How to make comics enjoyable for someone who's not that much of a comic reader?

gheddi 2020-07-16 12:56:13 UTC #1

Hi everyone!,

This is my first post and I just discovered Tapas and I didn't even know a cool place for WebComics existed, so this is pretty cool! Anyways, as I'm talking to professionals here, I wanted to adress a few thoughts about comics and creating comics (WARNING: This is a long one... but, I just had to get it out there) That being said, I'm german, so eventual grammar or spelling mistakes might occur! I have drawn and written comics since I can remember and I love the idea of making comics, however, I had some conflicting and up-to-discussion thoughts about the medium as a whole, and wanted to talk to other comic-people about it.
Please read all the way through and always keep in mind that I love and respect comic-authors and artists and that this is just my super subjective, own perception of stuff...

As I grew up (I'm 20 now) I gotta admit my preferences in entertainment mediums have shifted towards movies. Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for those comicbook legends like Alan Moore and Stan Lee, but I recently purchased Watchmen and like halfway through the book I felt like... why not just watch the movie. It's hard to say this without sounding disrespectful, but I really want to like reading comics and I have read some comics countless times (Calvin and Hobbes, Asterix, Tank Girl (this one I read like 4 times, the entire big hardcover book)), but most of them just feel... kinda lacking to me. I thought about this a lot and I came to the following points:

The big advantages of movies and animated features (essentially an animated comic) is the presence of
1. Sound & Music
2. Motion
3. Timing
and the minor advantages are
4. A big camera view at all times (movies-scenes are always as big as the medium you're watching on)

The first point, Sound & Music, is, alongside motion, the hardest to have a work-around. I've read articles about how to maximize the comic.sound-effect effect (lol) of these "BAM!" and "POW!" and "BOOM!" sounds and thought about implementing a music recommendation on the first page of my comic just to provide some sort of auditive stimulation to the reader, because, and this is also why I don't really like books: I can't stand silence. I watch a lot of movies, old and new, and I get goosebumps when sound design is done right. That in combination with great cinematography and it's an experience I never had reading comics, nor reading books.
Now timing and motion is something that can be visualized in a still image, although not nearly as adrenaline-rush inducing as in an actual motion sequence, but still doable. Dynamic dialogue, with spaces between words, tone of voice; all that can be done in comics, although the reader really needs to immerse themselves in the comic and has to actively contribute to the experience by thinking of the sounds or the tone of the voice. Now I'm not gonna lie, I have problems doing that. I'm usually sitting in the theaters, putting pop-corn in my mouth and letting it happen and that's probably the root of my problem. I lack the ability to fully embrace the medium; comics aswell as books, and that's why I conceive comics as an inferior form of entertainment in comparison to movies. That's of course only my perception and NONE of this is objective. As I said, I really don't wanna disrespect anybody at all! I actually hope that someone can give me some sort of tip or idea of how I can overcome this feeling. When I'm making my comics, which is a lot of fun, I keep thinking: "If I had sound now, that would be cool. If I could add music, I would add this song!" and I feel it's crucial for the reader to have that info aswell for the full experience. But you can't really implement that. In the end, I strive for my comics to be movie-esque, which probably already is the mistake. I make super big panels, with motion blur backgrounds. Dialog with one face a panel and the blurry shoulder of the person being talked to; very movie-ish. Important motions and mimickry get an exaggerated amount of panels... Maybe I should see the medium as what it is: something different. Something great, that neither needs to be nor strives to be a movie, but to be something great in it's own. And that being said, comics do have a few advantages over movies!

Highly detailed panels (as theres no time frame in which the reader can look at the scene you have more freedom in detail. Movie scenes with a finite duration (e.g. 5 seconds) can only pack so much detail until the viewer gets distracted so much, that they can't comprehend the information in that time-span.
The use of different artistic mediums. Be it traditional painting like watercolor, oil, acrylic or pencil or digital or a blend of 'em all. The still standing image gives the option for some cool effects.
The use of typography. Quite unique to the comic-world, the use of great typography can really enhance a comic. Afterall typography is something they teach in every designer school!

