 16:22:05 UTC #31

I think the harsh reality is you kind of have to earn that "push" or recognition, it's not something that's owed to a creator. Comic hosting websites (not just Tapastic) are providing artists with the service of hosting our comics on a centralized hub where there are more readers. In turn they make money through ads. It's like how shows get to be on TV but the networks make money through commercials... and the shows where more people watch make more money through commercials so they get the prime time spots on the channel. Not to say those shows are always the best shows, but they're the ones the most people want to watch.

Every creator who is popular now was at some point a beginner with no followers and through working hard they got to where they are now. Sometimes that can take years and years to accomplish. I don't think there's a quick fix to gaining followers.

I also think what's being discussed here can get pretty tricky. If this section is to be controlled by an algorithm, there's no promise of how much time the people will be up in the section. If there's a day where 50 people reach whatever qualifications required, then they'll be pushed out pretty quickly. If you're saying that each person gets a set amount of time, that sounds like it has to be curated in which case not everyone would be able to have that privilege. So basically it's going to be the problem people seem to have with Fresh (that they get pushed out too quickly) or the problem people seem to have with Staff Picks (that it's curated)

VermillionWorks 2016-09-10 16:34:26 UTC #32

I think this would be a REALLY good addition. I don't think there is a simple solution to get more underdog comics noticed, but there are so many Tap comics now that it would just make sense to at least let people browse for what they want on their own terms with a proper search engine system.

ReroOnyx 2016-09-10 16:37:46 UTC #33

I can't necessarily disagree because, if I only cared about subs I wouldn't have updated so many pages. But I also feel that if it wasn't for my own motivation plus the overall support from my "fans" I would feel far less eager. Having a revenue and knowing each day your comic is making a few extra cents is also kind of a pleasant motivator as well.

Which is kind of one of the primary reasons I'm on Tapastic. It's the only place I can do something I love and get rewarded in some way by doing it. I've worked on comics in the past and in the same way I loved working on them and even if I wasn't making much on them in terms of Sub, my love for drawing motivated me. But it did get to the point where after working on so many pages and barely getting any recognition, even criticism, I kind of just tuned out.

I'm sure that's the same for a lot of people. They're willing to work had despite low views or subs at first but they will get to the point that if they can't earn something, they will stop. And that's what makes subs so important, that is a grand motivator for artist to keep working. Of course its up to the artist to work hard to keep those Subs coming.

Plus, hosting a comic site or hosting something on anything has two aspects I believe.

1.) You enjoy what you do and want to keep doing it. Reading, writing, drawing, etc. So a site like this allows you to post those things you love.

2.) You want to get support from others and hope they too enjoy your work so it can give you pride and motivation. People love positive attention, and the more you get, the happier you are.

Whenever I decide to update on something like DeviantArt, I do so for those same reasons. I love drawing and want to show my finished product. At the same time I admit I also want to have some kind of recognition. If I don't get that recognition in some way, I'm unfortunately much less motivated because of that lack of support.

Thankfully unlike DA, Tapastic is a lot more supportive I think.

Kura 2016-09-10 22:42:12 UTC #34

Two of those "Popular and Trending" are governed by algorithms. The comics are there because the numbers say they are there, not because the staff put them there. A lot of the comics there were actually NEVER featured by staff via the banner or the staff picks. So saying that tapastic supported them when they got there themselves with the numbers they built and grew on their own is a little bit insulting. While trending is not really to be considered popular and is so random that I've seen / read comics that have only around 15 subscribers or less in there. Even comics that haven't updated in over a year can end up in there. It all depends on if someone is reading it at the moment.

For the banner and staff picks, that's more in line with tapastic riding on the back of a comic that is currently doing well or growing very quickly, using that comic's success to help grow the tapastic site and the hits gathered by the site, not grow the individual comic (though that does happen as well it's just not the main/only intent).

It's clear that tapastic prefers a certain criteria in both statistic and number growth and even art when it comes to promoting comics that will bring traffic to their site. Which I am not defending nor justifying (and I never will), it's just how the site works, and you have to realize what it is they are intending to do when they feature these comics. Grow the comic that will grow their site. Not grow the comics that aren't going to do more for them than tapastic would for it. It WOULD be nice to see tapastic have a more casual or community model to it in some regards. It WOULD be nice for it to be a growth platform for beginning artists. But that's not what it is nor is that the model it has, it has a business one.

Honestly this comes off more like a 'us vs. them' rant. As well as a 'I want the big numbers too right NOW, I work hard therefor I should get them' Now I'm not saying that comics with small numbers don't work hard. You're friggen drawing a comic, that's a god damn workload. But that in mind the comics with big numbers work hard too, they also started out small and had to grow their fanbase and numbers, and the work they do to maintain this is not to be overlooked, some of those comics update multiple times a week, I've seen some that have updates that add up to more that 7 updates a week. You see these comics constantly promoting themselves outside of tapastic, you see them posted on multiple hosting platforms, and a lot of these comics, did not get support from tapastic outside of a computer reading their stats and automatically filing them somewhere. While the ones that did get support, did so after they already showed signs of promising growth. Which is not really holding hands, it's more so feeding off success and then feeding it to help the site out, not the artist. To take the bike riding narrative into account, tapastic is not in the business of 'teaching the artist how to ride a bike'. They are in the business of putting their brand on the shirts of bike riders who already know how to ride a bike and who are getting cheered on by fans watching the race, using their success to their advantage to promote their brand. It's nothing personal. It's just business.

And again, I'm not defending tapastic or saying they don't have a bias towards what they feature. They do, and I honestly do not like the way they do a LOT of things, I think myself pretty damn vocal about that. I just really think you are getting the wrong idea of how the site works, of what it should do and even of the people that have managed to do well on it.

Comics that are staff picked, popular, trending and banner comics are not the enemy, and outside of the 'staff picked' and 'banner' selection are not supported by tapastic outside of computer algorithms putting them there.

Heck, the fact that low numbers should earn comics a crutch and special attention from Tapastic is just... I don't know the word for it but it's odd... I'm NOT saying "these comics have low numbers for a reason" "Get good" "You don't work hard enough" "Stuff with under 50 subs doesn't deserve to be seen" or anything like that. It's just not the nature of how work... works... you start at the bottom, you move your way up. If your not progressing you find a way to progress or you continue despite it, you either work with them or against them (both ways see success), Even for the comics that make it to the popular section on their own, there are many that will never see a staff or banner feature because despite having numbers and proving people are interested in them, they just do not meet Tapastic's promotional criteria. So even when it comes to actually getting special attention it's NOT the deciding factor to if your series ends up making it or not. While saying 'struggling under 50 subs deserves more attention than the comics that got over 50 by themselves because they don't need help' isn't helping anyone and really only creating factions and sides in a community that should NOT be attacking each other

Speaking of the community, the tapastic COMMUNITY is more than happy to help with all that, you can find threads intended to help out other artists, you can find artists trying to help other artists when it comes to advertising, you can find tutorials, you can find recommendation and promotion threads. It's all there and it's pretty great. Should this job belong to Tapastic though? No. And if they did they would need a new set of staff to handle it because the staff they have now are really out of touch with what its readers....well... right. We'll just go with they don't have the time for this.