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DokiDokiTsuna
Dec '18

Legitimate question!
A recent experience has shown me that people around here take writing pretty seriously...that isn't a bad thing at all, but they certainly make it seem more difficult than I ever would have thought.

Personally, I think writing is easy, especially when it's not really in-depth (writing a basic plot, or just backstories). I can do that kind of stuff in my sleep. And when I can't, usually 10-20 minutes of concentration will help me come up with something good.
The very idea of having one writer per character in ANY medium seems ridiculous to me. Unless each of those characters is getting their own full-length movie, I think it's a waste of resources. I mean, no one ever truly writes only ONE character; humans don't live in isolation. So writing multiple characters is simply a matter of expanding the lives of the 'background' characters. That's how I think of it.

And yet, when I made a topic asking how fast people write; the VAST majority of people on this forum could write my socks off. So which is it? Is it hard or is it easy??

Is it simply a matter of iteration? Like, do people usually write and RE-write so many times that although they can write 30k words a day they end up working on the same one chapter for weeks? I re-write a lot, too, though...
Or is it density? Do I somehow pack more information into my paltry paragraphs than people do in pages? (Say that 3x fast~) That sounds unlikely, though...

This is making my brain hurt...there must be a logical explanation. How can I be the slowest writer in the room but still find writing easier than anyone else...?

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Wumbl
Dec '18

Actually I don't know if you're ever partaken in roleplay writing but that's a medium where every character is written by one person - the idea is to establish a rough outline for the scene and then take it in turns to write your characters' parts. The main appeal of roleplay writing is in the exchange - the roleplayers themselves are having most of the entertainment value out of it. I used to do roleplay writing occasionally to help flesh out characters before injecting them into a story.

To answer your question about how fast people write: People find it easy to write WORDS but they find the world-building part difficult... ironing out all the details of their fictional setting. Some writers use fantasy, sci-fi or supernatural elements which makes this really difficult. Obviously a slice-of-life or realistic action story is going to be much easier to build a world for because the real world already exists.
Also yeah, the parts where you have to edit and redraft are pretty hard too...

You find writing easy because from what you've said it's very easy to map out your main plot points. Maybe your current works of fiction aren't set in a particularly complex universe, or has less sub-plots and twists than some stories do. My story has 2 sub-plots on top of the main mystery plot, and a supernatural lore. That means I have to do tonnes of world-building and it takes much longer to map out my plots. When your plot revolves around a mystery it is real hard to write.

It depends on what you're writing, whether or not it's gonna be easy. If you find what you're writing easy maybe it's because A. it's a less complex/intense work to what others are making or B. you're writing a genre you're used to and comfortable with...

I don't know what you are writing about obviously so I wouldn't know which it is.

SleepingPoppy
Dec '18

How hard is it to draw? It varies from person to person, and is subjective.

Maybe you come up with really good concepts quickly, but someone else is better at crafting sentences and twice as fast at it. Maybe they're better at crafing sentences but it takes them twice as long. Maybe someone writers really good free fiction online, but under proffessional scrutiny doesn't measure up.

It just depends on a ton of stuff. There's no direct correlation you can draw.

I was lurking the other thread, however, I'd I have no idea if the "hiring a single writer per character" is a thing. I've never heard of it, but eh, who knows. That doesn't mean writing is easy. Especially at a professional level.

AllynCrowe
Dec '18

To add to @wumblebumarts 's points: putting words on paper is easy. You can write and copy and draft 2000-3000 words an hour if you want.
But I can draw stick figures too. Eloquently putting words on paper for prose, dialogue, descriptions and thoughts is a far harder task than simply getting ideas out.

For me personally I don't find writing a hard activity, what was the most difficult for me was to get a writer's mind. To be able to put down 1000 words straight onto paper that are immediately captivating and eloquent.
That is an entirely different endeavour than simply writing, something I had to practise for a decade and am still improving on.

