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Dec 2021

Hey everyone! Had a fun theory-crafting conversation last night about magic systems within our stories and I was curious about what other writers' magic and spell systems are all about.

In the world of Descendants of Ether, every inhabitant of Chao is born with Mana, some more so than others.

Mana is used to cast all types of Magic, which is split into 12 primary elements (outlined in their respective languages in the chart below).

Certain elements are strong against some and weak against others ie: fire > flora > water > fire.

The Elder Elements are considered forbidden magics and are seldom used in practical applications.

Curious to know more? Feel free to checkout Descendants of Ether premiering in January by following the link here:

Or get a headstart by reading up on the official lore book companion found here:

https://theoculus.neocities.org/11

Eager to learn about your various magics!

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    Dec '21
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Still in the buffering stage of this particular work, so I don't have a link and but The Witches of Ingot Lake (working title) has a magic system that works best in practice rather than explanation but I'll try to break it down simply.

So, for simplicity's sake, magic is split into 3: Heart, Soul and Mana. Hearts are similar to familiars and take the form of animals, they are a reflection of a person's truest nature and contains half of a person's Mana and Soul as a protective measure. They have an intelligence of their own and are more intelligent than normal animals, but not as intelligent as humans. They can grow stronger and weaker, can be damaged and even sacrificed. Mana is your natural magical conductive energy. It allows you to draw magic from the world around you and bind it to your Mana to redirect it. The more Mana you have and the stronger than Mana is, the more magic you can draw into you without side effects. Mana naturally replenishes to your natural levels but cannot be grown, however can be strengthened. Soul is your life force. This can be used in place of Mana, however doesn't natural replenish. It diminishes as you grow older, can be weakened by illness or poison and when gone, you're dead. All people have all three of these things.

The majority of the world has very low Mana reserves, and so don't tend to waste their time on magic themselves. Technology and magical items and pre-made magic seals ect are the norm to channel magic for you, made by those with higher magical potential and stronger magic. Even with low level Mana reserves, you can still become a great magic user, if you prefect ways of using the world's magic via other means of channelling, such as magical stones, potions, runes and circles. Magic in this regard is considered a high academic pursuit similar to science/alchemy.

Beyond that, there are two special types of magic users:

  • People with a unique symbol on their body, often over their heart, which generally signifies they have a very strong gift in a certain area of magic and will often have incredible strong, but low level of Mana that burns through at a higher than normal pace. During a ritual, they can put their symbol on others and use them as a battery, draining them of their Mana and Soul for their own use.
  • People who are born the opposite, with naturally strong and high levels of Mana but for some reason almost entirely unable to use magic, as if magic itself was rejecting them. They can take on the symbols of others and act as a source for them without getting burnt out. Unlike normal people, they can be a source for more than one person at once.

And that is the simple version.

Very very cool! I think the familiar system is very interesting as well as the fact that many people don't have much mana. Makes me feel like there's a bit of separation between those who can use magic freely and those who use tools to compensate.

What kind of spells are cast in the world? What are some of the consequences of using magic?

The magic system in Legends of Camelot hasn't been explained yet, but it works like this:

Magic is the use of the language of the gods. To cast a spell you need to combine symbols in that language, read them and spend an inner energy from the soul called Mana. This energy replenishes at the beginning of a new day. Every person starts with a low reserve, but can be increased with constant practice and training. The spell lasts as long as the mage is focussed on it. (there are exceptions, but that requires some specific attribute symbols)

Wizards carry these symbols in written form in a visible surface to be able to cast quickly. Some scribe them in their tools, weapons, clothes or whatever comes handy, even tatoos. There is also a complex technique of quick gestures in which the mage writes the symbols in the air while casting a spell.

There are 4 kind of symbols that represent different kinds of words (like nouns, verbs, adjectives and adverbs). You need at least one effect and one target for a spell to work, but the other types are completely optional. You can combine as many symbols as you like.

Effects: they define what the spell does. Those come in the form of verbs. You need at least one effect for a spell to work, but you can add as many as you like

Targets: they define what is affected by the spell. Those come in the form of nouns. You need at least one target for a spell to work, but you can add as many as you like

Attributes: they allow to overcome regular limitations of spellcasting and cast spells in unconventional ways, but they add complexity to the spell. They come in the form of adjectives.

Conditions: they lower the complexity of a spell by limiting the circumstances in which it will work. The more strict the limitation, the more they lower the spell complexity They come in the form of adverbs.

