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Jan 2023

Just wanted to share this. I think there's a certain charm with your characters commenting on how boring the plot is becoming, or saying stuff like "how many pages is this BS going to take?" or "Just like the last volume" it's pretty cool. I don't know about you but for me, it elevates the comedy if done well.
Do you guys do meta jokes?

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    Jan '23
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    Feb '23
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It depends on the frequency and how it's done, but I can enjoy it. I think any sort of trope can be done right, and well. Just depends on how it's used.

They can be really fun, but I agree with CC, they can get a bit tiresome when the series feels like it's constantly referencing itself. Some series also tend to think that if they lampshade something that the series does poorly, it makes it okay in cases where... maybe the creator should have fixed the plothole instead of having the characters all say "Lol, there sure is a plothole there!"

I do like some though, like Scott Pilgrim uses them very well in a lot of cases. Scott and Ramona discussing their backstories and commenting that the deeper stuff will need to wait for later volumes is pretty entertaining. I also enjoyed a lot of how it was used in stuff like Deadpool and She-Hulk.

I'm with @candiedcotton on this one. I feel like Meta jokes and plots are becoming a little over-saturated lately.
I think the key to good meta-humor is to actually do something with the subject being joked about. I think a bad example of Meta-Humor is in Deadpool 2 (which I loved by the way) in which Deadpool says something along the lines of "Oh boy, looks like a CGI fight scene" is going to happen and it just happens.

It isn't much of a joke, it's just lampshading. Like you acknowledge the cliche and don't really do anything about it. A range of solutions to solving this would probably be, at least, a subversion of the cliche or at best using the cliche as a story element or having it contribute to the themes of the story. Like, I don't know, if instead of Colossus and Juggernaut fighting after he said that, Deadpool literally paid a Visual Effects Artist to delete the file with the Juggernauts model and he vanishes.

I don't hate meta stuff, but I guess my personal tastes lean towards immersive stories that make me feel absorbed into the world, while meta stuff (esp. humour) can often break immersion. I'll just let Past!Me say the rest:

I think it can sometimes be funny. Like in animated shows where they show behind the scenes. Like the car wash scene from Chowder or the animation program process from Bluey.

Tho most of the time, I tend to hate meta humor. I think it has been so overdone that it has gotten annoying. I feel like it is something that works better when used sparingly.

It can be fun, but I also feel like it’s a bit overdone. Or like the author is trying to defend their bad writing. I prefer characters that take themselves and the story seriously, that’s usually more entertaining for me.

It's odd that everyone's saying meta humor is overdone, I've never seen much of it myself...I think I probably just tend to avoid the genres that use it the most. ^^;

Lampshading is probably the most widespread example because it's easy (all you have to do is have the characters literally tell the viewer what's happening in front of them!) and often irreverent (you can pretend you don't care about and/or actively dislike the tropes and narrative themes you're using in your own story, which for some twisted and horrific reason is all the rage!)

And because of this, I don't really consider it a 'proper' example of meta humor, any more than I consider a stale knock-knock joke a comedy routine. A technique that basic should be part of a larger device; more people will find it funny that way.

Like @esquarecomics suggested, the easiest way to fix it is to have the characters do something about it. Have them realize they've been placed in a big fight scene that they don't actually want to participate in, and put a stop to it. Or have them realize a villain is headed towards a redemption arc, and actively try to set up the next steps in that arc to push them along and accelerate it. Something creative and fun, that actually has the characters interact with the genre they're in instead of just snarkily commenting on it.

