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Jun 2021

I am new to the world of commissioned art. A girl contacted me asking me to do a piece for her. Not a problem, I send her my rates. Instead of approving the rates, so I could get started - she tries to "lure" me into doing coverart work for another series by saying she was co-writing the series with an erotica writer with a "big following". The whole thing made me a laugh. I didn't end up accepting the job but she was trying to win me over with "exposure" for future jobs. I'd read about things like this happening but first time it happened to me.

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    Jun '21
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    Jun '21
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Exposure don't pay the bills, lady. You were smart to move on. I don't even take commissions anymore unless it's either someone I know well, or I get at least half of my rate up front.

I built a deposit into my rate for that reason exactly. When she "placed her order", she didn't even ask about rates or anything. If I wasn't an honest person, I could have created a terrible picture and charged her an arm and a leg.

Don't work for exposure, and don't even work for low rates, either.

In the past, I was contacted by a company looking for work for hire writing, as if they really wanted my work specifically, but as I got into it, it suddenly switched and turned into an audition where I had to develop my own story from the ground up. And then, of course, when I already put weeks of pre-work just so they'd give me the contract, they offered 2 cents per word I lost it. They gave that "but it's exposure" line, like somehow that will make it worth it to get paid slave wages for hundreds of hours of work and not even keep any rights.

Exposure sure is important when you are breaking in, and I'm all willing to get paid lower amounts in order to show off my work to more people. But not THAT low. And certainly not for free.

The people who want you to do it 'for exposure' usually don't even have the capability to provide 'good exposure' to begin with. Either they don't have the following/engagement they claim they do, or their following is a demographic that probably wouldn't be interested in following you anyways.

Exposure is like the cherry on top of the sundae. If it happens on top of getting paid for your work (and isn't a factor during the negotiation), that's great... but I don't know anybody who buys a sundae just for the cherry.

You are right. Exposure is important. There were a lot of other reasons that I didn't want to work with this woman but had she been honest with me about her budget situation, I would have adjusted my rates. She ended up going with a college kid who was willing to do it for $20 instead of the $80 or so I would have charged. $20 for 5-10 minutes worth of work isn't bad.

I guess she figured that with our "perceived" friendship and the exposure for more work it would compensate for less than my full pay.

Freelance photographer here, and this happens constantly. As @Scarlet_Cryptid said, exposure doesn’t pay your bills, and you were absolutely right to turn that person down. People don’t understand how much time, effort, and money artists of any kind put into their craft and will stoop to the slimiest methods to try and get good work for crap rates. It may seem counterproductive to say no to someone offering you an opportunity but trust me, people will 1000000% take advantage of that mentality

Good point! I think exposure is great but it shouldn't be a bargaining chip for commissioned art.

@Toastbuster You're right. Exposure doesn't pay the bills. My cover art is a side gig for now but if I'm taking time out of my day to hand-drawn a Christmas ornament, for example, to fit the design and color-scheme you want for a cover - I want to be paid for my time!!! If the "big" author is so established, why wouldn't they have already have an artist on hand to do the cover work?

@joannekwan That sounds terrible.

I’ve also come to learn that people who aren’t willing to pay for quality work are also extremely unpleasant to work with, so you probably did yourself more favors than you realize by refusing lol

If Disney or Pixar or someone with multi-millions of followers asked, that might be worth thinking over, if you can be sure you get the advertising such platforms are capable of giving.

If Disney or Pixar pulled this on me I would refuse in a heartbeat. You KNOW they can afford to pay for it so if they wanted free work from me I’d feel flat out disrespected :joy:

That is entirely true! They WOULD offer to pay, I'm sure. Their lawyers probably insist on it. But if an exposure offer came from someplace THAT big for some weirdo reason, I'd look into it further, because they CAN give you exposure you couldn't even buy.

The only type of exposure they provide is "This artist does stuff for free!" Not something anyone in their right mind would want.

I think that's what I said.

Payment, however, doesn't always have to be cash. E.g., putting my name on movie credits might be worth more to me than cash at some point. Nevertheless, my point was that, in my opinion, if the source has big clout, don't just knee-jerk & say "no". Find out more about what they're offering.

nobody reads the credits......:sweat_smile:

Being in the credits is a common practice for everyone involved in the project....and that is not the payment, just basic decency.....

Any self respecting artist will walk away if "exposure" is the only promise a company(big or small) has.......

If a firm contacted you to make some type of deal, you need money. Artists have lost the rights to their characters that they've slaved away on because they thought they were going to get more jobs and money.

The only time I'd agree that "exposure" is beneficial would be if the company found my art and reshared it because they thought it looked cool.

Never work for exposure. I teach videogame scriptwriting and one of my first lessons to my students is "Never work for free"

I'm sorry to come down on this here, but this thread keeps popping up as like one of the first threads I see in the Tapas forums. And seeing "give a big firm a second look for exposure" is just making me lose my mind. I am sorry if everything I say comes across as harsh, but like I get the feeling that you think you know more about how the animation/art industry works than you do.

A huge studio should absolutely pay their artists in money. Disney makes millions in revenue. Everything you make while working at Disney, Disney technically owns, even if it's something you create in your own time. My teacher used to work for Pixar (which Disney owns) and he said that people would wait until their contracts expired before even thinking about trying to publish or advertise their own projects (that they wanted to sell). On top of that art is a valuable skill. If you are making art as a professional, working for free just isn't an option. It's exploitative. There's a reason why in Canada unpaid internships were made illegal and other countries are looking at making that policy standard. Someone shouldn't spend years or decades, potentially thousands of dollars going to art school only to be "paid" in a movie credit. That doesn't keep your lights on, or let you buy food.