The interpretation of the symbols is literal. a spell with the symbols "create" and "fire" only allows to create fire. If you want to also control it you would need the symbol "control", or if you want to shoot a fireball, to add the symbol of "push"

How good a mage is casting certain kinds of spells depends of 2 factors:

-Complexity of the symbols: for example, targeting humans is more complex than targeting air. and targeting reality itself is considered impossible, even for the mightiest mages.

-Affinity: this is affected by the wizard understanding and emotional connection with the words involved while casting the spell.

It's a lot like technology for us. We all use it, but very few of us know how it really works beyond a general idea. Greater minds than ours invent it and create it. Magic is done in a very similar way so people can use it day to day. But those people do tend to be in higher positions, since they're inventors or academics like professors, but since those with low Mana reserves are the majority, those with high levels of Mana tend to be pushed into pursuing it, lest their talent go to waste.

Realistically, anything imaginable is possible to use magic for, the issue is having enough Mana to manipulate magic to do it and figure out how to get it done. Spells work on state of mind and "trigger phrases" in a lot the same way a kid believing a teddy scares away monsters, stops monsters turning up. By associating a magical response with key phrases, magic will general respond, so figuring out how to form these trigger phrases is the trickiest part of creating new magic. Spells day to day are generally 2 or 3 phrases. The more phrases the more complicated the spell and generally the more Mana required.

For instance:

“Joyous firebird, let your burning feathers fall.”

vs

“Ode to the Silver Queen, and her jester herein, clearest night and starless sky. Light up this stage, nymph who dances, come forth from the depths to my command.”

They're from the same character, the first is a simple spell to light glow crystals, the second is spell to create a golem from a koi pond. The first phrase is always a primer that becomes the base of magic circles, invoking the particular element being used as a base, and then every phrase beyond that is a modifier that adds a circle layer to the magic circle. Spells are also basically fingerprints and DNA that can be traced back form student to teacher/family thanks to the way the mindset works, watching someone use the phrase and seeing it work makes you associate that phrase with the response. For instance this particular character uses particularly old, archaic phrasing in his primers (Silver Queen is moon/water magic and Joyous Firebird is bird/fire magic) that those in the know can recognise as a clear sign of being a student of one particularly famous, elite teacher who uses the same archaic phrasing.

Socially, there's little consequence to using it. Those with magic tend to be in higher places in the way many of academics and professors are in our world, so those with a knack for it tend to be upper-middle to upper classes and is generally runs within genes, so good magical ability and higher Mana often runs in the family. The only time there's much social consequence to magic is if you're one of the two special types of users, which ranges greatly by culture. The ones who have the most social consequences tend to be the ones who are basically batteries; them generally being forced to rely on magical items even more than normal people, and their ability to be used as batteries means they're often seen as less. Some cultures keep them (some as prisoners, some as willing partners treated well) of those in power and with stronger magical leanings to be used as batteries

Physically, Mana drains as you use magic. Being energy, it can run you down if you use too much. Pushing your limits too much can leave you exhausted or flu-y while you recover. Pushing even harder, if your Mana runs out the magic starts using your Soul instead, and that burns out your lifeforce, eventually killing you. This is why the Hearts exist, so that if you're on your last legs and desperate, you still have half your Mana and Soul to fall back on if you're willing to sacrifice the Heart.

I abuse magic as a plot device.

It's softer than silken tofu that's left in your car for a few days in the middle of July in south Florida.

My wizards are all sanitation and energy workers. They crap out magic stones that do things like climate control, provide electricity, water, climate control, you name it!

I call it... Utility magic. Then we have divinity and soul magic, which is taboo because no one knows what it really does.

I'm writing a parody though. All of these villainess isekais randomly introduce magic 50 chapters in and everyone is a grand mage and they have air conditioning now.

Magic is bullshit! In my story anyway.

@descendantsofether

Holy moly, that's a lot of sweat and blood on those pages. I admire your work ethic, logic, and creativity.

@HGohwell

That's a lot to keep track of since there is a potential for everyone to be unique. I like the symbol idea; I'm a big fan of sick tattoos.