However, an animated feature, let's say an old Disney movie like Robin Hood (my alltime favorite) or Bambi still has all those advantages; high detail, a lot of watercolor backgrounds and just a great vibe. The great thing about comics is that a single person can make them, while an animated feature or movie takes an entire team, time and money to make. The "one-man-army" advantage in comic-making allows for controverse or outlandish ideas that a sponsor for a movie probably neglects, as the risk of financial failure is too high. But anyways, this is how I often feel about comics. And I love drawing, but I never had this crazy adrenaline rush moment reading comics or books. I had goosebumps and adrenaline watching movies on big theatre speakers though Seeing it that way only theres nothing movies can't do that comics can, while comics need to find hardcore workarounds to at least be on par with movies, and only lackluster in many of these regards (sound, for instance).

I wanna quickly mention that I'm probably on a sole position here. This is a problem of my perception, not a problem of comics or the medium. I should find a way to overcome this, as I feel like I'm missing out on awesome stories, awesome art and other cool things, if I never change my mindset.

Hope someone understands! And maybe has a tip or two. You're all cool people and if you have made it this far down, respect, dude!

Greetings from Germany
Sam

EDIT: I changed "respect" for "disrespect" somewhere up there. It now makes sense! Haha

Rhonder 2020-07-16 18:09:35 UTC #2

Hey Sam, welcome to Tapas/the forums It's great to see someone just roll in and immediately slap down a substantial and interesting discussion topic!

For the advantages of comics vs. other mediums, you hit on my own feelings here:

I feel like many creators have probably dreamed of what it would be like to see their story/IP in a larger, more extravagant medium such as animation, film or even something like a video game, but unfortunately for the average person those things are well outside the scope of what can be done:

A.) by a single person
B.) within a reasonable time frame, and/or
C.) within a reasonable budget

For independent creators too, as you said, having the freedom to create a story with any subject matter you want opens the doors for some really cool and original projects. Further these limitations even effect professionals in the industry too- only the most popular series end up seeing animated series or other adaptations typically. There are a lot of comics published by even the big companies that never see the light of other mediums

As for suggestions on how to enjoy comics more... That's a tough one! Since it's such a personal interpretation I can relate in some ways as being someone that thoroughly enjoys making comics but that doesn't actually read as many as I probably should haha. Granted! I do really enjoy the comics that I do read, but I don't carve out a huge amount of time for them in my free time... when compared to drawing/writing my own stuff, or indulging in other entertainment like video games.

It may be that you just haven't found the comics that have enthralled you enough to lose yourself in them, or maybe they're just not a medium that you enjoy consuming which is okay too~ As a creator it's still useful to look at other people's work to learn and study different ways to do things but I don't think being a comic author means that comics have to be your favorite entertainment.

As a final aside, this is a very tapas-specific thing but you can actually add music (within limitations) to comics here they have to exist on the soundcloud website, and only apply for people reading on the website (the music doesn't show up on the app) but yeah. Here's a comic about musicians that utilizes music on most of its pages:

There's a little play button at the top of the episodes.

Blizzriel 2020-07-16 18:19:40 UTC #3

I wouldn't call it Tapas-specific. Webtoon also has a feature where you can add music to comic episodes, and though it's not widely used, I've seen a few comics add in music for effect. One in particular that adds music to every episode is Cursed Princess Club by LambCat:

The author makes the music themselves in addition to the writing and art.

To be fair, Webtoon's music features aren't immediately obvious, to the point where if someone adds music to an episode they usually add a note at the beginning telling readers to turn sound on. As far as I know, there's no autoplay feature. I just wanted to point out that Tapas isn't the only option if you want to add sound to a comic.

Rhonder 2020-07-16 18:22:12 UTC #4

Oh, is that available for non-Featured/Original Comics though? I don't see an option for that anywhere on my episodes... but it may just be so un-obvious that I'm missing it somehow lol

Blizzriel 2020-07-16 18:25:40 UTC #5

I don't actually know, now that I think of it. I don't have a comic on there yet so I haven't looked deeply into the options, but I only remember seeing music on featured comics, so it might be featured-specific.

