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Dec 2018

Writing isn't hard. Storytelling is hard.

GOOD storytelling is even harder.

And writing speed is meaningless.

I don't think the speed at which someone writes is an indicator of how hard it is to do. People have different styles and methods that they use to write, some people are more experienced, and some people are just fast. As @ISNEKO said telling a story is hard. There is a lot that goes into it, and that can be difficult to master, especially since that story is likely to change from one draft to the next.

I personally can't write anything unless I have a clear picture in my head of the scene I want to write and then are times where I can get caught up in structuring a sentence just write to express what I want properly. Even simple stories have their complexities because they are simple, and sometimes the simplest things can be the hardest. For something the hardest part is the time and dedication, you have to put into and not necessarily putting words on a page. It takes a lot of mental focus to do it.

Maybe I'm missing a definition here...when I ask about how "hard" it is to write, I mean, basically, how much stress do you perceive in the work?

If you ask two authors how they feel when they write books, and one goes "Oh, it's hell; I have to work hard just to keep the motivation going" and the other goes "It's always a challenge, but I really enjoy it and I can hardly make myself stop", I would assume that Author #2 doesn't find writing quite as difficult as Author #1 does. How do you argue that it's just as hard for both of them...?

I don't understand...how is speed unrelated to difficulty? I mean, if someone can regularly pump out 500 more words in an hour than I can, you'd have to agree that they at least don't find it as hard to choose their words (me, I'm always running back and forth from Thesaurus.com~). Unless they make up for that initial speed with additional revisions, as I already stated (or preliminary work), it really looks like they've got it easier.

If someone can draw fast, you could say it's not hard for them. If someone can sew fast, you could say it's not hard for them. But if someone can write fast, it could still be hard for them? How?? I really need that explained...

Based on your example, it looks to me like there are other factors playing into why author #1 is struggling, cause it doesn't seem like their heart is as into it as author #2. Like I said, experience can play a lot into speed and how challenged that person may feel. What makes writing hard can vary from person to person, but I think it's safe to say the the mechanics (putting words on a page) is relatively easy.

Speed doesn't always equal quality, but again that doesn't apply to everyone. Is someone is faster at sewing or drawing, then maybe they are more experienced, maybe their work isn't as detailed or complex. Even if they are fast, maybe it is hard for them to do and the quality suffers because of it. Maybe they are placing too much focus on speed. It all depends on the person. That's what I mean by speed isn't a sole indicator of difficulty (and I realize I should have specifically said "solely" so my apologies on that). There a lot of variables that go into writing that makes it challenging and complex.

In your example, it's hard for the first writer because they apparently don't really want to write, so the difficulty is doing something you don't want to do or enjoy doing. The second one sees it as a challenge, yes he is enjoying it, but that doesn't mean it's easy! What it really means is "it's friggin hard, there are a lot of obstacles to overcome, but the process is enjoyable and the end result makes all this suffering worth it".
It IS hard, for all of us. Does that mean we don't like it? No, that means, we put a great deal of effort into it.
I can write around 600 words in 25 minutes, does that make me good? No. That makes me fast. That means I've spent a decade just studying the language, reading hundreds of books and analyzing them to understand how writing works.
But finding the proper words is still hard, shaping the sentences in a way that makes tem enjoyable to read is still hard, conveying my meaning and my metaphors without losing my reader is still hard.
Anyone can put a few sentences down and say they wrote a story.
Not anyone can call themselves a writer.

why should you?

they have unique experiences. chances are their own mental health comes into play; ppl w depression, adhd, smth else that causes executive dysfunction, might love writing as much as NTs but still struggle to get anything done. and besides that, writers block is a bitch

or they work longer hours, are more experienced in making their writing technique efficient, have a robust production schedule, etc...

also, a lot of the hard shit abt writing is actually the pre-writing. plotting, concept generation. as @wumblebumarts said, the actual writing is the fastest part - its like inking a drawing youve spent hours thumbnailing and sketching. comparatively, the inking is fast as fuck. i can draw 8 pages in two days, but those pages might take me a whole week or more to script and thumbnail

though i agree with you, someone who writes the final product faster is having an easier time with prose and word use. but mainly its good scheduling and long hours (and luck)

anyway, seriously, i thiiiink i get where the misconception lies? i think its in ur phrasing 'hard for them.' if someone is fast at writing, its likely that theyre good at it. but their skill doesnt negate how difficult the task is. maybe this is all a phrasing issue??

