How to hate your ideas?

[Darth_Biomech]

In a lot of articles and tutorials about writing and content making there's this prevailing notion that your first ideas and drafts are never good and you should "kill your darlings" whenever possible.

However. How do you, uh, do that? I've always heard people saying that they have restructured and rebuilt their projects basically from the ground up and it now doesn't even resemble their initial concept. While for me in roughly 7 out of 10 cases the precise opposite thing happens: the longer I'm trying to think about what to change or if the idea is worth keeping, the more indoctrinated I become into it, the more rational and good it sounds, and less attractive the possible alternatives become. No matter what I do, I always time and time again return to the starting point of "well, no, I still like that first idea\concept more".

Some of my concepts changed from the inception, sure, like my comic, but that was because of my realization that what I wanted to make is beyond my capabilities and skills, and because of me generally growing and changing as a whole person (So my priorities and tastes change), not because I sat down, carefully examined my work and issued out a verdict "this and that hurts my story as a whole, so it must be purged. *proceeds to delete 60% of the script* ". So far I've done that to just exactly 1 (one) scene of my comic.

So what prompted me to ask this because yet again I caught myself thinking over an idea for the story that initially was thrown in as "well maybe this can happen, IDK, this part of the story is so far into the future I shouldn't spend much effort on fleshing it out right now", but now, two years later, I more and more think of it like "this actually sounds like a cool twist and might be a visually epic scene, I want to leave it in now". So I again felt like I'm being that stupid duckling just mindlessly imprinting on the first thing it sees and ceasing wanting to let go of it.

I already hate my art, but in a playfully-ironic self-deprecating way that every artist says they hate their work. Like, maybe, "you won't be able to criticize me and my art skills if I criticize them first!" rationale. But how do I actually dislike my stuff enough to be able to throw it into the garbage and not view the alternatives as worse stuff because it's just not like this first idea?

[vothnthorvaldson]

Ah! Good question!
First, I don't think you HAVE to throw away your first ideas/draft.
It really depends on the way one constructs their projects. It's probably more likely to happen with projects with a long genesis.
It's not a necessity, but something that may happen to be the good decision in certain cases.

If the ideas NEED to be dumped, I'd answer: new ideas and a good deal of time.

My current project was first a music project (concept album type) and changing it into a comic forced me to change a lot of things. I'd say I 'mourned' some of the original ideas for about 3 years. From time to time I was still wondering if I should not reintroduce some of these ideas, or I would worry that I should have, in cases where it was too late already.
But recently I listened again to the (unfinished) music project and I did not feel any sadness anymore about the 'dumped ideas'.
The new ones I had to replace these parts slowly grew on me, and I can now appreciate how they fit the project better.

One thing to consider too, is that ideas are recyclable.
Dropped ideas can be cannibalized for another project.

[Aleksei]

I think that you mistake 'hate my art' just for the sake of hate it, than hate it because you now know more, and can change some parts of your original idea to adapt the knew you. You don't have to hate your art just because a tutorial said so, you have to do it for a purpose. And for that purpose you don't only have to leave the work aside for a couple of months and come back later to check if you still like it, you have to also grow with new ideas. Read some novels, comics, watch movies, tv series, and things that you even may not like, check tutorials from differents parts like YouTube, Domestika, to understand the basics of everything you may need or just for fun, then when you check again your draft you can say 'oh this was just like that scary movie that I hated that much o_o', or 'oh, with this watercolor technique I can do this vignette like 100% better'.

Now if after all that, you still don't want to change a comma from your piece, there is no problem either. There is no golden rule that must be followed. You just need to follow what you feel works for you, and if you feel that your original work is good, then go for it. When its all said and done, you can get some precious feedback that will help you on the long run and will not be lost time.

[cherrystark]

I think if you are operating under the idea that you must hate your ideas, is setting yourself up to fail. You might not be 100% in love with every single idea but you should be willing to recognize that you can learn from your ideas and be able to mix and match ideas into a plotline.

In regard to "killing your darlings", the only times I think you should "kill" your darling is either when there is nothing more they can add to the plot (tapped out) or their death adds to the emotional impact and affects someone else's arc. Other than that, put your characters through the wringer but realize that the struggles you put the character through can create new struggles for other characters.

For example, my main character is recovering from a tramatic experience from the prior story. In addition to my MC's struggles, the event has also been hard for her loved ones. Her father is struggling with watching his daughter in pain and his adopted daughter in a coma, and he can do nothing to help either of his girls. One event = lots of character development.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

not because I sat down, carefully examined my work and issued out a verdict "this and that hurts my story as a whole, so it must be purged. proceeds to delete 60% of the script ".

I don't know if many people actually do that...I know I certainly don't.

