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spiderbrahdfo13
Sep '22

Most collaborations never workout. What usually happens is the artist will get bored then movie on, or you don't enjoy the project and don’t feel like writing this artist’s epic for free. Then theres money. Artists and writers are both generally broke and no one wants to pay writers since our skills, are seen as “Easy”, and no one can afford an artist’s rate long term. So I think it’s in your best interest to avoid collaborations. There's obviously exceptions but likely that most will fail. Clear to say if your a comic writer or even a non romance writer, it is hard to get any attention at all.

So I recommend we start teaching ourselves to draw or even use AI to help make our comics for us. AI is getting very good lately and some comics are even being made from it. The creative ecosystem is honestly trash, and it sucks that we place a handful of skills above everything else online, but it’s our task to find a way around it.

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There are 63 replies with an estimated read time of 15 minutes.

KelheorRegular
Sep '22

And don't forget to use AI to write your comic.

Lensing
Sep '22

A collaboration can only work when you find people who have the same
vision/dream and that´s indeed very rare.

Working for free to fulfill another person´s dream is not a collaboration
and why should anyone want to do that?

RedLenai
Sep '22

Well, as an artist who has worked on collaborations before I can agree and put some imput into it

Definetly this usually happens when there is nothing to gain for the artist, this usually happens when the story, characters, plot, genre, everything is solely of the Writer and the artist is only a means to an end.

This also happens the other way around if the roles are inverted, the writer is the one making something that is solely from the artist, their idea, their characters, their plot, genre, etc.

Actually, if a writer sees their own ability as easy, then of course is going to undercharge for them, I can easily see both writers and artist charging way lower than the minimum wage. I've also seen several writers who have already built quite a fanbase, an income or simply have writing as a second career or hobby, to pay for artist long term (I've been drawing for a writer for almost 4 years now, shameless promo to Scarlet Society1, Yandere City -series TBA- and Love Quotes1)

Some collaborations do actually work, the thing is that most of the time since there is not a balance, and one will likely take advantage of the other, or demanding way more than what one is offering, then of course, these are going to likely fail if there isn't clear communication. Most of the time, collaborations that have an idea born within two, have higher chances to grow compared to others where the goals, the structure and more are solely of one person and the other is there being a tool to achieve those things.

I believe this is more of a problem about not knowing how to properly promote yourself, a lot of the time I see writers or comic artists dumping their episodes with very irregular schedules, posting every day or all of a sudden posting every now and then, and while there is no rule about doing things specifically, if you want to have a steady pace, build expectation and interest from a reader, then you'll need to construct a way to leave your readers with wanting to read more, but at the same time giving them the space to breath from your series. I also see a lot of them not understanding or not caring enough to see what kind of formula works better on the platforms that they post.

A lot of people also have the terrible bad habit of being... capricious, that they want their story to be LIKE THIS, I WANT IT TO BE THIS WAY! I DONT' WANT TO SEEK ALTERNATIVES! Like, if you assume writing is easy, a lower skill, then... shouldn't be easy for you to write a novel instead of a comic? But everyone wants everything the easy way, they want fame now, they want followers now, they want their story to be a comic, they want people to have the same level of interest and compromise as if we are them.

Or you can always try to date a writer/artist and try to pay them with food, love, being pampered and watching series together, like @Kuma and I do

imagen.png640x640 275 KB

Kuma
Sep '22

As a fellow writer I feel like you had a bad day, you're taking one down, writing a salty post just to turn it around.

Collaborations, as the name indicate, need to be a two way street. If you're the doormat then you need to push your ideas more and if you are the one pressing your ideas without hearing your collaborator you should really start to listen.

I think you had one or two bad experiences and began generalizing everything.

Stargazer31
Sep '22

What's the point of using AI to make a comic? The creativity process is all part of the fun

Freemints30
Sep '22
1

Cus most collabs are not collabs. They are request for an art slave to draw or write how they want with little input. And expectations of high quality with little cash.

Also I would say avoid using AI for art
Ignore the tech bros. They tried to force nft's art thefts on people a few months ago
The copywriter legality is dicey at best. And the webtoons with that style barely have subs from what I've seen.

Honestly might as well say get AI to write your story. Pretty low tier.

Best free collabs I've seen between irl friends or spouses or people who pay others and seem proffesional

Spectorium_1
Sep '22
3
spiderbrahdfo13

Wow, dang. I mean, it's a stretch to say that most don't work out. By saying that, you're assuming that at least 51% of the ones posted here are duds, which might be the case since most of us are broke. Money is a big motivator in most cases.

