Does anyone else miss the tone of old disney sometimes?

[Black_Conscious]

hmm yeah ,I would like it when they have like a mixture of those tbh or having a Balance

[Kura]

Though I can't comment on Raya since I have not seen it yet outside the trailer. This is kind of the result related to an issue I have with a lot of animated features that has been going on a long time, and honestly Disney is probably the least offender of it.

And that's when voices are hired for the actor's fame over if the actor would actually fit the character or not. To the point where a majority of the trailer for an animated feature will be dedicated to introducing the audience to the voice cast, over plot or even the names of the characters they are portraying.

So you end up with a lot of characters that just feel so out of place because the demands for the voice work is different, because comedian TM isn't trying to act as the character, and instead bringing themselves to the character that more often than not just makes the character them.

Now I'm not saying this method can't work, Robbin William as Genie worked amazing, but a lot of the times, it just doesn't and the characters stand out really bad and feel really displaced.

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

Just because the masses like a thing doesn't automatically make it fine art, you know? At least, that's how I see it.

[ratscout]

To be honest, my favorite Disney movies are the suuuuuper duper old ones (Pinnochio, Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, etc.) the animation was actually really gorgeous, and there's something I liked about the fact that they felt more like fairy tales than, I dunno, disney-fied fairy tales.

[irresponsiblepics]

As being an old git.
Yes. Sadly the mastery is all but gone.
Pinocchio, Bambi, Sleeping Beauty, Fantasia.
The studio was once all about the art.
THAT was the Disney magic to me.
Not anymore.

Raya and the last dragon looks like the usual trash to me...dare I say again pandering to the Chinese market.
Everything is all quip and sass and quite generic.
Its not set in a contemporary world dont have the dialogue be contemporary.

[RosesnWater]

I think the modern aspect falls into both what the character says as well as how the voice sounds. If you look at the side character/comic relief/sometimes mystical character in these movies there’s a sort of pattern.

Frozen: Olaf has never been my favourite but besides that he often made jokes that only someone in the 2000s would be able to appreciate and played by josh had, a well known celebrity. Maui from Moana has a VERY 20th century humour with many of his jokes like ‘when you write with a bird it’s called Twitter’ some of them are funny but most totally take me out of the setting which is supposed to be island culture thousands of years ago. And now we have Raya that has aN everyday Actresses voice nothing that really makes her stand out and she’s making remarks about her being the kid who doesn’t but any effort in the group project. Will audiences understand the context of the joke? Totally. But for the setting It makes no sense and it totally makes the dragon seem less dragon to me in some ways.

It would be the equivalent of Lummiere in Beauty and the Beast suggesting the beast to try some Tinder for setting his love life ‘afire’ the joke (Although terrible I’m sorry, I couldn’t think of anything for my point) works, we know Tinder is a dating site in the 20th century, the humour Relies on the idea of the beast using Tinder And lumiere is a candle stick so it kinda works. If something so off tone would have appeared in Beauty and the Beast it would have left a bad taste in my mouth (like the live action version did). This wasn’t supposed to be a rant when I first made it but it kind of turned into one because genuinely this something that feels off with Disney’s work these days.

Personally speaking I think this all really started with the first successful attempt of Disney bringing modern humour into a fantasy setting in Aladdin with the genie. The genie makes TONES of modern jokes although it does sort of work with his character Of an all knowing genie (one just assumes he knows the future) BUT most of them would go right over The head of kids who were born after 2000. I mean, does anyone even looking at this forum even know who Rodney Dangerfield is? The jokes are just way too dated, just like Maui’s twitter joke might be in 20-30 years. Disney had a favourable reaction To the genie and his humour who was played by the very energetic and theatric Robin Williams, but since Disney has continued to use this humour without context and without the same energy for voice actors, it kind of falls flat.

What it comes down to personally, Disney has mostly stopped searching for voices that suit the characters they’re playing (what @Kura said) and combined that with the modern dialogue the character is given totally takes the audience out of the fantasy world they’re trying to create and puts them in a Regular conversation.

[thel3tterm]

If you have a bit of time, I seriously recommend watching this video about how modern celebrity voice acting became a thing. It's really depressing, actually.