I think it is entirely believable that large projects have one writer per character, especially games or movies - who then team up for dialogue and worldbuilding, and brainstorm.
To summarize: the hard part of writing is not the amount of words you put down, the difficult part is to understand how to make words into art.

shazzbaa
Dec '18

I mean, it doesn't have to be a binary.

Some writing is complex and some is simple. Some people are gonna be quicker in one subject than another. Some people are very skilled and write a lot but also recognise the amount of complexity and challenge in what they're doing.

Like, writing isn't all about putting out a lot of words very quickly, and difficulty isn't all about struggling to think of the next word and moving slowly.

I'm with wumble, I'd see different writers for different characters less as a Necessity To Cover Part Of The Writing Duties and more as Something You Do Because It's Fun To Write Together. Some folks enjoy having someone else to bounce off of and inject a different voice into their stories -- that's not a necessary part of the process but if it's fun to work that way for you, cool!

"Is it easy or is it hard?" Well, is drawing easy or is it hard? One person over here is saying they spend 3 hours on each page, and that guy over there is saying he spends over 10 hours on each page! This person is putting out 5 pages a week but says drawing is really hard! How can he be so fast but also find it challenging? WHICH IS IT!!! The truth is that it's different for different people, different styles and subjects and complexities are different, and different people move at different speeds and create for different reasons, so it'd be nearly impossible to answer definitively.

I think writing as a whole is complex and has a lot to it. It can be very challenging! I don't think I would say that writing, as a whole, is inherently easy, though there are parts of it that aren't hard, so it would be entirely possible to write something easily.

AllynCrowe
Dec '18

@DokiDokiTsuna

Forgive me if this comes over as harsh, but I believe you may be talking about the game thread where the person asked for 20-25 characters to be written right?
My honest advice as someone who actually has a decent grasp of writing on that scale (I like to think I have at least) is to please not bother with that job. It's an absolutely ridiculous amount of work you're getting yourself in. Especially as an amateur - and no self respecting professional writer would take it for what little compensation they may be offering.

If you like worldbuilding, make your own private novel or book, and go ask for feedback and reviews. You'll find yourself improve way more, than being taken advantage of by some pompous programmer.

spicy_sweets
Dec '18

I'm not gonna word vomit and just say I agree with what's been said so far.

Curious tho, who's writing 30k words in a day? The most I've written is 6k-7k. At that point I'd be worried about their hands. :joy:

And you mentioned a writer for every character?? That's not how novels work, at least not for me. I make my characters and decide how they intereact with each other and the world on my own, through many methods.

AllynCrowe
Dec '18

Most I manage is 5k on a really good day, can't imagine anyone pumping out 30k that isn't straight up word vomit. At that point you can't even think your words, you're brain-spewing them.

DiegoPalacios
Dec '18

Anyone can tell a story, but it requires skill to be a master storyteller.

Of course this skill can be trained just like drawing.

Both can be done by anyone, but the proccess of mastery, that takes work and discipline.

Rasp
Dec '18

You want it done right or you want it done fast? generally speaking these are your choices. You're going to be investing time somewhere... building the world considering the story-lines and characters - even if you're not actively writing passively using time to think about your story and map things out can help. There is some merit to the seat of your pants approach but it typically hampers your ability to tie things together and increases the likely hood you'll create continuity gaffs of plot holes. depends on the type of story you're writing too. if its something close to a gag a day or an anthology it doesn't need the same level of polish.

Hell in comics are often about economy of language - how efficiently can you convey the emotion or idea in as few words as possible.

DokiDokiTsuna
Dec '18
Wumbl

As for B, I never really write the same sort of thing twice...that's why I'm always writing so many things. I dabble in fantasy, sci-fi, psychological thriller, and everything in between, but also in different forms. For example, I'm working on three fantasy stories atm, but one is high fantasy, one is urban fantasy, and the other is fantasy wrapped up in detective noir. So you could call them the same genre, but at the same time they're really not.

As for A, I don't know. I think my stories are fairly complex compared to others I've read. I'm not so ignorant that I'd pump out 'The Cat in the Hat' and wonder why the people who write 'The Once and Future King' are having such a hard time...

