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Mar 2017

Hi folks! The first question is a bit self explanatory, but I wanted to elaborate on the second. Are there any books, websites, etc. that you refer to? Do you have practice sessions? Are there art/writing groups you're part of?

I'll start: I think I'm more than decent in the art department, but I think my writing could use improvement. A book that I've been reading re: writing is called Wired for Story, and I think it has some pretty good insights on how you can hook readers into your story (though this isn't entirely useful to the type of comics I do for Draw Write Play8). I do want to do long form fiction, though, someday, so it's still a good read.

For art, even though I do feel like I do okay, I'm always trying to improve my skills. I'm part of an all-girl art group called Tequila Tea Party and we get together every now and then on something we'd like to call "art dates". We also give each other critque and feedback and we're trying to set up some art challenges that we can do in the future, to push us out of our comfort zones.

How about you guys and gals? What are you doing to actively improve your work?

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    Mar '17
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There are 52 replies with an estimated read time of 12 minutes.

Art wise. I'm redrawing the older chapters of my comic Life of an Aspie and adding color to them in addition to match up with the look of the current chapter.

Writing wise, my biggest challenge tbh has been figuring out where all the pieces for my story following the next chapter, chapter 6, fit. For example, minor characters have been given bigger roles. Certain characters have gotten more screen time to allow their storylines to flow that much better. And most of all, figuring out how to balance out Susan's Asperger's with her more normal-ish traits. I want her especially to be the most "organic" character in LoaA.

Raymond Chandler said the best way to be unproductive is to join a writing group, or words to that effect. That I've found to be true. Writing has never been a social experience for me, so I don't see the value in joining a group that's dedicated to writing. The most social it ever is for me is when I piss someone off and then make them read my stuff. Yes, I do it on purpose.

I'm still not comfortable with my abilities in either writing or art. I never have been. But then, if you aren't striving you're dying. It's a natural law: whatever doesn't change or grow dies. If it isn't actively working against entropy, it falls apart.

For me, I'm still stretching in my art, and trying new things. I don't have any confidence in my abilities inside that skillset. I need to actively distract myself so I don't edit my scribbles to death. I have tens of how to books on art. They mostly stay on the shelf. I spend most of my research and improvement time reading other works. Maybe I picked this up from writing, I don't know, but it works for me. Finding new material that I like and actively integrating it into what I'm doing is my approach. It probably isn't as fast, but it is organic. It makes me feel connected to what I'm doing rather than an objective observer of improvement or regression.

It would probably be a much faster progression if I had a skills development and competency approach as a well thought out course might present it. But I wouldn't like it. I'd find it stifling, and I know it. And at the end I'd expect a return on investment. For me, I'm afraid it would make art transactional, which is the last thing I want. I want it to exist outside monetary expectation as so much of my life is consumed by the tyranny of exchange.

I'm sorry this wasn't more helpful to you.

I don't have personal experience in writing groups, myself, but I get what you mean.

I find it sometimes helps me to leave old/done work as is, so I have a better sense of how my work has improved. Part of me wants to redraw/color old strips for consistency but the time it'd take me to do so will cut into time I could spend writing and drawing new stuff.

Why do you hate your art though? I know we can be our own worst critics, so maybe you can pinpoint what exactly you hate about it that you think can be improved.

Art-wise I draw every single day, I'm lucky to be able to be a freelance artist since it gives a huge motivation to be constantly improving. A good way that I tend to practice is doing sketches every day in permanent mediums (like pen). I find it forces you to work on your muscle memory since it is permanent, just got to remember to keep it loose and just have fun with it!
If I feel like I'm getting lazy with drawing from my mind then I will brush up by doing a ton of anatomy studies - gotta sharpen up the mind sometimes XD

Scripts I tend to leave over time, if it sound dumb after a few days then I will alter it. I will also change things even up to the moment I'm drawing up the pages if I happen to think of something interesting as I work.
I also ask a few friends to proof read my scripts, see what they think and adjust accordingly.

Since I'm basically an infant when it comes to the world of digital art, I certainly have a lot of room and desire to improve. That being said, I am actually completely satisfied with my art, and instead of wanting to change what I already can do, I want to learn even more styles and techniques so that I can create anything ever! I tend to learn best from watching videos, so Youtube is a place where I can lean a lot, notably from channels like Draw with Jazza (which I highly recommend).
As far as writing goes, I certainly don't consider myself a writer. Let's just leave it at that.

I am aware that I am not the best at either, but I am satisfied with my capabilities since I face a lot of limitations, with both writing and drawing. I am not very good with English as it's not may parent's first language, as well and have dyslexia (this is NOT a self diagnosis) , while for drawing I've been losing my ability to do so as my physical disabilities grow worse.