Honestly, I don't think meta humor has to get stale if you use it that way, as an actual plot device. Instead, it tends to naturally fade out by itself, as the plot comes to a close and the story elements the characters set up or seek out start coming to fruition.
You can also keep it fresh by just limiting it to specific characters or situations, and/or having other characters comment on the meta-commentary. Probably the most fun meta-story that I wrote was written as if the MC's were just silly little kids pretending they were comic characters. Like, other characters would write them off as 'crazy' for thinking they have plot armor and things like that, and you could interpret their actions in the story that way, even though as the reader you know it's all just part of the joke. ^^

Gonna be honest... Meta stuff made me so jaded. I think Justin Roiland, Dan Harmon, and Marvel killed it for me. Deadpool annoyed me at first, but it took me a couple of watches to be like "OHHHH I GET IT!". If you think about Deadpool, you think about how ridiculously nerfed he is and how his whole plotline is f'd up where he just wants to be freed from a cage. Although heads-up, I don't think I'll ever fully love the character since he gets on my nerves with his Reddit humor.

SPEAKING OF WHICH if you do it incorrectly you could ruin tension of an entire story's narrative like Rick & Morty ("Once he reveals he's evil Morty, I'm out!") or She-Hulk (the whole K.E.V.I.N. twist). Like I get She-Hulk does it in the comics and it is accurate to a certain extent, but she's just a total sociopath in the show and her knowledge of the universe does make certain scenes a little more f'd up. (Good for the writers of Rick & Morty getting jobs, but... man... they are not doing it for me in Phase 4).

I guess you can boil it down to that archetype. Smug sociopaths who know more than the world that I'm sick of. That and it breaks worldbuilding for me.

I'm sorry if I sound really jaded here. I will say the meta stuff I liked because.

Gumball is really creative. Like how they find ways to change their voice actors. I love it when sociopathic fourth-wall breakers are reminded of how small THEY are in the grand scheme of things. Like the Decreator episode in Doom Patrol where Mr. Nobody begins to have this little freak-out when the Decreator is unleashed (Mr. Nobody felt like a jab at that archetype). Deadpool talking to his wife in the afterlife.

Also Sonic Boom giving me the greatest fourth wall joke ever don't @ me.

As for my story, I would call it meta. I think I regret making it that way to a certain extent (there are some jokes I'm tired of), but hopefully I can improve upon certain aspects in Season 2. There is a line that I made me a little angry that I wrote it "Why am I stick figure again?" "Because the artist needs to rest".

I don't implement Meta stuff, but I like reading them :smiley:

I mean, it doesn't really have to be a joke. It's just one way to use the concept. I added a meta monologue where the character goes "This is not some random story where a guy who has lost everything finds inspiration in an idiotic poem, gets motivated by those extra drops of ink on a white sheet, and changes his life, becoming a better person. What is this unrealistic, unoriginal plotline I’m being pulled into?" in a very serious moment, which is also smth that would make sense for him to say because he studies literature and there's a lot of discussion about stories in the story. It's a matter of when you use it and how. What the character says doesn't have to happen, and that's the charm, and the trope subversion works well with meta stuff to make easy comedy, tasteful if done well.

Exactly. It doesn't HAVE to be just comedy or humor. Actually, I use meta for serious moments more than the jokes...probably because my thingy is way too dramatic but I do have silly scenes in it.

some shows use it really well. Gumball and R&M are really good example of it; but I have seen a lot of tasteless comedy as well that turned me off.

I feel like it worked in the first few seasons of Rick and Morty but got tiring in the recent one. I remember watching some recent episode and something interesting happened but they turned it into some meta joke. I guess they are aware that the show changed and were making fun of how they don’t have silly plots like in season 2. Yet, tho silly plots were what made the show popular in the first place. 🤦‍♂️

I hate how the new seasons tried to be more serious while still being meta. I am also glad I dropped the show because the creators are both creeps.

The current strip I'm working on involves a character pulling out a script and complaining about it.

When it comes to meta cartoon stuff, I think less of "meta writing in cartoons" and moreover "meta cartoon gags". So, not Rick And Morty, but rather Tiny Toons Adventures. Here's an example from my favorite episode, Journey To The Center of Acme Acres:

A boulder comes rolling into our cast as they gasp in suspense. Jump cut to a reset button on the wall, completely displaced with no reason to be there. Buster Bunny hits the button, the crew turns into bowling pins, a converyor comes down and pulls them up as the boulder rolls past them. The situation resolved, the adventure then continues forward.

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closed Feb 25, '23

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