@DiegoPalacios

Ahh you have sick tattoos, I love it!! :coffee_love:

I like that you tie emotions into it. Wizards are book smart, but now they gotta be heart smart too :heart_01:

Haha it's not too bad. The spells themselves are generally the same, I just have to remember to write down the variations when they come up. But very few of the characters use active magic like spells very often. It's a lot more common to use premade items. It'd be like use having to make a computer every time we want to use one. Or a standard hero having to forge a new sword before every battle.

Yeah, it is, at its heart, a pistilverse, so magic tattoos being passed between people is integral to its construction.

Not every mage has tatoos, but those come really handy for the ones who use some specific symbols a lot (or the mages that don't cover up their body too much XD)

Thanks!, i wanted to make magic in my comic a harmonious blend of logic and passion. :grin:

There's also an element of creativity in the symbol combinations wizards come up with and the different uses they give to certain spells.

It has several parts. Magic (Arcane Sciences as they're called in my novel) require multiple steps.

  1. Spell Formula: A set of equations focusing on the effect you want to generate.
  2. Cibus Crystal: A focusing crystal that not only serves to gather energy but also has each face polished and carved with a Spell Formula. (Number of sides of your Crystal limit the number of spells you can use)
  3. Vis: Invisible energy that can be perceived and channeled by Arcanists (Mages) There is a limit to how much Vis you can channel without side effects.
  4. Chanting: Chants are shortened versions of whole stretches of Spell Formula that basically serve as a voice command tied to the Spell Formula carving on the Cibus Crystal.

An Arcanists needs to know a Spell Formula, have it engraved into his Cibus Crystal, gather the Vis from his surroundings and chant the correct words to trigger the effects. They also need to channel Vis in other ways to keep the cohesion of the spell at long ranges or alter the spell in different ways.

There are many schools of Arcane Sciences, with Alchemy, Necromancy, and Scripti being some of the most well-known. Necromancy is considered a Taboo penalized by execution.

Chants usually follow a set order.

Effect > Direction > Mutation

Effect: What the spell does
Direction: Where the spell goes.
Mutation: How the spell changes depending to your need.

For example

Zephyranima (1st Chant) creates an "Elemental Core" a sphere of elemental might conjured through manipulations of the surroundings with Vis.

Facies Impetus (2nd Chant) sends it forward in relation to were the Arcanists is aiming his Cibus Crystal.

Locusursum (3rd Chant) is another directionality modification, making the spell move up after reaching the desired target.

Mutatio Spargo (4rd Chant) is a mutation chant, that makes the spell scatter into smaller versions.

With these 4 chants a character pushed noxious gasses out from a room into the ventilation shafts built in the walls and ceiling.

This has been super cool to read so far. I love that everyone has such different takes on magic and their systems. Where do you guys take inspiration from for your systems? For me, a lot of mine stems from Pokemon with the way the elements react. What about you all?

The magic system for Legends of Camelot has a surprisingly nerdy source of inspiration. :sweat_smile:

I was inspired by language classes and that's why the magic symbols involved nouns, verbs, adjectives and adverbs....so....yeah, i ended up using that seemingly obscure thing i learned in school......

For the visual design of the magic symbols, i got inspired by actual symbols used in multiple ancient cultures while aiming to stay as accurate as possible and in some cases using mathematical symbols.

Legends of Camelot is a new one lol. Very cool that you use mathematical symbols as well. Later on, in my series when the sciences get more widely adopted, I aim to do something similar.

Mine sorta comes from all over the place smushed together.

A lot of the actual workings practically like the layers of phrasing and words forming the way the mind works to interact with magic are inspired by Akashic Records of Bastard Magic Instructor, which is in many ways a basic light novel magical school "he's unless but that uselessness makes him a genius" type but has some fascinating magic system building and does take an interesting look at how magic would be, like most sciences, turned to military use pretty quickly.

The actual elemental system is based on Japanese Kachou Fuugetsu which I have been trying to formulate a system based on for ages, which is more seasonal than elemental. There's not really a sense of elements being stronger than others, but more focus on how the spells are used. For instance barrier magic is technically wind magic that works but "solidifying" the air making theoretically impenetrable barriers and then it just takes one smart ass to realise you can shape that barrier into a blade and suddenly solid air sword.

I first started messing with the idea of two parts of a sort of symbiotic relationship when I was a teen so idk what first inspired it, but it was originally 2 types of magic user and one who had naturally high Mana and would have that torn out into a ring and then shared with their partner as part of a marriage ritual (sharing a literal part of your soul with your partner) but being generally not aggressive by nature, eventually developing into a mutually beneficial relationship with the other type who're low in Mana but naturally more aggressive. And so I've been messing with it for a while trying to fine tune it (from my teenage days when I had lots of cool idea but none of the skill to pull them off).