Edit: Just had a look, and it is featured-specific. Well damn.

gheddi 2020-07-16 21:22:55 UTC #6

Thanks Rhonder, for the in-depth answer! I had no idea of that feature, and will maybe utilize it!
And as you said about not having found the comic yet that really sparked my interest:
I just didn't read that many yet! And some of those that I did read like Tank Girl and Calvin and Hobbes are things that I read very often because i just love them. So I think it is possible for me to enjoy comic to a great extent, I will just have to find the ones that go with my taste!

Thanks a lot and greetings!

rajillustration 2020-07-17 00:21:31 UTC #7

I think you just gotta branch out and find the comics that hit you. Like, you're 20 now, and so you may be getting older and the comics of your youth aren't as...impactful? That just happens when you're 20, your tastes change. I remember going through a period where I was like "oh no I don't like cartoons anymore???" And I still did, I just didn't want kid cartoons. Likewise, there's comics for adults, too (and not just Marvel and DC stuff, which is just a little segment of a huge comic industry). Maybe it's something in webcomics, maybe it's manga, maybe it's graphic novels, maybe it's indie comics--but I suggest starting with a genre you like and trying stuff out.

Like for me, I didn't really respect comics until I picked up Maus when I was in my 20's and was like...hot damn this can be a really powerful medium. There's a lot of interesting comics out there that need to be comics in order to tell the story the right way. You can't really make Maus into a movie or a book. It wouldn't work right.

But I wouldn't be too concerned about it. I don't like most of the books I pick up. It's because I'm quite picky. When I was a kid I just devoured them, youknow--and now I'm feeling the same about movies. Used to just watch whenever and feel that same spark but after I hit 30 it was like...I have GOT to be more picky about movies or I'm just bored. Just part of getting older.

amortelito 2020-07-17 00:37:02 UTC #9

Hi, nice to meet you!
I have a similar problem while reading, the silence at times gets eerie and my thoughts about something else often overpower whatever I am reading.

To me this is only about preferences, not about "which medium is better". Humans have different areas of intelligence. Some people learn by movement and touching, others learn better through sound, others by images, and others by abstracts.

The way you learn is connected to the activities you enjoy the most. So, it makes sense that movies (which are a combination of visuals and sound) are more appealing to you than a book.
You don't really have to overcome it, you could try to find a way to make short videos showing the comic with music and effects.

It so great that you are finding the way to make your comics more "movie-like" by the way you draw the panels, use typography, etc.

AVXP 2020-07-17 03:01:18 UTC #10

You have the absolute answer already, so what are we here talking about this?

What would anyone want to help you change your feelings?
Why do you want to change your feelings?

You're trying to name "objective things" to support your subjective feelings.
I don't think you need to and aside from that, every 'objective' fact you present is objectively wrong.
From a subjective point of view.

Do you consider video games a superior medium than movies?
You MUST because video games are sight, sound and two things movies are not.
Immersive from character control and physical- from a rumble (vibration) controller.

By your own logic, video games are superior to movies.
And that means ANY video game MUST be superior since they surpass your "objective" criteria.

The point of all these mediums is to TELL A STORY. That's it.
What's the BEST medium for YOU to tell your story- with all considerations?

Go do that one and don't worry over how you feel about the rest.
No one really cares.

Whoever said it's about how you like to learn was brilliant. They could have said "It's really about HOW you like to get your story,"

A video game might not work for some because it's too much to ask - to control a character and navigate a world, meet objectives, solve puzzles, tests etc....

And a BOOK might be asking for too work from a person's imagination.

Choosing mediums that require the LEAST amount from the consumer says more about the consumer than the medium.

darthmongoose 2020-07-17 09:12:53 UTC #11

I'm with AVXP on this one. Why should I put effort into changing your mind? Why should I go out of my way to cater to you? Seems like a lot of effort for little payoff on my end; I'd rather focus on convincing people who do enjoy reading comics why my comic in particular is worth their time (hard enough on its own, they have so much choice, so much of it is really good).