But I'm still satisfied with the work that I am still able to do despite these things. (though more with my writing than my drawing)

It's not that I'm not looking to improve or don't think I need to improve, I draw and release comic pages everyday and improvement is naturally happening in them, I just don't hold it as big priority that NEEDS to be done. My concern is more being able to KEEP drawing instead of making it look nicer, as my arthritis and lupus have been slowly making it more difficult or taking away my abilities to do so. So my drawing just being simple, practical and clear with what's happening in the panels is good enough for me.

That's perfectly valid. We do our best with what we have, and it's prefectly fine to be satisfied with one's work. I wish you the best and hope that you'll be able to continue.

Tequila Tea Party sounds awesome!

My partner and I have both been working on our art skills since November '16. We draw analog for at least one hour per day (it was 2-3 before we started doing digital as well) using online reference sites like:

www.quickposes.com
http://reference.sketchdaily.net
http://www.senshistock.com/sketch/#

We also watch youtube tutorials from amazing teachers like Proko, Drawing with Jazza, Javi Can Draw, Danica Sills, Lavendertowne, Ahmed Aldoori, and so many more.

Also watching interviews with artists and animators like HuHa! Heroes of Animation with Bing for inspiration keeps us motivated.

Thanks for the recommendation! I will definitely check it out. I personally would like to do video tutorials too, someday, but I don't know when I'm going to be able to find the time to do the necessary research and preparations.

I use those sites too! I need to do more analog work myself. I love digital mediums, but it's still very different when you're drawing on real paper with real pencils :smiley: great recommendations, I shall check them out :slight_smile:

I'm proud of what I do, and am most days able to recognise that hey, I'm pretty good at this stuff! without it feeling like I'm bragging or being arrogant. I do, however, realise I still have tons to learn, and definitely have weak spots in my art skills. The same goes for writing skills.

As for improvement.... I wish I had more time to do it, but I practise! I set myself challenges, and try to complete them. I do lifedrawing when I can, and use reference photos for complicated stuff. I try to analyze images, pick them apart and figure out why they work - or why they won't.

Of course, doing a long form comic also means I have to figure this stuff out on a regular basis. I set this chapter in a bamboo forest - time to figure out how bamboo forests look! And this chapter is set in a city full of festival crowds - better sort out how to draw crowd-scenes!

It's the same with writing. I read a lot. I reads tons of comics, tons of books, articles, heck, even poetry - and I try to figure out why the stuff I enjoy works, and why the stuff I don't enjoy falls flat. Once I've figured out what makes other people's stories tick, I try to apply that to my own work. And practise a lot. Writing an ongoing long form comic teaches me one set of skills, while writing a shorter oneshot teaches me another, and so on.

i think im always a bit dissatisfied with my art and writing. art especially. im constantly changing and improving, and cant catch some mistakes until i dont look at it for weeks - which leads to struggling to reread my comic without picking it apart.

currently im just improving by looking at cinematography and comic composition from examples, and studying people. writing wise its hard to tell how im improving (it falls mostly into panel placing; im pretty pleased with the writing itself i guess)

but my future lecturer on comics did recommend me some books im gonna get:
- scott mccloud: understanding comics
- ditto, making comics
- ditto, reinventing comics
- will eisner, comics & sequential art
- ditto, graphic storytelling & visual narrative

I am one of those people who is never satisfied with anything I do but I'm slowly trying to improve both my skills and my self-esteem. I tend to only look at all the things I could do better, which is great for improving but not good for self-confidence.

Unfortunately I don't have the time and energy to work on my drawing and writing skills as much as I'd like at the moment but just doing my comic does help. I get to draw things I don't normally draw and thus push my limits to learn new things. I often intentionally try to include things that are difficult for me, so that I am forced to go outside my comfort zone. It's there that I learn the most and also get to feel somewhat accomplished.

However I try my best to learn not just by doing but also by observing. I look at the world around and study the colours and the way light works. I love walking because that's when I can study my environment slowly and maybe see things in a new light. When I watch movies I look at all the visual elements that tell the story, the composition and the camera angles and all that. Same goes for all other media I consume. I enjoy it but I also try to learn from it.

I also have trouble with confidence and self-esteem on the regular. I find that it helps to talk to like-minded people and having a support group, but also staying healthy in general helps a big deal. I don't know how many artists make it a point to exercise regularly and eat good, healthy food.

Good question!

I go through stages with my art, sometimes I'm satisfied with it and others I'm not. If I am dissatisfied though I tend to look back at older work to see how far I've come and try to identify why at that moment I'm not happy with it.

I've noticed that I make a bit of progression over time with just the sheer volume of comic work I'm doing. But I tend to try and work on what I see are my weakest areas- for example at the moment it's environment work, I don't feel I put enough effort in so I've started focusing on that. I also think my basics are starting to slip a bit so I intend on doing a couple anatomy studies a day next week as warmups just as refresher. Just little things like that every now and again seem to help me and if I'm really stuck I tend to resort to watching other artists work- youtube is a godsend sometimes XD.