For me it really depends on my mood and the environment I'm in . Like most activities in life, it's a lot easier to get something done if I'm left alone and can focus on the activity on hand. I can't write most times because I'm watching my toddler, or my husband is watching tv in the background, or my head is filled with other concerns at the moment of things that need my attention.

And even if I'm given a moment of quiet by myself and my head is clear and I'm in the zone, I'm still only going to write the way I write. I'm no Proust, or Shelley, etc. I can't and probably never will be able to write like them. I'm simply writing stories I find enjoyable, but the language itself is not necessarily poetic, advanced, or beautifully crafted at every sentence...

TBH my standards for good writing are pretty high and I don't think the majority of modern day works I've read be it online, or a published book even meets those standards... For example I loved Harry potter, and I enjoyed the story and world building and did love the books, but the writing itself is really bad.

...Yeah, I know that...I hope people don't think THAT'S what I'm asking about. I have my slow moments from time to time, but I'm not that much of an idiot...

Yeah, I know that, too...it was just one example.

I don't know how you can assume that...just because you find something difficult and frustrating doesn't mean you don't want to do it. I could list a million examples, but I don't think I should have to...

Not for me. 6_6

Are...you trying to convince me that writing can be hard? Because I already acknowledge that...it's kind of why I asked "how hard is it to write" in the first place. '~'

I don't think anyone should; I was asking that as a challenge to everyone who's saying "well writing is hard for everyone", when I'm convinced that writing must be easier for some than for others.

Okay. But it is possible to find a "difficult" task easy, isn't it? My mother considers updating software drivers "difficult", but I can do it in 2 seconds.
If there's a phrasing issue here, I think it's that people are conflating difficulty with intricacy, and conversely, ease with simplicity. That would explain why so many people are talking about "good" writing and work ethic differences when I wasn't asking about those.

Difficulty is all relative, and a lot of it is in the mind. There is no objectively difficult task; rather, there are tasks that some people find difficult and others do not. Which is why I said, "when I ask about how "hard" it is to write, I mean, basically, how much stress do you perceive in the work?" PERCEPTION.

Basically, I'm confused as to how other people PERCEIVE writing as a difficult task when all the physical signs point to ease (for example, speed). It sounds like a question that would have a legitimate answer: for example, maybe they just don't like to write. That could answer the question. Although I don't think that's the answer that the majority of writers here would identify with...^^;

The perception may come from the mental aspects of it, such as world building and descriptions, that sort of thing and not the actual physical act of writing. Maybe it comes from the pressure people but on themselves to achieve a high goal or they compare themselves to other people's work. Some people are easily distracted. Perceptions can come in a ton of different forms.

For some it could be language barrier if they are trying to write in a language that is not native to them.

This is more of what you are looking for?

I'd try to answer this, but I'm not sure I know to do so without derailing from the type of answer you're looking for?? I think a big issue here is the combination of not being clear with what answer you want, and not phrasing the question correctly. It's too simply worded and open-ended to answer, like "how hard is it to write?" could mean a number of things alone without the context you're trying to give people to properly answer it the way you want it answered.

First things first, what do you define as writing? People are going off on the different parts of writing, such as plotting, dialogue, world-building, the word usage, there's too many aspects of it to just generalize it for a question when you're looking for something specific.

Secondly, hard is a subjective word, and the range of difficulty varies from person to person. But hell, the word difficulty can be based on different things as well, like all the different sections I mentioned earlier, these are things people can have an easy or hard time with, whatever that means here. Do you mean to ask how long the process takes as a result of personal nitpicking and editing, or lack of creativity to come up with something, or time span of which you do all these things.. again, this is so open to a number of answers.