If you don't like reading comics... well, sucks to be you, you're missing out. Comics are a visual storytelling medium where in the digital age a solo creator can tell a big, cinematic story without needing the money or resources for a big team or fancy equipment like an animation or TV show would require. That means you get stories from people whose marginalised identities or niche audience would make it really hard for them to create a TV show or movie, so if you want to read about a team of LGBTQIA+ superheroes, for example, or a slice of life about a black trans person, with the same level of production values as the big budget smash hit series... comics are the medium where that can happen. They're the place where one creator can realise their vision through raw skill, imagination and hard work.

If you won't put in the effort to engage your brain and read these works... well, the door's over there.

gheddi 2020-07-17 19:23:37 UTC #12

I love cartoons and comics alike. I consume a lot of kids media like animated movies and shows (Rocko, Ren & Stimpy, Courage) and I've also read Maus twice! It's a very interesting comic. I've also picked up an illustrated version of Kafkas Transformation, which I also really liked. I'm into all sorts of genres, I really like sci-fi and post-apocalyptic things, aswell as fantasy, really just everything. Im not that much into Mangas but I've read those Junji Ito horror mangas a bit and found them quite cool! I also liked Samurai Shamploo, the only anime I ever watched. And the whole age thing is, I'm actually more interested in the concept of comics now than I was with 15. Back then I only knew Calvin and Hobbes, thats about it. Now I really wanna dive into it more and discover some things, I just had some mediocre experiences with Marvel and DC comics, that didn't spark my artistic interest, really. But thanks for the reply! Greetz

gheddi 2020-07-17 19:26:00 UTC #13

Hi,
making it more movie-esque is definitly helping me being happier about my own work. Once Im comfortable showing it outside a friends circle I will also upload some! Yeah, I think about the advantages of the comic medium and movies a lot and try to emphasize everything the medium has to offer. Im convinced you can make a comic that can reach movie-ish levels if done right. But that's a long way still!
Thanks for the reply

gheddi 2020-07-17 19:37:55 UTC #14

Hi,

I wouldn't say games are superior. They surely have a more intuitive feel to them, but movies are still my favourite, because I dont't have to do anything but watch. I don't know how to feel about your answer, but I embrace comics for several reasons and just wanted to hear other's peoples opinion on the medium in the realm of all the entertainment mediums we currently have. I like video games but from a story-telling aspect I dig movies more. As I mentioned all this is subjective. And why wouldn't people care? You seemingly cared enough to read all that and answer with a big text. And why do I want to change my feelings? Because Im certain you can learn to enjoy things. Just like I enjoyed certain music genres or foods only after a time of getting used to them. And I'm sure there's super cool comics that wait for me but I need to adjust to the medium more. I see movies as the ultimate, as they give the creator full creative control. Music, sound, motion, visuals, angles, perspective, composition, length. The process of making them is super hard. Animated or not. So comics are the go to medium for people who are doing storytelling as a hobby and don't have several million dollar budgets. Your interrogating question and assumptions about why "my logic" would automatically lead to this or that is mildly impolite. Anyways, no need to argue. Thanks for the reply...

Greetings

Rhonder 2020-07-17 19:44:10 UTC #15

Oh! This actually reminded me of on author on Tapas that I know that goes into really crazy amazing artwork that gives off a movie-ish vibe, check out their comics maybe:

gheddi 2020-07-17 19:46:11 UTC #16

Hi,

you should re-read my original post. I like comics, and I see them as the go-to medium for someone who wants to bring their idea into the best form of story-telling that a single person can do. I do like movies and I like comics and I like to implement movie-features in comics to make them more enjoyable to someones who's not used to comics. Why would you bother convincing me? Because I want to be convinced, it's not like I said "Comics suck, change my mind". It's that I'm sure there's comics that go beyond the standart DC and Marvel way of storytelling and that would definitly spark my interest. As I said I've read some graphic novels multiple times. Be it Maus or Tank Girl, I see them on par with my favourite movies. Telling me that "the door is over there" only makes the comic community seem very gate-keeperish. But I'll ignore that and continue my journey into the comic world, because I'm sure I can reach a level at where comics entertain me as much as movies. The number one point being, as you and I mentioned, the fact that singular people can bring their idea to life. I hope nobody here got offended in any way by my original post. I just wanted to spark a discussion about movies and about comics. That's it.
Greetz

gheddi 2020-07-17 19:46:46 UTC #17

Thanks, Ill make sure to check them out!