As for writing I don't focus on it probably as much as I should and as such feel a bit more shaky about it it. Though I did a ton of research when I was actively writing my scripts. I am currently trying to work on my dialogue as I think it's a bit flat sometimes. Reading comics and novels always helps improve but I find TV, games and films to be an good source of inspiration and help too. I tend to pick apart any of these things and think about what they did right and what I liked and then what I thought didn't work and what could've been done to fix it.

I agree that having support is such a great help. Even small words of encouragement or having a chat with a friend can do wonders for self-esteem. Healthy lifestyle does help, too. Especially since artists have to sit down a lot, so exercise can not only boost energy levels but also prevent problems like back pains.

I feel a little lucky that I live with an editor, so I have someone I can bounce my writing off of before anything is published. I think that writing is a little trickier to see real progress in, because it's also a matter of hit or miss with the audience. Another question I wanted to ask that I didn't get to include because I asked two already was "what is more important in your comic for you? Art or story/writing?" Probably good for another topic, but it's somewhat related to this thread in a sense that people are likely to try to actively improve in the area they feel is more important to the work.

Ah that is most definitely helpful!

I would agree, though I can look back on older scripts and pick up on things that I think were bad, who's to say someone else wouldn't have liked the scene? It feels almost like writing is more subjective than the art style to me, though in true both are probably equal in that respect.

It's another good question and would be an interesting topic :). Ironically I'm more willing to overlook the artwork if I think the story is good which is almost the opposite of where my focus is. Though perhaps it's because my script is pretty much set in stone now so I have more time to dedicate to my artwork.

Writing is... I don't know. I can write papers on Japanese economy or politics, no problem (well, relatively), but when it comes to writing stories I don't have much experience tbh. My script is reworked every other week when I get a new idea on how to improve it, and only recently have I begun to feel that I'm getting closer to the "heart" of the story. My approach might be a bit too stilted and close to writing papers though haha xD

As for art, I sometimes have a thing I'm okay with, but it's pretty rare that I feel that something's good. I always see tons of stuff that could be better, and when I actually am satisfied with something, I have that little voice telling me "it's no different from everything else you make... you just can't see the mistakes right now. But everyone else can."

I wish that voice would shut up.

As for improvement, I'm enrolled in Schoolism online classes, which I definitely can recommend.

To improve on my art I largely analyse the artists I love and try to understand the patterns in their work. Like sometimes my faces seem a bit off, or my colours seem flat, or my levels aren't so great, but by seriously analysing photographs/people/artistic renderings I learn to recognise where I'm coming up short and make an effort to change. I also keep a pile of inspirational material by my laptop and flick through it every now and then when my panels seem mundane or repetitive. It'seasy to fall into the habit of using the same headshots or angles in a long form comic but simply being aware of that is half the problem already dealt with. I know I have a lot of weaknesses and limitations but I'm so thrilled with how far I've come since I began this whole thing that I know those problems are small potatoes. One day they won't be limitations any more, just got to keep practising.

For writing I try to read, though not to too much because I know I'm very suseptible to embodying the latest thing I've played/read/watched and injecting it into the comic by accident. I've avoided playing the Witcher and watching certain films for this reason. I know I'd be waaay too into them.

I do improv writing where I can, roleplaying where I can, and generally do a lot of research day to day. I use dice to mix things up as well. It can be fun to throw a Hail Mary plot changer and see how things play out from there.

Dialogue is improved by playing it in loops in my head for days on end-- not sure I'm actively doing that though! It's quite passive. I just edit things as need be. Active listening is a huge thing for me too. Like actually playing close attention to the way people talk to each other. You can learn a lot about personalities and attitudes just by observing them in action. Work is a great place to do this. Try looking at your colleagues like characters and defining their quirks.

That's all I got, though. I know there's a lot more I can do but there just isn't enough time!

I hate that voice! I think that's a voice every artist has, really.

Oh, and Schoolism rocks!

Schoolism is great! I've learned so much there, right now I'm in composition class. I only miss getting feedback, but don't feel like paying for those classes... They're a tad expensive xD

Yeah! The costs we pay for self improvement! Hahaha, but seriously though, a good way to get good feedback on your work is by joining art groups if you have any in your local area. I don't know much about online groups, you have to get a group of people you trust and won't get butthurt at comments.

I'm not satisfied with mine. I want it to look better just not sure what direction to take. There are so many things and no time to really hard core work on them for me.

