How to write a w###igo?

[DiegoPalacios]

it could also be a mandela effect....

I may be wrong tho.... @elyss do you have any source we could see?

It would help a lot

[SpavVy]

Oh, and if the deer skull thingy is culture appropriation then I appropriated my own culture already.

[elyss]

@DiegoPalacios & @Inspector_Spinda My fiancé's Native friends have complained to her about it on a number of occasions. Though keep in mind all groups have people who view things differently. I disagree with Black people regularly so 🤷

[DiegoPalacios]

it depends on which name and culture you're taking it on.

What would make a culture more important or more sacred than other?

This is why it's a bit meh to treat mythologies as a buffet or argue about "limiting creations"

Actually, many modern and older works have built their worlds around different interpretations of mythology.

Mythology has been a solid foundation of inspiration for millions of works of fiction and fantasy.

And even if one goes with their own approach, there is the old saying "there's nothing new under the sun". Inspiration for stories come from many sources, and removing one of them, even if one could argue there are many other more, it can limit the creativity potential.

but if you're going to make something so removed from the origin, why bother calling it something it isn't? Make a new species, make an OC, wikipedia or blogs aren't where creation ends.

Sometimes such names can ease up a viewer or reader to such unfamiliar worlds in storytelling.

Guess it would depend on a case by case basis when is convenient and fitting to call a creature a vampire, or another name.

[vothnthorvaldson]

I can understand a bit both sides here.
I understand the repugnance of possibly be part of the bad, but relatively homogeneous representation of the myth in popular culture. It's less (or not at all) a problem when everyone has their own entirely different interpretation, as the reader won't by default assume one interpretation as 'the good one' when they are presented with many.

However, like was said before, mythologies evolve. And not only by being reinterpreted by totally different set of people (which always happens and is part of the construction of all mythologies), but even by the same set of people. It is likely that if you were digging further and finding people very close to the original myth, they would likely each present it a bit differently. (Personal anectdote. I married a person from India but am from a different culture. One time I went to India with my in laws and we met a few neighbours and at a time I had a question relating to mythology -more than religion ie. not a spiritual question but something more related to folk- . It ended.. in a (good humored) argument XD. they all learnt different versions. I still don't have an answer.. but it does not matter, that's what make the richness of mythologies).
In your specific case, these versions would probably be much much closer to each others than to any of the pop culture versions (both because the pop versions are so different from the base of the myth and probably because the myth is issued from a much smaller population with probably less expansion- all that being guesses, I don't actually know), so starting from that would be a good way to go IF you wanted to go for a true portrayal of the myth. But I understood it is not what you want.
If you want to write something influenced by the wendigo but you don't want it to be recognized as one, I would suggest:
- a different physical appearance than the ones commonly seen in media. Some aspects may have to be kept but make sure to not have too many of the distinctive features.
- characteristics that are either novel or coming from another creature. Everything is influenced by something already existing, there is nothing wrong about it. If the reader thinks 'this creature reminds me both of a wendigo and a whatever' this is totally fine, and if you can built a consistent new creature that really make sense with a mix of attributes from different already existing creatures, that will probably be an interesting one.
- More important: Try to think of why your creature made you think of a wendigo to begin with. What do the have in common? What is different? What characteristics of this creature do you need to keep to make the story work? What can be changed to make your creature more singular without breaking the story? What is the general environment in which your creature appear? (Can be psychological or geographical etc. Eg for geographical if it is a starvation creature appearing in a sandy desert it's less likely people will associate it to a wendigo).
Generally, keep only the characteristics that you need and develop you own for the rest. Not only it should clear your fears regarding writing a 'wrong' wendigo, but it should also help you built a more personal creature, which may be more interesting to read for the engaged reader.

[DiegoPalacios]

I disagree with Black people regularly so 🤷

One could agree or disagree with anyone, no matter their race, creed, gender, sexual orientation or any variable.....

[elyss]

True, but one of the biggest issues with discourse is that groups will at times exclude certain people based on their race or ethnicity. Twitter and some reddit forums are notorious for this so I always cover my bases these days

[Iris-Grimoire]

One that doesn't take its own myths seriously compared to one that does? You'd be hard pressed to find a neopagan that thinks Final Fantasy is offensive to their beliefs, for a very loose example. With Wendigos, I hear this on the regular, and I'm in no place to decide if they're being reasonable or not, I'm not Indigenous.

On names, that's the entire problem of cultural appropriation. Back then, it was a normal roman and/or catholicization method to act like all the pagan gods are just really normal humans or sly demons to legitimize dropping those beliefs. Several US Indigenous populations are car brands according to google. A certain g slur got used for wandering performer aesthetic in a LOT of places and a lot of people, including me for a time, thought it was the right way to refer to Roma (it wasn't). And now, Wendigo is spooky skull deer thingy. Diluting a culture that would like people to, please, do proper depictions of their beliefs or not do it at all, is pretty bad.

"They did it before and it was okay" does not justify doing it now, I already said this in a previous post. Do. Better.

[TAMAnnoying]

“Do better” becomes quite the platitude when you have nothing more to give to someone who simply wants to have some creative liberties in their stories and native people like if not love the stories told with their mythos that they don’t get to see very often anyways.