[Inspector_Spinda]

Pinocchio is definitely one of my favorites too. It also is one of the few without any animal sidekicks and one of the only early disney movies without a crazy amount of filler. It's probably because until the princess movies, the original pinocchio already had a ton of plot to borrow from

[RosesnWater]

Damnnn I’ve seen this but yah, this exactly is the point. Like if movies like Pinocchio had used humour from that era, not only would it be totally totally different in the future, it just makes the movie age poorly.

I really love this creator though, she’s got a really unique view of things-

[Inspector_Spinda]

Its not set in a contemporary world dont have the dialogue be contemporary

yeah that would be cool. on the other hand i like how to train your dragon, so it's not a 100% rule. and im pretty sure i will like this movie once i get a chance to watch it. my complaint is more of preferences.

or maybe im just upset raya seems like a ghibli movie in some areas, but seems to fall just short.

[TheDoublekey]

Ah yes, old Disney is all my childhood. I remember back when I used to watch the "Sword in the stone" film on repeat: it was my favourite. I don't know why, but their style had something so... magical to it, so mysterious and beautiful.
I don't know why, but all of their old animations have a different charm and even when I was a kid I noticed this kind of different vibe.

Now I'll go cry, because you just triggered my nostalgia

[Larua1997]

Agreed. There is just something timeless about the older films. I can't comment on Raya just yet as I haven't seen it, but I just don't have the same wonder and excitement as I once did when new 2D animated movies would come out.

Some of the things I miss from the "old days":
* the beauty and fluidity of the animation (This is a personal bias but I STRONGLY prefer 2D animation.)
* the villains just got to be villains and sing about being villains. Almost EVERY new Disney/Pixar villain is a TWIST/End reveal (with Mother Gothel being the exception.)
* Romance. I like a cool independent princess too, but the trend is to not have "prince" characters the new princess movies. (Raya, Moana, Brave). I'm a sucker for Disney couples! Almost every prince/princess had a prince/princess counterpart in the old films.
*This timelessness and artistic/storytelling mastery that was so present in the older works (including 90's films). Some of the newer films (while I really enjoyed them) seem a little clunky or cobbled with pacing or narrative issue that seem out of place.

I think of all the new films, "Tangled" comes closest to having that classic feeling the good ole films used to showcase. (Great villain, catchy tunes, beautiful scenery, and a fairytale romance.)

[Inspector_Spinda]

the villains just got to be villains and sing about being villains. Almost EVERY new Disney/Pixar villain is a TWIST/End reveal (with Mother Gothel being the exception.)

I don't really get the point of twist villains. even most adult media doesn't have twist villains. the only stuff i can think of with a twist villain that's actually good is something like star wars where darth vadar is the villain, but there's someone even more powerful that's not revealed or developed until the end.

and also crime dramas teehee

[irresponsiblepics]

Try and get to see Wolfwalkers. It has a classic/experimental aesthetic.
Excellent voice acting.
Villain is clear cut with clear motivations and resolution.
The kind of film Disney studios should of been making.

[thedude3445]

I don't think that this is true in many cases, especially with classic animation. Pinocchio didn't feature pop culture references, but its sense of humor was exactly in line with its era. Other contemporary Disney films--e.g. Fantasia, Dumbo--featured things that are exceedingly 40s, especially with the racist caricatures in both of those films. Besides the parts that have grown offensive over time, the movies still hold well just because they are very well made.

Contrast to Looney Tunes, which certainly used all sorts of pop culture references and even outright parody (Bugs Bunny eating carrots was a spoof of a famous 30s film), and fares about the same. While those shorts are certainly products of their time now (and there are PLENTY of morally repugnant shorts from the Merrie Melodies roster), the best of those are basically eternal classics just like Disney's films. Maybe the references fly over modern audiences, but the jokes sure still land.

A similar transformation is happening to the 90s era Disney films, but more importantly it's already happened to the 90s era WB/Spielberg cartoons--Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Pinky & the Brain, et. al. Those were and still are considered some of the best of all TV animation, but they were also jam-packed with so many pop culture references that sometimes you need an encyclopedia to get the jokes now even if you were alive at the time. But even with that, they haven't aged POORLY; they're still just as good now as they were thirty years ago.