It's usually more of a process of systematic decay...like, I have a bunch of future ideas I wanna use, but as the story progresses and I make various smaller choices along the way, some of those future ideas become less and less viable (like, for example, a future redemption arc for a character whose crimes are currently getting more and more heinous...). Eventually I get to a point where certain ideas just won't work anymore, and there are plenty of new ideas to take their place, so they get the axe. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

If I had to guess, I think either you're (a) a careful planner who doesn't leave a lot of leeway for your story to unexpectedly change as time goes by, or (b) you just know what you want. Which isn't a bad thing.

I think the reason things like 'kill your darlings' can become bad advice is because they assume your first ideas are bad ones simply by virtue of being first, which is really only supported by experience, if anything.
People improve their stories with time, and they also get new ideas with time, so there's correlation...but not necessarily causation. ^^; There's no reason you can't stick with one idea and simply make it into the best version of itself over time.

[Kaydreamer]

I don't think many authors hate their ideas at all. Cultivating such a mindset sounds like a good way to poison yourself against ever wanting to write anything. You should love what you're doing, even at its roughest stages!

My stories look quite different now to how they did 5 years ago not because I hated parts and threw them out, but because I recognised what was incomplete and let it evolve. Sometimes, that meant adding or removing a character, or cutting a scene or ideas I liked; but that happened because I liked the new idea even more, (or because it simply makes more sense in the context of the plot), not because I liked the old idea any less.

[AmysGames]

I completely disagree with the notion that your first draft is "never good." Sure, it's more likely to have some kinks to work out in the early stages, but it's also just as possible to go into the story knowing exactly what you wanted from the start. Quite a few of my own stories, in fact, changed very little from the first draft.

I also feel that "kill your darlings" is really situational advice. It really only applies to the very specific scenario of "well, I really like this character/scene/whatever, but the story as a whole would be improved if I were to remove it." If there's nothing wrong with the darling, there's no reason to kill it. And you shouldn't force yourself to hate your own writing just because some random person on the internet told you to.

[AnimeKitty]

Do you really need to feel like your first draft is awful and you need to hate it? Being the complete opposite of you, and needing to rewrite constantly, I find it admirable how you're able to like your initial idea and keep it! I wish I had that ability. It would help me tremendously in finishing my own stories. Sure, it can be good to fix things, but you don't always need to.

Perhaps you've just got a good idea of how your story should be? You should always go with your gut, so if you think that cool twist is good, then you should keep it. You could always try finding someone to critique your work if you've got any doubts too.

[rajillustration]

If you tested out the other ideas and it didn't feel better after you tested them, then they weren't better. That happens a lot.

Kinda like how in school we were taught to make like pages and pages of concept art drafts before moving forward with illustration--no one has time for that in the field. You make 2 or 3 and then you need to move onward. There's a FOMO with what could have happened, and I don't think it's very healthy to dwell on "what if" too long when it comes to our own creations. They are what they end up being.

Like building a poker hand, it is better to have a hand that is legal and finished, then to have no hand at all because you tossed your lower number cards out hoping you'd pull a full house. (Is that poker? I've only really played poker on Dragon Quest so I don't know how it works with the bluffing and all that. TBH this analogy works better with Mahjong hands.) And, like a poker hand--all cards are worth the same individually, they only gain worth because of what they're next to--and sometimes you need time to build what's next to that moment in your story to see if it's turning into something or if it's just not. It may be that it's too early to tell if this part in the future that you're worried about will or won't be in there.

[Crusoe]

I agree with a lot of the comments above, BUT if you want to make a purge or see if your ideas will be worth it, find yourself a writer buddy or testreader to bounce ideas of of. Sometimes you stare yourself blind on your ideas and you won't be able to see their flaws anymore, especially if those ideas are near and dear to your heart. Having someone you trust to tell you that you should really rethink some aspects helps enormously.

[sc101]

Make a character then off set their perfections with flaws. Note that flaws don't need to be very visible. i.e. Making the nice girl a secret nazi might be attractive and very interesting if done correctly but flaws lie in the nuance. Also try to imagine characters as actual people that you might have known. That way your mc who might have for instance been a Mary sue with no hate in her precious heart turns out to be that 'fake' kid with whom a five minute conversation turns out to be a chore.
I write characters first so that helps me.

[thedude3445]

I think this sort of stuff tends to be overthought. The "writing advice" industry is populated largely by people in the traditional publishing world, who are trained on literary work and books being defined largely by their genres and all that sort of stuff. And one thing I've noticed from that sort of sphere is that people seem to think that first drafts are always these bloated whales that need to be chopped down into zippy little market-friendly dolphins.

But, I don't know. First drafts are basically always bad, yes, but it doesn't mean you need to throw a bunch of stuff out. Sometimes it means you need to ADD a bunch of stuff, which is almost universally what I do when I revise my work. You shouldn't remove anything you don't hate, so if you like or love a part of your story, then that's exactly what you should double down on. Because you loving your own story is much more important to its future success than anything else. You'll always know the flaws and feel dissatisfied with your final drafts, just like all authors, but as long as you know the parts you love, then you'll surely be fine with letting the whole world see it.

