Hard Work is a myth

[SleepingPoppy]

I'm probably gonna get shxt for this and i don't really care but i think we gotta fix our mindset on "hard work" being the be all, end all method to success

I think you set it up like you were being more controversial than you really are. Because you're not actually saying hardwork is a joke, you're just saying it matters how you attribute that effort. Which is completely true.

And I would still agree that working hard is just a slice of the puzzle regardless, because depending upon what area of art you're in, there are many factors at play. How we attribute that effort is just the thing most within our control.

Also I'm aware this is probably all over the place but I genuinely wish we could better phrase the advice we give especially when sometimes what is thought to be good advice really isn't.

My only addition is just that context matters. Depending upon the conversation and relationship, its not always relevant to explain the nuance behind a piece of common advice like "work hard". Unless you're actually telling someone to go at it like they're running into a brick wall. But having conversations about those nuances is a helpful way to get that info out there, so people have the chance to think about their process, so it's still good.

(also references are the best and a I love how much smoother they make the process of soooo much art)

[DiegoPalacios]

Working hard is useless if you don't work smart. Some of the tasks are more important for success, so focussing of things with low impact is often a waste of time.

If people ask between working hard and working smart my answer is:

[HGohwell]

I have always hate the response "well just try harder" because if you haven't worked yourself to death, you haven't tried hard enough. You've got to give everything your literal all or you've not tried hard enough, and if you're still not where you want to be, you clearly didn't try hard enough. Sure.

Things like luck, platform, timing of release, trends, audience, luck, style, luck and LUCK all come into these things as well as hard work. Most things. Art, comics, novels, sports, life, jobs, everything. The idea that "just work hard" is the way to get through anything always seems so reductive and so insulting, actually. Like the idea of someone asking for advice and getting "just work hard" as a response is sorta like saying "idk how hard you are working now, but it's not enough" even though that's (probably) never the conscious meaning.

[DiegoPalacios]

"Work hard" is way too vague.....work hard in what?
character design?, world building?. marketing?, etc.....

even the points i already mention have many variables.

[thecrystalrook]

You're not wrong, comrade. Some of the hardest working people have very little to show for it while those who don't work so hard have quuuuuiiite a bit.

[EncryptedWriting]

I think you're definitely onto something. Honestly, a hard work ethic is a great thing, but knowing how you allocate that work ethic and doing so in a way that isn't demoralizing nor over-tiring is key.

[VibrantFox]

work hard in what?

I would say in all areas. obviously there's some nuance to specific areas of work or life or in even more specific areas of art writing and so on but again i think there's more to it than just "hard work"

as i'd mentioned there's very specific elements that play into individual success beyond the amount or time, effort or labor put into a thing but i don't want to tread too far into what some of those are as topics containing those subjects don't do well here

[But_a_Jape]

I think the reason why "work hard" is such a common piece of advice is because it's really the only actionable piece of advice you can give. It's true that most, if not all, success is ultimately more attributable to luck than effort, but you can't do anything with that. People ask, "How do I be successful?" seeking some sort of miracle answer that they can actually implement in their life, but there is none. Even successful people don't have the answer to this, because no one can comprehend the full scope of their life, decisions, and circumstances to really identify, "This is how I got where I am today."

But no one wants to hear that when they ask how to succeed, they want to be told what to do. You can't do "Be lucky." You can't do "Come from a wealthy and supportive home environment." But you can do "Work harder." It's less a formula for success and more of a coping mechanism for maintaining the illusion of control in one's life.

And "work smarter, not harder" isn't necessarily actionable advice either - it's tantamount to saying "Come up with a good idea." Well, if you were able to do that, you probably would have already, wouldn't you? Hell, maybe you already have but you just haven't seen the fruits of your idea take shape to prove you did, in fact, know what you were doing.

The way I see it, success in a field like art is essentially the same as winning the jackpot. Odds are slim and there's no such thing as a tried and true strategy, but your odds are reduced to zero if you don't play at all. So continuing to work is the same as continuing to play. And your ability to continue working is the same as still having enough money to make bets.