I have always been pretty confident in my writing. I also have a friend who I call my "concept teammate" because she asks tons of questions about my story that I never would have thought of and has added a depth to my story just by having conversations about it.
My art is alright. I stopped drawing a ton since my freshman year of college so my skills have dwindled. I don't have a specific style so from panel to panel my style changes - my characters don't have consistent proportions either. I am working on it though. I figured that it would be best to get my webcomic posted story wise and maybe one day I'll go back and re-draw panels or whole pages if I'm not happy with them. I use a lot of pinterest pages for pose references and my concept teammate friend is always sending me video tutorials about animation, and concept art.

Well, my comic strip is patterned after the ones in newspapers, so what I do most of all is read the funny pages every day. I've picked up many different ideas by studying line art, and hope to be that good one day. Secondly, I draw comic strips nonstop. As I once read, it's hard to get worse at something you do everyday! :smiley:

I'm personally ok with it, but it doesn't mean I think my work is perfect. I'm always trying to improve how my work looks. I mean I look back on my older strips all the time and compare it to my new work all the time to remind myself I am slowly improving. I want to improve my comics look for the sake of my readers and future readers, and until I feel especially confident I can't get to work on my other project ideas. This month ironically is a month of me making remakes of my first comics which I include my new ones compared to my old ones.

I'm never fully satisfied with my art or writing. But I always try to stay positive with my improvements through each piece of art or script I complete. I'm always trying to improve and I spend time everyday practicing, especially with the art side. Even if its just for 5 minutes I make sure to sketch something little everyday. I find it good practice to observe surrondings on a daily basis too. Focus on the lighting where ever I am and how its effecting objects and people within the room, different architecture and textures too.
I don't believe there is a way to become 'perfect' with art, but that helps me stay on the positive note that even if I'm not fully satisfied with my art, I am getting better and will continue to approve with time :smile:

How satisfied are you with your art/writing?

But seriously, I think I've improved more at writing than at art. (Except when it comes to literal writing, like a novel. I found out I'm apparently very n00b at that. XD) Though even when it comes to writing I vary on how well I do.

Looking back at my early chapters of Daniel, I suppose my art's gotten better, little by little, but I do wish I had more time to really buckle down and improve on certain things, like anatomy, perspective, coloring/shading and just overall design for random pictures. I just do my best to experiment and improve on things I'm bad at as I go along.

Writing I have a ton of confidence in. I've done a lot of writing in my life (more scientific than creative), however, that's only because I have never decided to actually put my creative writing to good use. I only wish that my artistic skill could even be half as good as my writing is (though obviously that's not perfect either).

Having never drawn before at the age of 34, I've really struggled to start. I have purchased a couple of books by Christopher Hart. Those have helped to try and grasp some of the fundamentals. I also subscribed to a course on Udemy to help learn the fundamentals. YouTube has been helpful to a certain degree. Having gone through this thread however I've found quite a few new things to help me on my quest to improve my artwork. Thank you all for sharing, and if there are any other beginners out there I'd recommend the Christopher Hart books.

I tend to procrastinate because I'm lazy and depressed. When I finally drag myself into a drawing or writing session I always feel fulfilled by the writing and disappointed with the drawing. I think it's because drawing is visual so it's a lot easier to see the flaws in a drawing than a piece of writing. I also set my expectations too high.

I find my comic bland colouring wise. Facial expression I also make too mild and when I try to make them more exaggerated it'll look like uncanny valley. I also find my character designs quite eh. They all have almost exactly the same shape. I think I'm though okay with my lineart and lettering at the moment. But having to write my comic in English makes me quite sad because Finnish is the original language of my comic. Nobody would read it if I made it in Finnish though so it is what it is.

I'm okay with my stuff in most zones...I guess I would like my lines to be a little more steady, ink wise. I want my colors to be better; I guess that's why sometimes I go nutso about trying to get better at coloring.

Writing wise, I think I do okay. I try to keep all the bases covered on my plots, so that way I can tell a more complete story.

The only way I get better at [digital] inking is to keep putting in the work...as for coloring, I'm gonna have to find some sort of color/theory & digital painting/coloring class to take to help execute better and get the color scenes that I want.

Well now with a full time job that is art, that's where all my time goes and some of my learning. I took cartooning classes in highschool and took art in college along with storytelling classes which counts. Sometimes I draw from life or practice or experiment. Mostly I don't have time or not in the mood. My practice comes from my work alone mostly. The only time I would really be willing to practice my art is on the train ride home but I know everyone's gonna be gawking at me.

I am fairly competent in my writing skills, my art skills are fairly professional though I have to be in the right mood and mindest to draw or it's just garbage doodles. When I'm given a motivation to do something then I want to do it, especially something like having a job or project from an outside source, it makes me pressured to put out good work and concentrate. Personal work is just a mess in quality.

I have yet to reach the skill of being able to draw a masterpiece despite having a high fever, mad and vomiting. That is when true skill has been reached.