Side note that relates to what I'm saying about you leaving questions open-ended, the author 1 and 2 example you gave. If you don't give enough context, people are gonna fill in the blanks with what they think you're trying to get at, dude.

You keep saying that you don't get how we're seeing, then let's try this instead for a second, how would you answer this question and how would you interpret the author example had it came from someone else? And to make things easier on everyone else here, what would you define as easy in this scenario? Would you consider writing the way that you do it as a hobby, a passion, or a job? I'm hoping the answers to these will help us all see where your head's at with all this so we can answer the original question and any tangents on the subject better.

Here's my take on it:

Writing is easy. Good writing is hard.

Anyone can sit down and come up with a plot, characters, and write a hundred pages about it, but the difference is in how much energy and passion the writer focuses on the work. I used to think that writing was easy, and that was because ideas came to me naturally, but like when a person starts drawing, they're always going to improve. There is always room for growth! I've been dreaming about writing my whole life, actually writing for seventeen years, and seriously writing for the last five.

Hell, I look back on things I wrote barely a year ago, and they're just bad, bad, bad.

General rule of thumb: any book that was ever enjoyed had to be conceived, written, looked over, edited, perfected. Then the length cut in half and the process repeated.

There are many little nuances that go into writing, like styles of point of view, tense, if the author switches between characters or not, foreshadowing, symbolism, long nights staring at thesauruses, agonizing over if the alliteration should be put in or avoided, making sure you don't use the same word twice in the same paragraph, running out of words and thinking of a completely new way to describe the color of your characters eyes besides the word "blue", etc, etc, etc.

If you care about what you're writing, then writing is never easy.

Mental aspects aside, it takes quite a toll, physically, as well! As a writer, myself, I probably sit at a desk and work for about five hours a day. My back hurts from not sitting in my chair properly, my neck hurts from looking between the keyboard and the monitor, I live a sedentary lifestyle because of my passion and have to make time to move around lest I risk blood clots.

As for hiring different people to write different characters! It's only a waste of resources if the writer is bad lmao

For example, I'm writing a fanfic with my friend at the moment, and while we are writing it word by word and line by line together, when it comes to the interactions of the characters, my personal writing style better fits the voice of one character, and my friend's is suited to the other. Together it makes for a more organic, authentic experience.

ALSO speed NEVER equals quality!

You can be speedy and write well, but it is r a r e

But that's my opinion!

For me, writing in the my native language is easy - at least, if talking about short stories. I'm just putting story which is already in my head, into words, and it subjectively feels as something natural, because the process of thinking itself uses speech. So, if I'm feeling enough inspiration, I usually easily catch the flow when doing it, and feel not much tension. Writing in english, of course, requires more effort (and gives much more mistakes as well :sweat_smile: ).
But what is really hard is to write a good story. Too bad I don't know anything about how to write stories which will please not only me, but the readers too :sweat_smile:
Long stories are more hard for me than short ones, as well.

Writing is hard or to put it clearly....good writing is hard.
I'm a fast typer, I learned when I wanted to be a scribe. I write in all aspects of my life from my novel/script for a comic, at work or at uni. I guess my point is: the speed in which words are put down does nothing to show "good" writing or a "good" writer it's the quality of the words and what they tell.
I also have physical problems with my wrists so typing fast for long periods of time or just typing in general causes pain-- that also needs to be taken into consideration and it makes it difficult to write.
Putting down ideas, simple plots, outlines can be quick and easy for some-- but to turn that into a readable story, with good grammar, no plot holes, flowing dialogue, no excessive use of description or too little of it...that's hard.
I find writing a challenge buts it's an enjoyable experience.....and it's hard
Just bc I love something doesn't make it easy, it makes it worth it and that's the feeling I get.

I just addressed the question with my own opinion and experiences. I hope I answered it :sweat_smile:

There is no such thing as good writing. It doesn't exist. There is only good rewriting. Iteration makes writing good. Nothing that comes straight out of your head is actually good quality.

I'm being hyperbolic, but the sentiment is true.

I already explained where my head was at (and someone did give a satisfactory answer after that, so I assume it was sufficient). I'll repeat it, though:

I'm pretty sure that spells it all out. But if it doesn't, you can always ask me what the hell I'm talking about.