[jmhenry]

Kinda hard to disagree with the 'overwork is bad' message, we all agree there, don't burn yourselves out for your dreams. I think the problem most of us are having though is we're conflating the message of "success takes hard work" with "work yourself to death for no reward". We can mind our health and go at things at our page and also realize that some of the goals we set for ourselves in life require more than just our bare minimum to achieve. Hard work, in my opinion, is going jus a level or two beyond your minimum effort. If the thing your trying to achieve is something you absolutely care about, you're probably working at that level without thinking about it anyway

[HGohwell]

Tbh I wouldn't call "work harder" any more actionable than "work smarter". Say I'm already working all the hours I have spare, I'm putting hours into improving and lessons and still nothing seems to change in my popularity or readership or whatever my art goal is? Is "work harder" actually something I can do compared to more practical advice like "have you considered using X shortcut to make it easier on yourself so you have more time to look at marketing"? I don't think anyone would disagree that effort is important to an extent, but the idea of something as generic and vague as "work harder" isn't really an answer you can act on either and can easily become toxic.

I mean, saying all this, it's pretty obvious the problem is less the actual advice and more the plastering of generic and vague phrases and ideas and quotes as the ideal solution to individual situations without taking said situations into account but that's probably an entirely different discussion on the one-size fits all attitude people have to advice and progress.

[rajillustration]

I mean there comes a point where you have to get paid. Thing about webcomics is it's a huge investment of time and recourses--so like...yeah you work hard but there will come a point where you have to stop if the compensation never arrives. And this is true of any entrepreneurial venture. And it doesn't mean that you "didn't work hard enough" if you decide to step away and focus on things that can give you more compensation and appreciation without destroying your hands in the process.

Like when I sold handmade there were a lot of artisans who could make immaculate jewelry, but they took so long to make and they were so difficult to source their recourses, it could not maintain a business. Instead, it was those who were able to simplify their creations and their process while still making beautiful things who were able to thrive. You have to do the math to see what's sustainable in the long term. And that's different for every person and each unique comic.

[MissFester]

I agree for the most part.
I think a good way to sum it up is "hard work doesn't guarantee success."

[But_a_Jape]

I wasn't trying to suggest "work harder" was actually good advice, just trying to explain why it's so commonly given. And in regards to how "work harder" is more actionable than "work smarter," I meant that more in terms of how people could probably think of far more ways they can "do more work" than "do smarter work" - regardless of whether or not those actions actually produce results.

And as far as what the "obvious problem" is, I don't actually think it is people giving broad advice to individual situations, because the context in which I hear these sorts of discussions never seem to stem from a creator saying "Here are my life circumstances and this is the problem I need solving. With this context in mind, how can I address this issue?" The inciting question always boils down to "I'm not successful. How do I be successful?" and such a general question can only ever be given general answers.

If there is an "obvious problem," in my view it's that people are trying to find an answer to a question no one has ever actually solved: "How do I guarantee success?"

[jermajay]

I don't see why you would have to stop if you aren't paid? It's just a hobby, like anything else. Hell, it's a pretty cheap hobby if you actually think about it. Most sportspeople spend a lot more money and time on their hobbies, for a much lower chance of compensation.

[rajillustration]

@jermajay Depends on if it's a hobby comic or not, which depends on the person. That and like...art is really hard, we're offering comics for free. That can get really draining after a while if no one is looking.

And like I'm assuming that this thread is about the pursuit of comics as a career or a stepping stone towards other art careers.

[HGohwell]

And in regards to how "work harder" is more actionable than "work smarter," I meant that more in terms of how people could probably think of far more ways they can "do more work" than "do smarter work" - regardless of whether or not those actions actually produce results.

Ah ok, that makes more sense, sorry for misunderstanding that. Yeah, it's a lot easier for people to think they can just work an extra hour or even skip a meal to work harder rather than finding smarter solutions.

don't actually think it is people giving broad advice to individual situations, because the context in which I hear these sorts of discussions never seem to stem from a creator saying "Here are my life circumstances and this is the problem I need solving. With this context in mind, how can I address this issue?"

You're right, yeah, situations like this are pretty rare. Shame really, I think people would probably get better answers if they did give more detail on the particular areas they're struggling with.

