How to write a w###igo?

[DiegoPalacios]

I disagree with Black people regularly so 🤷

One could agree or disagree with anyone, no matter their race, creed, gender, sexual orientation or any variable.....

[elyss]

True, but one of the biggest issues with discourse is that groups will at times exclude certain people based on their race or ethnicity. Twitter and some reddit forums are notorious for this so I always cover my bases these days

[Iris-Grimoire]

One that doesn't take its own myths seriously compared to one that does? You'd be hard pressed to find a neopagan that thinks Final Fantasy is offensive to their beliefs, for a very loose example. With Wendigos, I hear this on the regular, and I'm in no place to decide if they're being reasonable or not, I'm not Indigenous.

On names, that's the entire problem of cultural appropriation. Back then, it was a normal roman and/or catholicization method to act like all the pagan gods are just really normal humans or sly demons to legitimize dropping those beliefs. Several US Indigenous populations are car brands according to google. A certain g slur got used for wandering performer aesthetic in a LOT of places and a lot of people, including me for a time, thought it was the right way to refer to Roma (it wasn't). And now, Wendigo is spooky skull deer thingy. Diluting a culture that would like people to, please, do proper depictions of their beliefs or not do it at all, is pretty bad.

"They did it before and it was okay" does not justify doing it now, I already said this in a previous post. Do. Better.

[TAMAnnoying]

“Do better” becomes quite the platitude when you have nothing more to give to someone who simply wants to have some creative liberties in their stories and native people like if not love the stories told with their mythos that they don’t get to see very often anyways.

[CytricAcid]

Leaving this here, it's more in regards to the furry fandom, but if you're going to write anything about native americans, you should listen to native american voices, especially on cultural appropriation.

060 — JUST DON'T BE THAT GUY! – Barking Points Memo – Podcast

As for W*, need look no further than Flight Rising and how they changed a familiar/enemy from a W* to a pronghorn. If you think native amercians don't care about this, you're wrong, and you're not looking hard enough.

@TAMAnnoying no marginalized people likes it when their oppressors tell their stories "for them". i don't know where you got that idea.

Be VERY aware of confirmation bias, and be VERY aware of what people who are NOT of an oppressed minority try to tell you what is okay or not. If Kindred on twitter didn't have to lock last night because of anti-native harassment, I would direct you to his twitter, but right now I can only get that podcast. If anything, you should speak with actual native people rather than Tapas about trying to respect someone elses culture properly.

[indagold]

Idk it's a mythological creature, just research it since there should be info online. Usually finding the native name for it helps better than the anglicized version but remember people confuse it with skinwalkers except they're two different things from different parts of the americas. Also I really hate people act like native culture should remain untouchable. I know a lot of people who are and they're depressed they never get representation anywhere even if it's in a cartoon or even a doodle. Do portray it realistically, it will probably make people happy to see it.

[joannekwan]

I think this post succinctly explains a bit about the creature's origins well.

The Wendigo: Morality and Taboo in Native American Mythos

At its origin, the creature was directly tied to Algonquian religion, which is why it can be a sore spot for some people. Add on to the fact that it's uniquely tied with a culture and people who were nearly eradicated, I understand why individuals and groups would want to preserve the folklore in its purest form possible and fear that any popular media interpretations might supplant the true stories.

So I'll just second what @vothnthorvaldson suggested and add that if you do still want to base your villain off the creature, make sure plot points and the world-building supporting your villain don't throw real Native folklore under the bus. Careful research is always appreciated! Just look at the mistakes JK Rowling made.

J.K. Rowling faces backlash for her new depiction of Native American history |...

[TAMAnnoying]

Be VERY aware of confirmation bias, and be VERY aware of what people who are NOT of an oppressed minority try to tell you what is okay or not.

Funny, sounds like you may have this bias since ive only heard form the one native person in this thread saying they dont really care that much and ive met OTHER native people irl who prefer the skull and antlers cause it looks cooler to them maybe there be some double think ? or we're just ignoring the native people who dont agree with our bias

[DiegoPalacios]

I think we both agree that we can't speak for indigenous people.

so let them speak instead of speaking for them.