While I agree with your point about teaching ourselves how to draw. However, it is extremely hard, and not everyone has the talent or money to make their own art or use AI art. Take it from the guy who's been kicking the wall for the past month, learning how to draw.

Old drawing:

Screenshot_20220927-094205-003.png701x760 711 KB

New one:

IMG_20220926_184034441.jpg2598x1958 914 KB

However, I don't think that we should throw away Collabs and rely on ourselves. The ecosystem might be trash, but writers might also be the ones making it like that. I think that we might be going about Collabs the wrong way.

Essentially, most of us value our work highly. I agree with that, most of us have our own stories, and it's like a kid to us. However, we have to realize that others feel the same about their own works.

If you are a writer, but you don't have any money and want your work made into a comic, there are many ways that it could happen. However, posting a Collab that essentially says "my work is great, feel honored to draw it" then no work is put into it and it has a small amount of subs or following is not a way.

There are 3 clear ways and a fourth maybe.

The best way to get an investment is to have a clear plan. Write a summary, the plots, the arcs, the different characters, the setting and explain every aspect of your story. Also, sketch out your scenes and make a draft of your comic so that artists need to do the minimum amount of work, cause if you love your work that much, you should put into the effort.

And for the point that people always love to bring up about their work being stolen: It doesn't matter if you think that someone's gonna steal it, cause, for the same reasons artist won't draw your work, your work is more likely to succeed than get stolen, as nothing is proven, and thieves don't steal gems that look like rocks on the outside.

However, by posting your full work, you open up so many opportunities, and the benefit outweighs the cost by far.

1) you seem more professional and dedicated to your work
2) you're more likely to get artists interested in your work as they know every aspect of your story and only have to put in the minimal effort to just draw out your plans
3) you could get a sponsor who's interested and gives you support
4) people love quick wins

Essentially, love your work to death

NickRowler
Sep '22

Years ago I dealt with a frustrating collab, so I can understand being upset if something didn’t work out for you. But there are many situations where they do work.

Like others said AI is not the answer. AI art is built on copying other people’s art, it is not public domain or fair use. There is also very little control over what the program will spit out unless you are feeding in your own references images. If you just want generic images with no narrative connection to each other, then pay for some stock photos.

TroyVSTheWorld
Sep '22

Play Dark Souls so you can get rekt again and again and again until you git gud

MickC
Sep '22

For the AI thing, it won't work at all especially for making comics

I remember that one post on Twitter about a comic made by AI where people have to break down how a comic should have been written/formatted. AI may have inconsistencies on making a comic and it might possible that the comic might look blurry like the Dalle thing.

officialgenesis
Sep '22

Teaching ourselves how to draw? Um...some of us simply don't have the talent, not even with stick figures :smile:

I get where you are coming from. That is why it is important to select wisely in the collaboration process and lay out expectations as early as possible. Give creative room and flexibility for everyone involved in the collab even if you're paying them. Be open for inputs and suggestions.
Sometimes life just happens and we grow out of feeling as passionate about a project as we did in the beginning and that is okay.

If paying an artist long term is too much, try smaller projects with a limited budget.

I've had successful collaborations on here and do not agree with your statement that collabs should be avoided. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Freemints30
Sep '22
1

Looking through your post history.. @spiderbrahdfo13

Alot of the collabs you seem to try get into are the most shadiest set of people I ve seen.

Lots of "want a free writer" and then they proceed to argue they will pay with profit when asked about payment. which is... a red flag.

Even has people in those thread warning others to stay away in the posts immediately after the initial asking

No proffessional would make that kind of thread. Asking for 100 episodes for free from strangers at high quality. No mature person would ask these things of people.

I'm saying sorry but... if many have warned a thread and its filled with that many red flags. Low chances are already shown it's not gonna work out

EncryptedWriting
Sep '22

The last paragraph is on point. This entire comment.

I am in no way going to attach the author of this thread, but you said it yourself. I remember they have often complained about collaboration threads and how it hasn't worked for them. They have deleted a lot of their posting history from the looks of it.

Kuma
Sep '22

I'm doing that, but to make better storyboard to collaborate with artists.

Freemints30
Sep '22

Yes so is google images. I wouldn't reccomend people take images and art off there with no editing and try to profit off it.

It's a tool for references and skilled photonashing. Not to make commercial art to sell as your own

Freemints30
Sep '22
EncryptedWriting

Oh... then that explains every thing. I dont look at collab threads much unless they are asking for payment or more a community project.

But if this isnt the first time they complained and they kept involving themselves in that many obviously shady collabs and ignore people who warn and them then.. yikes..