[darthmongoose]

So the way I do it, which at least works for me, is I tend to categorise scenes or events as "things for me" and "things for my audience".

I keep every scene I write. They all exist in text documents somewhere or other. Some of them I personally think are really cool or emotionally satisfying and I'll revisit them... BUT I also recognise that often these scenes don't work in my main script because:

1. They take too much explanation to be as enjoyable for the audience as they are for me. I know all my characters full backstories, family history, everything about their personalities and what they like, so there are scenes I might write that are super meaningful and emotionally intense to me, but to be the same to an audience, I'd have to have so many supplementary scenes to establish the context that makes the scene good, it'd just bloat the story.

2. They're too self-indulgent. Like all creators I have certain things I like. Characters making dramatic entrances, timeskips, characters who think they're beyond redemption being redeemed, people having long, rambly conversations about one thing when they mean another, anti-climaxes... In moderation, all these things can be fine or even good, but sometimes I just want to indulge in this melodramatic cheese to a level where it'd just be unbearable for an audience.

So I don't "kill" my darlings, I just "cut" them and shelve them somewhere. That scene was fun for me to write, but it won't be fun for somebody else to read, or it was fun to write, but do I really want to draw an entire sequence of several pages of the characters talking about a fictional shounen manga they used to read that is actually a metaphor for their relationship, when visually it'll be just them sat in a room for 4 pages? It can sit in a text document and I can revisit it when I want without subjecting my readers to it.
It's just like recognising that I have a tendency to ramble in conversations and teaching myself to stop when people look visibly bored. Could I monologue about Final Fantasy VIII for half an hour? Oh yes, I could! And I'd enjoy it! Should I go up to people at parties and monologue about FFVIII for 30 minutes? NO. That ramble is better just kept in my head or shoved on a blog or said to my partner who will spend most of it trying not to laugh while looking at their phone and then lovingly tell me I'm a dork and they enjoyed letting me passionately ramble because I was clearly having a great time.

So basically, feel free to make the things, but then be selective about which things you present the audience so that they get the clearest version of your story. You can then always show these "deleted scenes" as extras if you get people as passionately invested as you are.

[Rhonder]

My impression is that "killing your darlings" or, rather, editing down / revising, doesn't usually happen on as drastic of a scale as is described in the OP? I'm sure some authors work in that way, where they scrap so much that the project barely resembles itself by the end, but I think in most cases it's more subtle

It's more so about editing down, getting rid of extraneous aspects or elements, and trying to tell the story in a concise and clear way, I think. The reason that it's "killing your darlings" is because often a lot of the "fluff" that comes up in the drafting stages of a story are elements that we think are really cool- like a character we really like the design of, or a particular character interaction, or maybe several side-McGuffins in addition to the story's main McGuffin, or what have you. Sometimes these fit in a story well, but other times you have to go out of your way to reach them, introducing the aforementioned fluff, or otherwise they might just not be critical to telling the primary story and it's possible that by cutting or combining some of those aspects you can arrive at a tighter, better story.

---

I'll briefly talk about this process from my first Tapas one-shot comic. The original premise was that 2 teams of treasure hunters (each comprising of 4 members) were going to compete with one another to retrieve their town's important treasure that was stolen overnight.

Paragraph Summary of Rising Action

One team was originally tasked with the mission but the other overheard and wanted to thwart them and steal their job, basically. This resulted in a night time showdown between the teams as team A was settling in to camp for the night, where team B ambushed them. At the conclusion of the fight, team B releases some sleep gas on team A and continues on to pursue the thief. When team A wakes up in the morning they rush to catch up, only to find team B imprisoned in a stone cage. After freeing them team B informs A that the thief did that and shares the intel that they were able to gather from their encounter. One member from each team, a fire and water mage, then team up to go pursue the thief while the other 6 hold down the fort outside her base of operations. Then the climactic battle happened.

The short of it is that I ended up cutting most of the above content lol. My original project goal was 50ish pages and I was just trying to cram way way too much stuff into a short story. Most of the characters would have seriously lacked development and it would have ballooned the page count way beyond my initial scope (or had to have been rushed), neither of which I wanted for my project.

So, I ended up cutting out 4 characters total, the camping/fight scene, and the whole "rival team" subplot, and revised the rest of the events to work with the new character cast. Overall the final product still pretty closely resembles the original outline, but it was edited down to remove fluff and tell the story more clearly.

Like, the 4 characters I cut I was excited to draw and I thought they had fun designs and powers but... aside from the side plot (in an already short story), none of them really served a purpose and would have bogged things down in the big picture. Retrospectively, I should have actually cut a 5th character too- one of the 4 that I left in basically does nothing and could have been removed... but oh well~