[CytricAcid]

Leaving this here, it's more in regards to the furry fandom, but if you're going to write anything about native americans, you should listen to native american voices, especially on cultural appropriation.

060 — JUST DON'T BE THAT GUY! – Barking Points Memo – Podcast

As for W*, need look no further than Flight Rising and how they changed a familiar/enemy from a W* to a pronghorn. If you think native amercians don't care about this, you're wrong, and you're not looking hard enough.

@TAMAnnoying no marginalized people likes it when their oppressors tell their stories "for them". i don't know where you got that idea.

Be VERY aware of confirmation bias, and be VERY aware of what people who are NOT of an oppressed minority try to tell you what is okay or not. If Kindred on twitter didn't have to lock last night because of anti-native harassment, I would direct you to his twitter, but right now I can only get that podcast. If anything, you should speak with actual native people rather than Tapas about trying to respect someone elses culture properly.

[indagold]

Idk it's a mythological creature, just research it since there should be info online. Usually finding the native name for it helps better than the anglicized version but remember people confuse it with skinwalkers except they're two different things from different parts of the americas. Also I really hate people act like native culture should remain untouchable. I know a lot of people who are and they're depressed they never get representation anywhere even if it's in a cartoon or even a doodle. Do portray it realistically, it will probably make people happy to see it.

[joannekwan]

I think this post succinctly explains a bit about the creature's origins well.

The Wendigo: Morality and Taboo in Native American Mythos

At its origin, the creature was directly tied to Algonquian religion, which is why it can be a sore spot for some people. Add on to the fact that it's uniquely tied with a culture and people who were nearly eradicated, I understand why individuals and groups would want to preserve the folklore in its purest form possible and fear that any popular media interpretations might supplant the true stories.

So I'll just second what @vothnthorvaldson suggested and add that if you do still want to base your villain off the creature, make sure plot points and the world-building supporting your villain don't throw real Native folklore under the bus. Careful research is always appreciated! Just look at the mistakes JK Rowling made.

J.K. Rowling faces backlash for her new depiction of Native American history |...

[TAMAnnoying]

Be VERY aware of confirmation bias, and be VERY aware of what people who are NOT of an oppressed minority try to tell you what is okay or not.

Funny, sounds like you may have this bias since ive only heard form the one native person in this thread saying they dont really care that much and ive met OTHER native people irl who prefer the skull and antlers cause it looks cooler to them maybe there be some double think ? or we're just ignoring the native people who dont agree with our bias

[DiegoPalacios]

I think we both agree that we can't speak for indigenous people.

so let them speak instead of speaking for them.

Oh, and if the deer skull thingy is culture appropriation then I appropriated my own culture already.

maybe you know someone who is not okay with that specific portrayal?, if you do, they are more than welcome to enrich this conversation

[amortelito]

If anything, you should speak with actual native people rather than Tapas about trying to respect someone elses culture properly.

Well, we HAVE native people in here, in fact they just answered about their thoughts. This is a great place to listen to opinions because most of us come from different heritages. This is actually one of the places where you will find a lot of diversity (not only "oppressor's" voices.) It great to listen to other opinions in other places like social media too, it makes the conversation richer.

[CytricAcid]

You should talk to the OP of the podcast, not me. I'm only merely boosting their voices.
If you would like more sources from native voices, I can provide. Or do you only want voices from Tapas forums, and not activists from outside of this forum?
https://twitter.com/WOLFSTRIKEZ/status/1346005367482949632 (if you cannot read this right now, he'll unlock once anti native harassment dies down.)

https://twitter.com/Tonya_Song/status/1346487515570610177

Might I suggest a sensitivity reader, as well?

[SpavVy]

I have two friends who are of native descent and they also do not care about this depiction, one of them even loves my wendigo character and I do plan to add other depictions of the creature in my series not just the popular deer skull version. I could ask my grandmother or great uncle but my family was never really the type to be superstitious and my grandmother isn't really all that in touch with our heritage anyway.

There was a time when Rooster Teeth held a contest so fans could design their own grim to put into RWBY. The winner created a wendigo themed grim but she faced major backlash from the fandom which forced Rooster Teeth to disqualify her entry, this not only upsetted me but other people who have native American heritage as well and I remember seeing many of people sending her love and support myself included. Some could say I don't speak for all native people and they are right, I don't but at the same time neither do they.

[amortelito]

I'm not making you responsible for the content in the podcast and I'm not picking a fight. I'm pointing out that there can be other opinions from the same community and it's okay for them to be heard too. They are valid. "Or do you only want voices from Tapas" I literally just said that finding opinions from other platforms its great to enrich the conversations.

[DiegoPalacios]

Some could say I don't speak for all native people and they are right, I don't but at the same time neither do they.

Exactly!, humans are different and even if people may share some backgrounds they dont need to be a blind homogenous hivemind or anything like that.

They have the right to their opinions and you have the right to yours.

As long as people can differentiate facts from opinions and people don't try to force said opinions, a civil conversation will be possible and understanding can be reached.

[SpavVy]

And the thing that really ticked me off with the RWBY thing I saw was people who had not even a sliver of Native blood go in and say they need to use their "privilege" to speak up for MY PEOPLE. Which to me sounds pretty racist.
My people like you said aren't a hivemind.