Don't bother with collaborations

[Lensing]

Really hillarious that someone drew this

I don´t feel different about this story compared to other superhero comics

[candiedcotton]

I think it should also be said that it's a lot easier to determine the quality of an artist's work ahead of time than that of a writer. While both can offer samples of their work, it seems like it's really hard to find proper scripts and synopsis in the collab threads I've seen. I'd also say maybe one in twenty or so have had stories I found worthwhile.

That isn't to say there isn't a ton of artists looking for work who should probably get their skills at a better quality if they want to find said work (it's probably the majority as well and this is in most communities with collab/for-hire posts), but it's easier to weed through them. Trying to determine if a script/story is worth sinking time in as an artist (especially if you aren't being commissioned) pretty much requires going over the whole script itself. And a LOT of the stuff coming from the "looking for artist" posts doesn't even offer an actual script or story at all. Over half of the few that do have no idea how to write in script format and the artist shouldn't have to take apart a novel to make it into a script themselves. Writing a book is not the same as writing a comic script. Scenes and events that read well in a book might translate very poorly when drawn in panels. So that really makes it incredibly difficult to find a decent writer.

Personally I would be thrilled to collab with a writer, and I'd be fine to do it for free just for the pleasure of the experience. It's been quite a long time since I've done so, however, because it feels like nobody has any idea how to script for a comic.

[officialgenesis]

Absolutely......!! I agree.

[officialgenesis]

That's great! Yea, I have zero interest in learning how to draw etc. that's why collab with artists with the skillset I need is the only way for me to make comics as a writer. OP's argument to teach ourselves how to draw wouldn't work for me. Even if I should learn how to draw, I don't think I will ever be at the level I expect from the artists I work with.

[Iris-Grimoire]

"Anecdote=evidence", "only romance is popular", "no one wants to pay writers", techbro moment at the end, Bingo! Where's my prize?

[DiegoPalacios]

All i can say is that when it comes to collaborations is important to choose wisely the people you work with.

It's way easier to find a good squad and focus on your vision if you are willing to pay tho

Before recruiting someone make sure to check their portfolio (sometimes their comic can work as one too), and to get to know their work ethics. The people i hire are skilled, honest and disciplined, and before any commitment i made sure that was the case.

Getting people to commit to work for free is way harder, specially for a long time, they gotta get something out of the deal.

Some people agree to go on percentages of profits, but that is hard to pull off if you don't have a solid way to prove that the project has the potential for it.

[LunarScyphozoa]

Looks like someone had a bad day and is projecting their personal issues onto the whole community of artists/writers, do you need to take a nap?

[Spectorium_1]

Totally agree, if writers aren't willing to appreciate artists and make their lives easier, there's no point in the artist working with them. The supply of willing artists vs. the demand is too low for writers to be picky.

[PapaDom]

Ah, I see. Another issue with payment during a collaboration. Fear not, my friend. I've got an easy three-step solution for earning money without requiring a real job.

Step 1: Look up how much organs cost

Step 2: Give your partner a visit

Step 3: Sell and profit

And there you go. No more money problems. Hope this helps.^^

---

(Serious reply: What I've learned over the years is when you need something done right, do it yourself. You may have problems and need to learn some stuff on your own, but you save more money and brain cells that way, rather than relying on others.)

[YS_og]

It only took me one attempt to do a collaboration here (almost 2 years ago) to realize what is REALLY at stake and what a proper collaboration should comprise of for it to be fair and productive. After that, I stopped asking for one not because it made me bitter, but rather, I just understood what all it takes and it would be overwhelming to follow through with, so I backed away. Ever since then I just focused on improving my craft.

You could, you know, do the same. Posting here doesn't help anyone, including yourself.

[Azifri]

If it helps you to know, here on Tapas I've participated in two comic collaborations, plus a few others that were standalone images. Of my 2 comic collabs, one worked out quite well and we managed to finish a 6-page Christmas-themed comic. The other was supposed to be a 10-page romance/scifi/drama comic - we did the script but then motivation faded and that was the end of the collab. Based on my little experience doing collaborations I'd say go for something small, with clear limits, and where everyone is actually a collaborator who contributes roughly the same to the project (a writer, after done writing, can still help gather references, doing promo on social media, etc). Also, since collaborations are for free, it has to be something that motivates everyone and is done for fun. Make it sound like work and I know I'd disappear in a heartbeat. If you want to do a large project using free labor... I'm honestly not sure that'll work out ^^

[Mallory]

I think the inherent issue with collaborations is that... like anything else in life, it only really works if two people are on the same page and have reason to trust and respect each other. I think a lot of amateur comic writers don't realize that what they're doing is essentially the equivalent of running up to a stranger on the street and going "LET'S START A COMPANY TOGETHER, I HAVE AN AWESOME IDEA FOR ONE! I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE THOUGH, AND I HAVE NO IDEA THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE HUNDREDS OF UNPAID HOURS OF OUR TIME (MOSTLY YOURS ) BEFORE WE CAN EVEN KNOW IF THIS COMPANY IS A SUCCESS!" Like... who the f is gonna say yes to that? Maybe a few living-it-large people with no fear might, but good luck stumbling across them by chance (also they may also only stick around until a better living-it-large offers comes by, and then they'll be gone, since the living-it-large lifestyle was the only reason they agreed in the first place).