If there is an "obvious problem," in my view it's that people are trying to find an answer to a question no one has ever actually solved: "How do I guarantee success?"

Quite honestly, I think the only answer to this should probably be a blunt "you can't and if you're asking that you're in the wrong game" but I can see where you're point earlier about no one really wanting to say those things and would rather be positive comes in. I suppose when people reply hard work to that they probably generally mean "be prepared for years of work without any major returns". Although people coming in with those expectations is probably also a discussion from another place so I'll leave that there.

[GesuGesu]

Not so much in a literal sense but more in that it does not matter how much effort you put into something because in many cases the amount of effort your put into something will not matter.

It really depends on what you're putting effort into, so don't worry about being controversial. I think everything has a case by case basis.

Yes I absolutely managed to gain a little something but the reality was I was wearing myself out for next to nothing. Which is my whole point.

Do you not enjoy what you do? I am able to work hard for next to nothing because creating things is my passion, and getting noticed, successful, improvement, and payment is just a bonus if it happens. I really hope that you have a strong enough passion to do what you love no matter what struggles come with it. This is why I feel that your passion should not become your career or job, because once money or success becomes a factor, it reduces your love for the craft or even makes you grow to hate it over time.

Don't take yourself too seriously, so you can continue to enjoy making what you do.

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

You shouldn't have to kill yourself with overwork just to succeed.

Seems to me the meaning & amount of truth to that depends greatly on what an individual see as "success". It's not the same for everyone. Not by a long shot. That's one of the problems with collectivist ideologies, they seem to assume all people find happiness or contentment with the same things.

I also think means "hard work" means different things to different people. And similarly, whether the "hard work" was worth the reward or the chance of the reward. When if comes to human beings there's a looooot of variables.

[Llyrel]

So like yeah you can put effort into things (you wanna paint the mona lisa go ahead) but that's not the issue the thing is that you've gotta pay attention to where and how you put effort into things.

^ This so much. Another similar (and equally harmful) kind of advice I often seen thrown around is "if your comic isn't doing well enough on Tapas/Webtoon, then it probably means that you have to work harder to improve it/chase the current trend/put in colors/change or simplify your style/whatever", when truth is... maybe the problem has nothing to do with the quality of the work itself and everything to do with the fact that neither platform is actually "right" for you? Let's be honest, both Tapas and Webtoon have a clear preference towards some very specific styles/genres.
Anyone who doesn't fit in is hardly going to get a recommendation on the homepage of these sites, no matter how good or professional their work is. I've seen plenty of amazingly done webcomics with downright professional artwork and storytelling getting little to no attention here. Yet you constantly see people saying that "if they aren't making it big, perhaps they should work harder". Hell, no. Just because your comic isn't doing well on two (2) online platforms that have a tendency to promote a very specific kind of subgenre, it doesn't mean that your work is objectively bad or that it can't achieve success elsewhere.

Does it suck that the two major webcomic platforms won't give a crap about your work? Yes, it does. Does it suck to pour your soul into something and see it getting zero attention because it doesn't fit what's "popular"? YES, IT DOES. But does it mean that you should suffer through burnout to "improve your work" to chase something that may never happen (e.g. a homepage feature) or give up on everything you love to chase the "current popular style", hoping that will let you achieve success? NOPE.

Start branching out, try different platforms, build connections elsewhere, join collectives, heck, make your own website if you can afford to. Hone your skills and work on improving them, because yes, there's ALWAYS room for improvement, but for the love of everything that's holy, stop promoting the idea that "not making it big" on this or that platform means that you're not "working hard enough". Because another key part of success is "being in the right place at the right time"... and if you keep wasting all your time and energy on the wrong target/audience, it won't matter how "hard" you work: you will always feel out of place.

tl;dr: hard work is just one of the steps to achieve success. Being in the right place at the right time, knowing your audience, finding your niche, building connections and yes, LUCK (plenty of luck, tbh), are also important. So don't just waste your energy trying to chase an audience you can't have and focus on finding a place/working method/audience that works for YOU.

[VibrantFox]