Do you know how much time, effort and knowledge goes into it? Would you ask a doctor who just got out of med school to preform surgery for free?? I don't think so.

Not only that in the US there is the strong animation union which helps protect workers to prevent people from being exploited like this. Art, video games and animation might be a "dream" job for some people but at the end of the day, it's still a job. This view is toxic, unless you are an absolute hobbyist doing things for fun and don't care about making art your livelihood. The only reason I'm not doing animation work right now is because I have made the choice not to because I enjoy teaching kids art, and don't want to have to suffer through crunch.

My friends who I graduated animation school with who are currently working in the industry and have worked on big titles like Rick and Morty and the new Carmen Sandiego reboot work their behinds off. They deserve every cent of what they're being paid, especially considering how in Canada we have only just gotten an animation union to help fight back against exploitation. Until 2019, Canadian animators weren't allowed to be paid over-time because of a loop-hole in the high-tech sector laws.

Our teachers preached at us "never work for free"! It's not worth it! Your time is honestly better spent improving your skills and working on projects that motivate you and inspire you. You're more likely to make portfolio work that way.

Only time exposure is good is in the beginning and there are other good reasons to do it. Example I did some writing for free because one book (that I only had to write a page of) the profits went to a children's hospital and another (that I wrote 2 short stories for less than 5000 words) all profits went to plant a billion trees. When I was starting my comic I offered pay and a cut if I started making money. Then middle of project they upped rates and then ghosted after I paid for new pages, so I had to find a new artist. I offered new artist pay again at their rates and offered to pay their friend who colors. Ended up being more affordable, gave them credit, and pay them every two weeks (upfront before artwork) for two more pages as life allows (didn't this week for the next two pages because car broke down and having baby this coming week, but will resume next check). I have even paid for edits on script. PAY PEOPLE! THEY'RE WORTH IT!

I have previously said herein that such businesses ought to pay BUT....

IF a major studio, etc., offered a non-cash opportunity to work with them,....
AND I STIPULATE SUCH IS UNLIKELY TO OCCUR....
it seems unwise to get huffy about what they can afford and how you're insulted, etc., etc., and instead ask them what it is they offer and why it is being done so and whether you can dicker with them. It may be unusual, maybe even unique, whatever it is they're doing.

That's all I have to say on this. It seems to me to be a reasonable position to investigate all opportunities, but instead I seem to have triggered folks... so I'm leaving this particular thread. No hate, no resentment, or anything of the like... I'm just done.
"I've said my piece, now I leave it all up to you" (Moody Blues)

Wanna know my opinion?......artists are profesionals that deserve a salary and payment.

Promising exposure as payment is misleading because a person can't guarantee what their viewers will do.

No matter how big you are, you can't control viewers to make them check out someone. I graduated from advertising, so i know there are no such guarantees.......

You didn't trigger anyone.
We have all been trying to explain why a big studio should pay people with money and not exposure, back rubs, dogs, potato chips, etc, and why doing otherwise is kind of unethical. As I said earlier, they make millions and millions of dollars.

You're also reaching a lot. I never said anyone should respond to let's say "Disney emailed me for speculative work/work for exposure" with being insulted and huffy. I explained why the practice isn't right. You should of course respond with a "Thank you for considering me! However I have to respectfully decline!" Or something along those lines.

Anyway! Have a good one!

Yeah these happen a bunch. Often from people with smaller twitter accounts than I have, haha. (and my account is smallllll)

i dunno if anybody’s said this already but also working for exposure doesn’t even necessarily always work. Nobody can guarantee how much follow-through another person’s audience might have.

For example, when I worked drawing comics for a relatively large news site (we were also getting paid month to month so it wasn’t purely an exposure gig) every week my stuff went up I would gain a hundred or so followers, a friend of mine who had the same gig would only gain a handful of extra followers a week if even that, and then there was one dude who made thousands of followers every week and is extremely well known now. Having a lot of eyes on your work allows for the potential to grow but is IN NO WAY a guarantee of growth.

Besides, if they have an audience worth being exposed to then they will almost definitely have money to work with you.

You can always reply to exposure messages with “I’m sorry but I do not work for exposure. However, these are my rates! [enter rates here]” And if you’re flexible tell them you’re flexible and are willing to work with them on a price you can both agree on. And if they say no then move on.

hello there! I may be a writer and my comments may have nothing to do directly with the concept of commissions but I'd like to emphasize this:

Deals like this involve long-term collaboration. Did she even draw out a contract for this? Just from the word "future", I'm already certain that working with someone as inconsiderate as her means both the commissioner and the artist won't get along in the foreseeable future unless she's kind enough to release an honest statement of apology which most likely isn't gonna happen. Did she?

Nope. The closest thing to a contract was my TOS that I was waiting for her to say that she agree (something in writing is better than nothing) Instead of agreeing or stating her concerns - she starts talking about her plans for future series and a lot of speculation. The more I read, the more it read like she assumed I would take the future job because of its potential.

wow! that's something i won't do as a novice comic script-er as well even though i haven't asked for commissions [or long-term ones] yet. she should be providing considerable options and specific timelines for this.

you're really not getting anywhere but circles in that deal :grin:. by the way, what's TOS? is it a jargon in art commissions?

TOS means terms of service. I sent her what I would and wouldn't do. But she thought that since we were "friends", I was basically agreeing to be her graphic designer for all these projects she had in the works.

:+1: Got it. Thanks for the answer and I do hope you find a better or satisfying client to work with!

I have opened my commissions since 16th may this year, and have yet to get a buyer. But i'd rather wait for 50 years than to work for low wages. sigh