I get that, certainly. But what bugs me is that I seem to be at the opposite extreme in both groups. It doesn't make any sense to me...

Um, I thank you for your concern, I guess. But I dunno...it really doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. Especially now that I've talked to the guy: it just sounds like something fun to do in my spare time, not like a huge project that will drain my brain and leave me with nothing. The fact that most people in the thread saw it as the latter and I see it as the former is why I made this topic. I'm trying to figure out what they're seeing that I'm not.

Rhonder
Dec '18

I find it quite difficult... but that's speaking as someone who hasn't practiced much since highschool like... years ago now. For me, the hard part is in the planning and making sure everything is thought through enough and cohesive. I often stop short of that point before moving forward and my stories noticeably suffer as a result :sweat_smile: That's a skill I'm definitely working towards developing better!

SleepingPoppy
Dec '18
DokiDokiTsuna

Personally the reason I side eye that project is less because of the role of the writer than what OP claims they'll do. I don't know their experience, ability, or the scope of the project, but as someone that worked on an indie game, I'll just say it sounds like the kind of thing that will never get finished. One-man-teams make sense for small projects. However it sounded from that thread like you were just in it for fun, in which case, there isn't any real harm. And it's possible that person knows what they're doing and has a realistic timeline.

punkarsenic
Dec '18
Wumbl

i dunno, a lot of the time i find the hammering out actions and details difficult but easier than the putting the words themselves together - on the flipside, i think the writing words part gets easier the more planning you do, making the planning bit the harder bit overall. so i spose its the pantsing vs planning dichtomy?

its 'something good' that is subjective here. when people get really serious and ambitious with their writing, perfectionism can set in, and a desire to plan more intensively to make things that are tighter, more engaging, and more original. there are oscar award winning films that can have major and wholly valid writing criticisms thrown at them - on one hand, this shows that something can be good writing and flawed, but it also shows beginning writers (as basically all writers on here are) that there is a lot more to writing than meets the eye.

like, theres a lot. and what you describe - basic plot and backstories - all these writers can do in their sleep. but once ive dreamt up my basic plot and character, i then need to hammer out the concrete plot, the metaphor and motif, the setup and payoff, the interlocking motives, the pacing, the scene by scene - therell be things that dont work, unexpected things you add and beloved things you drop, after workshopping the idea, its not what you expected to be writing. its better. and that is through work.

not everything is written this way, no, every writer also has their flashes of wild inspiration where they get cracking and poop out smth gold, but even those rare things are polished and edited. and theyre usually, like, short.

im not sure what this is referring to? i havent come across anything written like this except - as @wumblebumarts mentioned - role playing games. and admittedly the collaborative writing techniques of rpg are really cool

its hard, but those people are hard workers. its also very rewarding, which ties into why ppl put so much work into it.

because writing is a leisurely activity you can take slowly, making it lower pressure than someone setting themselves strict deadlines, which makes it more enjoyable. smth that you enjoy doesnt feel like work.

personally, writing is a mix of struggle and leisure. the first plot generation can be manic and exciting, the editing into smth cohesive can be gruelling. the thumbnailing and scripting can be painfully hard, but the results are euphoric. theres an awful lot to consider in writing, its a very intricate art - but i like writing, things like pacing and foreshadowing make my brain tick, so it feels less like work, and more like play. but it is hard.

ISNEKO
Dec '18

Writing isn't hard. Storytelling is hard.

GOOD storytelling is even harder.

And writing speed is meaningless.

Penni
Dec '18

I don't think the speed at which someone writes is an indicator of how hard it is to do. People have different styles and methods that they use to write, some people are more experienced, and some people are just fast. As @ISNEKO said telling a story is hard. There is a lot that goes into it, and that can be difficult to master, especially since that story is likely to change from one draft to the next.

I personally can't write anything unless I have a clear picture in my head of the scene I want to write and then are times where I can get caught up in structuring a sentence just write to express what I want properly. Even simple stories have their complexities because they are simple, and sometimes the simplest things can be the hardest. For something the hardest part is the time and dedication, you have to put into and not necessarily putting words on a page. It takes a lot of mental focus to do it.