EDIT: Wow that "You Were Worth It" comic is sick! Definitly in the realm of what I was trying to say. Really nice artwork. Thanks a lot!

AVXP 2020-07-17 22:23:30 UTC #18

I still think you make statements like this that have several errors in them.
Each sentence is factually wrong - and it's the opposite.

1) Your biggest error in logic is comparing a webcomic or any "hobby level" thing to a finished Hollywood (professionally done) blockbuster.

2) It doesn't cost millions to make a movie. You can shoot a movie with an iPhone. Look up the entire indie and low-budget aspect of film-making.

3) Movies have the LEAST amount of creative control. Check the 100 and 1 threads about "What if Hollywood came and wanted to butcher your comic- would you let them?" That wouldn't be a thing- if that result wasn't so common.

4) When you talk about 'control' you mean being able to express a sound or have thematic music (or even actual songs) along with the visuals. That is correct as one of the great things about the film/movie medium. With books and comics, those elements are supplied by the reader. You don't read "BOOM!" you hear a loud explosion in your head.

5) Comics are NOT the 'go to' medium for ANY kind of storytelling. If you want to TELL A STORY, you know what? You tell a story. You spend more time EVERY DAY listening to someone telling you a story, literally, telling you a story -before looking at pictures or reading anything or watching video of any kind.

6) Everything in life is based on telling a story. The story is everything. The biggest sports events are made from the story behind the rivalry. Gossip is a story. News is a story. Everything. A meme is a picture with some text trying to explain the story behind the image.

==========
As far as the COMIC BOOK MEDIUM is concerned, the word comic is key. A stand-up comic lands jokes by exaggerating the frequency and intensity of an event- with great attention to detail. What do stand up comics do? They tell BIG stories. A comic book artist exaggerates...sounds are louder, faces overly expressive- the action bigger and bolder than real life. They are tons of conventions or things that work in comics that do not work in any other medium.

-- Things that are fine for comics, but look SILLY or just wrong in any other context. There are things the reader accepts ONLY because of the medium. I could write a whole paper about that.

Books (the written story) come first. Screenplay, script etc. A storyboard is the 'comic version' of the story. And finally it's filmed. That's the basic movie making process. It goes through that process to make sure the STORY is properly conveyed and understandable by the audience. [That's why comics are important]

The mediums are known to be different by the amount of information they can convey.
If you want the complete story of something, you read the book version. The only thing that beats that is being told the story by the author. lol
===================

Here's my subjective thoughts and perspective on it.
I am making comics to give the reader a comic book reading experience.
I read books to get what books give me.
I watch movies to have a movie-watching experience.

I have made comic books USING ACTUAL SCENES from my own movie.
It don't get no realer than that. lol

I'm okay with you thinking movies are superior or above comics or whatever.
I say KEEP THINKING THAT.
Lastly, I write long paragraphs because I care about the subject.

gheddi 2020-07-17 23:49:56 UTC #19

Yeah at least that's a polite way to say that I'm wrong, lol...
I get your point. I think I learned a lot from this discussion and thanks for pointing out the advantages of comics (e.g. things that ONLY work in comics).
I am aware of indie movies, my favourite movies happen to be of rather "alternative" origins or not so much hollywood influenced. Anyways, I've read through a bunch of comics on Tapas and ordered myself 2 graphic novels that I'll probably dig, therefor this discussion is almost pointless as I'm already reading and making comics again so I think it's time to close this one up. I'm not really seeing movies as superior, although I know I said that, and I think I'll change my opinion on that. Maybe I'm a neanderthal but I'm just the type of person to like movies because you don't have to invest yourself so much into them. You're literally just pointing your eyes in their direction. That's why I dont read a lot of books. My rudimentary developed brain is too exhausted by blocks of text and no pictures and no sound lmao. Here, again, theres some exceptions of books that I've read multiple times, because I loved them so much.
Man, am I one to talk to huh! I've also made my own movies with friends and it was a lot of fun, but I haven't implemented that into my comics yet. Good idea though.Thanks for taking your time, ha...
Cheers