I imagine the things like Hearts were probably influenced by His Dark Materials and the general concept of familiars but it's another thing I've been kicking around forever so I have no idea where it actually came from.

Magic in Heaven Hunters is a kind of a hard system. Spells are typically cast by drawing a variation of a goetic sigil. The spell can be summoned without the sigil, but it acts as a kind of focus point for the caster, kind of like a magical check list. Like how certain music will affect your mood. Casting is highly individualized, and each caster has their own unique set of sigils that they make while learning. Some magic users, like Savina, are so adept at it that they don't need the checklist, and can cast spells without the sigils. This is extremely rare, and can only be achieved with an exceptional level of training and skill. An added side effect of doing it this way is the user's emotional state affects the potency of the spells. The more powerful the emotion, the more magic arcs out of the caster.

Casters use their soul as fuel. Soul isn't a single object that our bodies contain, it's a spiritual essence that all living things produce, much like blood. Draining a vessel of it's soul effectively kills what the creature was, and it cannot regenerate any more soul. Casting spells doesn't drain the caster's soul, it amplifies the production of it. The spell is a true manifestation of the intent of the caster. When a magic user is sufficiently advanced, they produce a lot of soul. If they're particularly powerful, they produce so much that their body cannot contain the amount, and it comes out in the form of neshamah vapor. This is very uncommon. Very few demons ever get this powerful. When this does happen, the vapor usually exits via eyes and/or mouth.

I have hard sci fi lore as to how they got their magic and why it works, but I may not ever use it. It doesn't really matter, and I like the mysticism surrounding their abilities. I took a lot of inspiration from occult magic, seals of solomon, and I throw in some other stuff like glamour spells from fae magic, and give it a sci fi twist by including things like dimension hopping.

Note: Characters understand what they're doing, and how to manipulate the fabric of the universe, so demons never ever use the word "magic", even though it's clearly magic to us. It's like how a cellphone would be magic to someone from the 16th century, but to us it's just a cellphone. It doesn't work using mystical forces, calling it magic would be silly.

Adding a bit to this topic, when and how do you explain your magic systems?

Personally, i haven't explained anything yet, but dropped some hints of how magic works....

The most basic visual hint are the symbols used in spellcasting

The other hint came organically due to a character using some assasination tactics:

I plan on adding explanations as they become relevant and as they are organic, introducing the readers gradually. Most of the explicit explanations would come from characters teaching magic to others, or a character explaining a teammate key limitations of their spells for tactical reasons....

Of course, if anyone has some tips on explaining magic systems, they are more than welcome :grin:

I don't think you have to explain everything. I understand that with all of the effort that goes into world building and writing all this stuff out behind the scenes that you want to show it off in the story, but sometimes explaining the world building minutia comes at the expense of the final product. As long as you know how everything works and you're consistent in your execution, if the reader doesn't absolutely need to know it to understand what's happening in the story, then it probably doesn't need to be said.

This is why a part of me really wants to make games instead; you can literally dump ALL the lore and it won't overwhelm the player because it's their choice to explore it :stuck_out_tongue: But alas, writing and art is already stretching the limits of my abilities, nevermind coding, music and all that other stuff :'D

Explaining is one of the most annoying parts of any magical system, and I never buy into not explaining. When I think about magic systems that interest me, there's always at least some level of basic explanation. I think one explanation I once heard was that by giving the reader the rules of the magic system, they can then start to imagine and predict how it could be used to get out of a situation creatively, like trying to put together the pieces of a mystery. In a similar vein to things like sports anime, if you consider the rules of the sport a magic system and the players the people who use magic, you have to figure out how they're going to beat each other within the rules of the game, rather than an asspull. And similarly, you have to figure out how to explain the rules of the game, but no one ever says "don't explain the rules of the game" right?

And, I think to continue with the sports analogy, I think the best way to explain things is as they're doing it. Continuing with sports, you know the rules of the game and the techniques used, so as long as no one breaks said rules, the reader can go back once something has been explained and go "oh hey, they've been doing that from the start" which is always cool.