I hope people aren't getting frustrated with me...by no means do I expect people to be able to understand me perfectly all the time. But I get frustrated when they, if they don't know what I mean, fill in the blanks themselves with assumptions that I then have to go back and take apart. And THEN I have to try and figure out what went wrong and re-explain myself in a later reply...which no one reads. ._.

If I really am THAT confusing, I really wish people would just tell me to begin with.

By the way, I don't think of the title of the topic as THE question to be answered, at least not always. I use titles as hooks, simply to draw people into the topic with a short description. I usually write the title before I even fully develop my point, so they're often a bit off the mark.
All that is to say: If you walk into a topic, read the title, and begin composing an answer immediately without even glancing at the original post itself, I'd say the problem isn't mine, it's yours. =/ The title is just a title, I'd give much more weight to the 3+ paragraphs that people usually write to explain what their point actually is.

To me it seems more that you keep making open ended discussion topics on a forum, expecting people to answer your open question the way you want in the way you perceive it, and getting upset/defensive when people decide to interpret the question how they want and have an actual open discussion about the topic. You then harp on specifics that you feel they misinterpreted... meanwhile you have misleading titles, and are not clear from the start what you really want from your posts.

I LITERALLY JUST explained that my titles are not supposed to be representative of the main point. I have the right to do that, don't I? I named a recent topic "Just Too Chill, Apparently", which isn't even a sentence, and no one complained about THAT being unclear.
Probably because they actually read the original post, and figured out what I meant that way.

Okay. But in that case, why not just ask me what I meant?? I'm not trying to confuse people on purpose, so if I'm being unclear I probably just don't realize it.

There's the rub: I'm not actually doing that. Most of my recent topics have been specific questions intended to resolve my specific confusions. There's a reason my original posts go into so much detail explaining what I've seen and why I don't understand it. If I just wanted people to generally discuss how hard writing is, I would've said something like:

"Personally, I've always thought writing was pretty easy. How hard do you think it is to write?"

Bang. Boom. Shazam. You see the difference between that and what I actually did?

Now, if you think a forum is simply NOT the place for asking specific questions and seeking specific answers (I don't see how you could...), then just say so, and I'll consider...not doing this anymore. But following me around reminding me that "this was supposed to be an open discussion" when it really wasn't is not helpful.

It's kind of ironic...whenever I started discussions just asking people to share their experiences, everyone started trying to help me and I had to explain that it wasn't necessary. And now that I start discussions actually seeking answers and explanations, everyone starts sharing their experiences and I have to explain that they aren't helping. I just can't win...maybe I should consider writing disclaimers?

I adore writing and I take it very seriously, but it will always be a hobby and a form of catharsis for me rather than something I try to do as a living because it's just simply not viable to rely on a career as uncertain as creative writing. But, since I don't do it for a living, I think that's the biggest thing that factors into it being easy and fun for me. I think that, for people who do it for a living, it is probably FAR more stressful.

I write pretty slow, I think, even though I do write every day. I think the reason why I write pretty slow is that I really try my best to be descriptive and artistic when I write--even though I'm not all that good at it. Another thing about writing is the misconception that writing long-form stories like novels is really easy. It isn't. It is far more stressful and at times frustrating than writing a little short story. I actually really needed a break from writing my novel so last night I had a blast switching over to writing a short story about an android and a Preacher and I think I wrote like 1000 words in two hours! Not bad <3 I do usually do a lot of editing as I go, too, which probably is what takes the most time and effort when writing.

My advice to new writers is always to at least try and start out writing short stories because they really are a blast and a ton of fun to write and they really do help you develop your craft. Getting words on a page is easy, making them pretty words is difficult. This is why, once again, short stories are so much easier to write than novels. Because they're shorter, it is a lot easier to be more artful with them.

But really, I think how hard writing is varies from person-to-person. One of my sisters literally described it as agony as she looks at a blank word page and ponders what to write while sweating buckets haha. Meanwhile for me, it is literally one of my coping skills.

Which is exactly why I called them misleading...