DokiDokiTsuna
Dec '18

Maybe I'm missing a definition here...when I ask about how "hard" it is to write, I mean, basically, how much stress do you perceive in the work?

If you ask two authors how they feel when they write books, and one goes "Oh, it's hell; I have to work hard just to keep the motivation going" and the other goes "It's always a challenge, but I really enjoy it and I can hardly make myself stop", I would assume that Author #2 doesn't find writing quite as difficult as Author #1 does. How do you argue that it's just as hard for both of them...?

I don't understand...how is speed unrelated to difficulty? I mean, if someone can regularly pump out 500 more words in an hour than I can, you'd have to agree that they at least don't find it as hard to choose their words (me, I'm always running back and forth from Thesaurus.com~). Unless they make up for that initial speed with additional revisions, as I already stated (or preliminary work), it really looks like they've got it easier.

If someone can draw fast, you could say it's not hard for them. If someone can sew fast, you could say it's not hard for them. But if someone can write fast, it could still be hard for them? How?? I really need that explained...

Penni
Dec '18

Based on your example, it looks to me like there are other factors playing into why author #1 is struggling, cause it doesn't seem like their heart is as into it as author #2. Like I said, experience can play a lot into speed and how challenged that person may feel. What makes writing hard can vary from person to person, but I think it's safe to say the the mechanics (putting words on a page) is relatively easy.

Speed doesn't always equal quality, but again that doesn't apply to everyone. Is someone is faster at sewing or drawing, then maybe they are more experienced, maybe their work isn't as detailed or complex. Even if they are fast, maybe it is hard for them to do and the quality suffers because of it. Maybe they are placing too much focus on speed. It all depends on the person. That's what I mean by speed isn't a sole indicator of difficulty (and I realize I should have specifically said "solely" so my apologies on that). There a lot of variables that go into writing that makes it challenging and complex.

minerrale
Dec '18
DokiDokiTsuna

In your example, it's hard for the first writer because they apparently don't really want to write, so the difficulty is doing something you don't want to do or enjoy doing. The second one sees it as a challenge, yes he is enjoying it, but that doesn't mean it's easy! What it really means is "it's friggin hard, there are a lot of obstacles to overcome, but the process is enjoyable and the end result makes all this suffering worth it".
It IS hard, for all of us. Does that mean we don't like it? No, that means, we put a great deal of effort into it.
I can write around 600 words in 25 minutes, does that make me good? No. That makes me fast. That means I've spent a decade just studying the language, reading hundreds of books and analyzing them to understand how writing works.
But finding the proper words is still hard, shaping the sentences in a way that makes tem enjoyable to read is still hard, conveying my meaning and my metaphors without losing my reader is still hard.
Anyone can put a few sentences down and say they wrote a story.
Not anyone can call themselves a writer.

punkarsenic
Dec '18
DokiDokiTsuna

why should you?

they have unique experiences. chances are their own mental health comes into play; ppl w depression, adhd, smth else that causes executive dysfunction, might love writing as much as NTs but still struggle to get anything done. and besides that, writers block is a bitch

or they work longer hours, are more experienced in making their writing technique efficient, have a robust production schedule, etc...

also, a lot of the hard shit abt writing is actually the pre-writing. plotting, concept generation. as @wumblebumarts said, the actual writing is the fastest part - its like inking a drawing youve spent hours thumbnailing and sketching. comparatively, the inking is fast as fuck. i can draw 8 pages in two days, but those pages might take me a whole week or more to script and thumbnail

though i agree with you, someone who writes the final product faster is having an easier time with prose and word use. but mainly its good scheduling and long hours (and luck)

anyway, seriously, i thiiiink i get where the misconception lies? i think its in ur phrasing 'hard for them.' if someone is fast at writing, its likely that theyre good at it. but their skill doesnt negate how difficult the task is. maybe this is all a phrasing issue??