For my own, some of it is easier to do organically than others. For instance, everyone in my story just has an animal following them around that will every now and again use magic and the animal symbolism is strong, but of course getting to explaining they're half of your is a bit trickier. The story starts at an Awakening Centre and one of the first major beats is an awakening of a main character getting their symbol, so naturally it's easy to go from "you have a symbol" to "so you're a [insert what I eventually name them here]" and having to leave the centre and naturally from that comes his experimentation with his newly awakened magic, so as he learns so do we. The problem is, of course, doing is organically. Classrooms are so over done and cheap excuse to info dump. But I think combat, if possible, is a lot better sort of place to do it. You can see the limitations and abilities of the magic system in action.

For instance, one of my favourite, and underrated series Chronos Ruler, used the passing of time, either slowing or speeding up as the main "magic" to control their chosen medium. They say this pretty bluntly pretty early one, and because the rule is simple, it's easy to follow. Then take us to our mid-season finale. The main character in particular used playing cards as his medium. We know that he can speed up and slow them down, but we also know the lady he's fighting has the ability to undo his time control, so what does he do? He has a layer of stopped/super slowed cards, hiding/holding back, a layer of super fast projectile cards, so when she undoes the stopped cards, she gets hit with a surprise attack. And because we know the rules, simple as they are, you then go "ooooh that's really clever". Similarly, A Bastard Magical Instructor which as mentioned I take a lot of inspiration from in the actual mechanics of the system, you can tell shit gets real when the MC requires an magic stone and his spell has several more layers than anything we've seen before. When Extinction Ray is firm seen, it's longer and even pointed out within canon to be "wow a seven layered spell" and something that simple says yeah that's something powerful (also that it's called Extinction Ray but you know) and special because 7 layers.

So yeah, I think the answer to how is simply as possible, or in action, and the when is all the time without actually saying anything.

Ok so before I tell you the Magic system I have to tell you how it was created.
in the beginning there was great evil, it fed off of the pain and suffering of the people. The more the people lost hope the more the evil grew, until one day a great power was born. This power was brought into existence by a person who used this great power and sacrificed himself to lock the great evil away. That sacrifice caused the three gods to be born, each one having an unique aspect of the world the govern. The people were filled with hope again, and that hope fueled the great power. The three gods decided to create the Spark, which was only a tiny fraction of the great power.

Now that I gave a bit of context to the spark I can explain how it works. Whenever a person has a true epiphany, whether it is standing up to evil, or having an original idea, or just connecting with someone who is hurting; the three gods lights the spark in them. It is a symbiotic relationship, the person harvests pure fuel from the environment to feed the Spark and in return it gives the person an ability that helps them survive. The three gods govern the three aspects of what makes humanity, Humanity. The first aspect is Drayparin it is the body, The second aspect is Ciroono it is the mind, and the third aspect is Tinrith it is the soul.

Now each aspect determines what ability the person is going to get. Draparin is the body so it gives the person a body enhancing ability, like strength or resistance to external force. Ciroono is the mind so it gives the person a mind enhancing ability, like improved intelligence or telepathy. And last but not least: Tinrith, it is the soul so it either gives the person the ability to create Luxin which is a solid form of part of the spark or an environmental changing ability like Spatial manipulation or atmokinesis.

There are people who can have a mix of different aspects. When two aspects merge, they give the person a more complicated ability, example: if a person has Ciroono and Tinrith it might give them telekinesis. or if they have Drayparin and Tinrith, it might give them the ability to grow in size.

A few example abilitys from my novel The Connections:
Conner Cohen; AKA cupid. Ciroono aspect, He has the ability to incite an attraction between two people.
Avery; AKA Anemoi. Ciroono and Tinrith aspect, he has the ability to create intense gusts of wind.
Lieutenant Avner Seax; AKA Reaper. Drayparin and Ciroono aspects, His name was not given to him Because he can instil fear in others, but because how well he can kill a man. He has the ability to make clear and precise decisions while his senses are greatly heightened. He is a master in the marital arts and is extremely proficient in the field of weapons. His main weapon of choice is the reaper scythe. Not even the real grim reaper has the balls to mess with him.
Zach Carter(main protagonist); AKA Smith. Currently has no spark, but he is Avner Seax's disciple in the art of self defence, He is also a revered blacksmith known to have made many legendary weapons.

I know this is not a promotion thread but after my explanation of the Spark I think some of you would like to read my novel. I dive in deep on the Science behind the cool Abilities and Inventions that are in my novel so enjoy.

29 days later

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