Oh, and if the deer skull thingy is culture appropriation then I appropriated my own culture already.

maybe you know someone who is not okay with that specific portrayal?, if you do, they are more than welcome to enrich this conversation

[amortelito]

If anything, you should speak with actual native people rather than Tapas about trying to respect someone elses culture properly.

Well, we HAVE native people in here, in fact they just answered about their thoughts. This is a great place to listen to opinions because most of us come from different heritages. This is actually one of the places where you will find a lot of diversity (not only "oppressor's" voices.) It great to listen to other opinions in other places like social media too, it makes the conversation richer.

[CytricAcid]

You should talk to the OP of the podcast, not me. I'm only merely boosting their voices.
If you would like more sources from native voices, I can provide. Or do you only want voices from Tapas forums, and not activists from outside of this forum?
https://twitter.com/WOLFSTRIKEZ/status/1346005367482949632 (if you cannot read this right now, he'll unlock once anti native harassment dies down.)

https://twitter.com/Tonya_Song/status/1346487515570610177

Might I suggest a sensitivity reader, as well?

[SpavVy]

I have two friends who are of native descent and they also do not care about this depiction, one of them even loves my wendigo character and I do plan to add other depictions of the creature in my series not just the popular deer skull version. I could ask my grandmother or great uncle but my family was never really the type to be superstitious and my grandmother isn't really all that in touch with our heritage anyway.

There was a time when Rooster Teeth held a contest so fans could design their own grim to put into RWBY. The winner created a wendigo themed grim but she faced major backlash from the fandom which forced Rooster Teeth to disqualify her entry, this not only upsetted me but other people who have native American heritage as well and I remember seeing many of people sending her love and support myself included. Some could say I don't speak for all native people and they are right, I don't but at the same time neither do they.

[amortelito]

I'm not making you responsible for the content in the podcast and I'm not picking a fight. I'm pointing out that there can be other opinions from the same community and it's okay for them to be heard too. They are valid. "Or do you only want voices from Tapas" I literally just said that finding opinions from other platforms its great to enrich the conversations.

[DiegoPalacios]

Some could say I don't speak for all native people and they are right, I don't but at the same time neither do they.

Exactly!, humans are different and even if people may share some backgrounds they dont need to be a blind homogenous hivemind or anything like that.

They have the right to their opinions and you have the right to yours.

As long as people can differentiate facts from opinions and people don't try to force said opinions, a civil conversation will be possible and understanding can be reached.

[SpavVy]

And the thing that really ticked me off with the RWBY thing I saw was people who had not even a sliver of Native blood go in and say they need to use their "privilege" to speak up for MY PEOPLE. Which to me sounds pretty racist.
My people like you said aren't a hivemind.

[DiegoPalacios]

i ran out of likes for the "share your recent drawing" thread, but hope this reply can express the spirit of it

[TAMAnnoying]

The biggest thing to take from all this is that you cannot please everyone different people are going to like different things and some will like the skull deer wendigo and some will like the wendigos that we got to see in things like Until Dawn. Both can be good if used in a way that isn't insulting to the native people and if the native people enjoy it then you cant tell them they're wrong for enjoying it.

And the thing that really ticked me off with the RWBY thing I saw was people who had not even a sliver of Native blood go in and say they need to use their "privilege" to speak up for MY PEOPLE. Which to me sounds pretty racist. My people like you said aren't a hivemind

i hate to say it but this often feels like the unwelcomed white knight fadora "malady" who think they are defending people from those people they're acting like.

Didnt know about that with RWBY! I hope the artist at least got a lot of love after that! it can be very disheartening for a creator when that happens. I've seen some quit because if it. :<

[SpavVy]

@TAMAnnoying
Exactly! And at the end of the day, this is entertainment, it doesn't have to be 100% accurate plus there are more depictions of the wendigo spirit depending on the tribe last I checked, some depict it as humanoid, some depict it as a giant that will grow bigger and hungrier the more it eats or that its made of ice.

[TAMAnnoying]

awwwwww shiiii i didnt know about the ice one! Now i gotta see if i can find some cool drawings of that!

[SpavVy]

@TAMAnnoying
Here you may find this interesting then