Start-ups (and collaborations) usually happen between friends or acquaintances who are also professionally-involved (my uncle's imaging company was formed by him and a couple of his fellow PhD students while he was getting his doctorate). Even in situations where the collaborators may not initially know each other, they would have typically heard OF each other in their professional endeavors. In the context of art forums, this may be people who have spoken to one another many times, have seen bits and pieces of one another's work before, and are reasonably confident that their interests - and world-views - align enough to build something together that they would both enjoy.

This is where some writers typically go "but I cannae JUST write! I must have pictures that elevate me in internet status that better aligns with the (assuredly) amazing quality of my writing!" And the answer is... you know the golden rule of writing? The "show, don't tell" one? Yeah. SHOW that you're a good writer. Stop telling people about it. You can do that on your own, without pictures. It's called writing in prose, and its market share in English is, well... significantly bigger than all comics combined.

[candiedcotton]

Agreed. I know I'd definitely be stoked to work with a few people I've interacted with here, just because I've seen some of their work and have gotten a feel of their personality just enough that I think we'd get along. That alone is a big bonus to me.

[TheLemmaLlama]

Most collaborations never workout.

Do you even lift bro?

---

Jokes aside, honestly I don't think you're wrong. Most of anything that involves multiple people don't wort out. Heck, most stuff that involves only one person don't work out. (Just dig through the graveyard of abandoned webcomics - there are tons :'D)

Getting shit done is hard, and coordinating with people is even harder. If it's not worth it for you, that's fine. If you can find a way to get it done yourself, more power to you. The only thing I take issue with is this line:

The creative ecosystem is honestly trash, and it sucks that we place a handful of skills above everything else online

, which sort of makes me feel like you're more trying to guilt-trip the creative community for valuing artists above writers, rather than genuinely just trying to inform writers about what's in their best interests. I don't like assuming people's intentions, and if you say that's not your intention, I do believe you; it's just that's how it comes across, if that makes sense

So go, make your comic, show us you're a strong independent writer who don't need no artist. This might sound facetious, but genuinely, I wish you the best of luck. See you on the other side :]

[Freemints30]

I mostly have done collabs with friends I made on tapas honestly and a few art trade and one time had a beta reader to a short horror werewolf au.

Honestly they were short and were fun, and I feel are ususally the best way a free collab can go. Since it was more a cross promotion thing and neither of us expected like making it big. Just having fun with no hurt feeling.

I know a guy here who has an artist for their story they pay constantly to make covers, illustrations, ect for their novels. A dynamic duo.

I can say you can make thread offering your services, cus your art is very pretty so Im 100% sure you'll get bites but...

Ive seen how those free artist threads go, some people can't seem to get the meaning of a collab is not a "sell you soul and hands for me"

[AxemanRifflord]

Ive seen how those free artist threads go, some people can't seem to get the meaning of a collab is not a "sell you soul and hands for me"

Yeah, I got that thread where someone was asking for 20 chapters for a school project (about 40 panels per chapter) stuck in my head reading this thread. I’m kinda morbidly curious as to where they got those numbers from.

[candiedcotton]

Yeah, I've made trades like that with friends over the years and it's just really fun to do.

And thanks, I quite like your work as well (I did read Demon's Nook), haha. I wouldn't want to make a thread myself, but I don't mind putting myself out there for offers or whatever. But yes, the amount of people who expect outright artist enslavement is... frustrating.

[conventurecomics]

I don't do collaborations mainly because of the demands made I may not get exactly what they want me to do.

[NellieVP318]

I'm mostly a writer but I do draw from time to time. I'm not perfect and would probably never be able to make a comic/manga type comic. I have a lot of respect for artists for their craft and collaborations are a team effort once exceptions are made clear to all parties. The problem I mostly see with some of these collabs that I see is there is unrealistic expectations in there. Collaborations aren't the problem, it's where the parties don't make their expectations clear from that start. Mostly collaborations are supposed to be for fun, rarely about money and they can be short term.

I have done collaborations and always admire the artists on Tapas and other art sites I have been on. Also, writers should stop saying stuff like writing is easy. Sure, everyone can write, but being a good writer takes hard work. Just because you aren't drawing with a pen doesn't mean doing research, studying storytelling and grammar, and learning how to edit isn't work. If you make a bad story, people will not read it even if you have have the best art skills in the world. Your poor storytelling and writing can kill a novel or a comic despite having good art. Both art and writing when it comes to any media work together.

Then again, that's just my opinion.

[TopJimComics]

One thing I think you have to consider is who is taking the most risk. If you collaborate with an artist and it doesn't work out, then you can take your story and find another artist. Or you write a novel from it.

The artist, however, all of that work is at best part of a portfolio. All of their time spent for your project was a waste.