I guess none of this matters that much to the topic of this Raya movie, but I am betting that it's no more contemporary or wacky than Aristocats was in the 70s or Mulan was in the 90s. And if it's good, it'll age just as well as all other Disney movies in 20 or 30 years' time.

The only Disney animation movies I've seen in the past many years are Zootopia and Wreck-it Ralph, though, so maybe timelessness isn't really something that's ever crossed my mind anyway lol

[Inspector_Spinda]

You may have a point there

[nathanKmcwilliams]

I just echo the opinion that I miss the villains from the old animated Disney movies. There's a simplicity there, we didn't have to understand their upbringing or background, just that they were out for blood and nothing would stop them.

[RosesnWater]

The humour is definitely in line For Pinocchio, I’d agree (tho also it’s been a long time since I’ve seen it) and i definitely didn’t even want to touch dumbo because the reason you underlined, as for the animaniacs/picky and the brain, and all those Warner Brother products of the same vein, I Would personally give that a pass more because it’s design was supposed to be funny, they are strictly comedies, the jokes were supposed to be zany and borrow from our world, like the simpsons for example.

I think the important thing is for Disney to figure out what it wants to be/the tone it wants to set. I can’t believe they are aiming to come off as a WB cartoon unlike something like Hotel Transylvania (which also has a lot of references, which are totally hilarious and well suited to the story) but Most of Disney’s stories are about storytelling, and for me at least combined with picking celebrity actors over decent voice actors, the jokes don’t fit with the material. It’s like a cheap laugh.

You have really good points about Mulan, but just like Eddie Murphy was A very spirited voice actor, the parts that were the pop culture humour references were my least favourite as compared to his genuinely good shtick with the cricket and mulan. It’s the same with the gargoyles in Hunch back of Notre Dame (which most people I’ve talked to weren’t a big fan of). I get, these characters and their punch lines are supposed to cut the very serious moments of war/oppression and racism, but they do it very awkwardly and often not well. Although obviously you want them to be children friendly (which I believe you still can do even if the content isn’t 100% happy ending) but if you want a story to have gravitas, you shouldn't split the tone up as much. Much like the Ghibli film Spirited away Was made I think in 2000-ish It has its moments of comedy, but it’s not In itself a comedy Like animaniacs, it isn’t the place for lines that will take audiences out of the movie. Oh or avatar you get TONES of humour, but you’re not going to risk tone or world building by throwing in a 2000s pop culture reference that shouldn’t even exist in that world.(The cabbages scene is perfect for this, no one has to know anything about cabbages, it’s just funny)

I feel like that’s a lot from me, your points definitely gave me a lot to think about, but I think for the most part I’d still keep the idea there’s a time and place for pop culture humour, for the most part, it just doesn’t really belong in a totally different Fantasy world where the main focus isn’t humour And you can still get hilarious scenes without referencing back to our world. But on the other hand I don’t dislike pop culture references (again, I very much enjoyed hotel Transylvania, the simpsons and animaniacs tho I haven’t got around to watching the new one)

[crowstories]

Sleeping Beauty was my favorite growing up, and I still think it's visually lovely, but the last time I watched it (as a teenager) I had to cringe a bit at how useless that princess was. This is kind of the issue with those older movies... it was a different era, when princesses mostly waited around to be rescued and sometimes spent half the film in a coma, but I did like the tone of the old school fairy tale that they used.

Personally I think Beauty and the Beast really hit the sweet spot in terms of balance. The leads were able to bring a certain amount of gravitas to the darker moments (and Belle was reasonably badass), but with plenty of silly side characters to keep things light. Also, because the beast was the "straight man" (in comedy terms) the more lighthearted moments involving him brought a different kind of humor than having all of the characters cracking jokes all the time. Plus Gaston is basically a frat boy, and what more believable villain could there be?? My main criticism is that as soon as the beast was returned to his human form I was like "ew, turn him back" lmao.

I think the next movie, Aladdin, was the tipping point into pop culture reference hell. Don't get me wrong, I love that movie and Robin WIlliams as the Genie, but after his 1000 different impersonations it seemed like they just went further and further down that path.

[RosesnWater]

I mean.... beauty and the beast is my favourite Disney film, so I am very biased, but yah I agree It strikes a beautiful balance. (Tho I liked the prince but I think that’s just differences in taste).