7 / 17
Apr 2018

(ohboyhereigo)

but seriously, can y'all please give me some feedback or reviews on my main novel? I feel like it needs a review since im afraid of going with my own flow, so...here you go
comments are appreciated! (i mean of course that's how you give feedback right)

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    Apr '18
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    Apr '18
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Please have a look at my novel witchdoctor reborn and yours is really good

Salutations!

Alrighty I gave your story a read and I've compiled some feedback for you!

So, to start with: Your Prologue. This is the introduction to your story, so it really needs to hook your audience. Unfortunately, it was a very large info-dump that didn't provide context for what came in later chapters, it was just a long rundown of the world's history. Now, I understand wanting to get all that stuff in there as best as possible, and having a storyteller start off the story isn't the worst way of doing that. However, I'd rather learn about these things WITH the characters, rather than having it thrown at me all at once.

It takes the mystery out of things to have it all explained. I like to FEEL the wonder of the characters as they realize the kind of way they live, how their world works, I want to feel what they feel when they make discoveries. In the case of your prologue, I just 'feel' like I've been in a lecture for twenty minutes. Now, all that being said, this is very endemic of first drafts. You want to get all your ideas out there as soon as you can so you don't drop them or forget something important, and that's okay! Literally EVERYONE does this at first, just get it on the page and re-arrange later. So, don't feel bad, it's all part of the process.

What I'd recommend to you, if you wanted to start with something, start with the Argreion and his wife. Maybe even start with the tail end of the story as he's talking to the kids before his wife shows up. I was more interested in the story when Argreion had someone to talk to that wasn't himself or the kids, because we'd finally be stepping out from under all that exposition. Unfortunately it didn't last long before we were being TOLD more details, rather than being shown. My suggestion is: get rid of the exposition and have us learn these facts about the world naturally, and not being told by a mentor, or told by a parent, have your character discover it, the discovery will make all the difference. (It doesn't preclude him from asking a mentor or receiving answers but, having all of this just dumped on you from the outset is a turnoff for a reader).

This brings me to another issue: Are you, the author, IN the story, or not? The reason why is because you keep breaking voice to talk to the audience. Is the story narrated, or not? As sometimes you'll be going along and again, breaking voice to make sure you're audience is listening and it's very distracting. I actually put your novel aside four times and worked on something else, because the breaking voice reminded me "Oh, I need to get my coffee going, Oh, I need to get those dishes done" because you provided me with the out and it was hard to make myself sit down again. This is not something you want your novel to do, as it essentially tells the reader: "It's okay to put me down." I'll also say that I find it impolite to a reader, as it gives off the air that you think your audience isn't smart enough to get subtle clues, so you as the author have to come in and nudge them. Now, I don't think you did this on purpose or with malicious intent at all, however, it really does feel like you're hand-holding your readers, rather than letting them draw conclusions on their own. You're telling them how to feel, rather than letting them feel, and this creates a problem, as most readers don't like being told how to feel about something. They want to make up their own mind.

This also leads into two problems which, I feel are more major: Drive-by-descriptions, and Passive Voice. Your work is rife with both and I'll explain. Part of the trouble is your use of -s versus -ed. You also tend to alternate between the two and it's distracting as a reader, when the author doesn't have a set narrative flow. (This breaks immersion.) Whenever you end your words with -s rather than -ed you instantly put yourself in Passive Voice. Now, if you're not certain what PV is, fear not! I'll explain: Passive Voice is what happens when you tell a story, instead of show one. I'll give you an example from your own novel, an unedited and edited piece, so you can see the difference:

Original: Red sits up from his bed, having just enjoyed a good dream. He stretches his arms up, yawns, rubs his eyes, scratches the back of his head, and notices the sleep lines on his arms. Damn. He must've really enjoyed that sleep.

He gets out of his bed, putting on a pair of those fluffy sandals as he does, and heads over to his bathroom. He washes his face, brushes his teeth, does more of his business, and gets out. Yeah it seems like a normal day, but Redd liked that, either way.

Edited: Red sat up from bed with a long stretch and a yawn. He rubbed his eyes and noticed the sleep lines on his arms. Must've slept pretty hard. He rolled out of his bed, slipping into a pair of fluffy sandals before heading to the bathroom. Like every morning Redd washed his face, brushed his teeth, and threw on his clothes. He took a certain comfort in the routine, mundane though it was.

In the original version, we're given a list of things that Redd does, whereas, in the edited version, we follow along with him. I was also able to take what'd once been two paragraphs and simplify them into one. Now, this is something that happens in the editing process naturally and when you get to that point, you'll likely be cutting down paragraphs a lot, like most authors do, so this is just some advice to hold on to. You have a habit of not only repeating your points from one paragraph to another, but you also repeat words within those same paragraphs, sometimes multiple times. (See how I bolded both times you said 'sleep' in the original? Sometimes in a single paragraph you'll repeat words like that three or four times. This hurts your narrative because the reader becomes aware of a pattern, and it's distracting.) You don't have to go thesaurus crazy, you just have to rework your sentences. In the edited version, I've said the same thing you did, and all I had to do was rework the paragraphs.

Now, we also ran into another snag with Redd's day to day. In Chapter one we have about three-four days where we follow him to the bus stop, we see him get on the bus and I thought we were going to go to school with him, being that, that'd be the perfect place to introduce some of these principals you brought up in your exposition. He meets kids from all over, different races, species, and he gets to find out how other kids see things, how the world is for them and learn about myths, science, etc. I was actually on board with seeing Redd's school day and learning the world from a natural learning place. Instead, we spend mornings with him only to have him come home and go to sleep and wash, rinse, repeat. I really liked it when he was getting up early for candy (as that seemed to me like it'd be pretty realistic for a kid, so I enjoyed that part) as I felt the story was going to budge.

In the beginning I just felt trapped in this loop of "He goes to school, he comes home, he goes to school, he comes home" until finally, I got to see his school day. I'll tell you something, chapter 4 is where your story REALLY starts. It puts us right in the action, he's made a new friend over a favorite candy, he meets Drass, and they rescue a girl from bullies, THIS chapter is where your story actually starts. Everything before this is filler that should be re-purposed elsewhere in your story to fill in knowledge gaps at appropriate times. Starting a story IN the action is how you hook a reader, starting us off in the thick of things, is how you grab our attention.

Having these kids meet each other, interact, THIS is where we learn about the kind of person Redd is, THIS is where we learn about the world, as they're literally in an institution for learning. Hell, it doesn't even have to be exposition here, either. Redd could have an assignment and be trying to figure out what to talk about, and you learn as he does, and so on. There's so much potential right here in this place and it all starts in chapter 4. I love how, when these friends come together, they start figuring out their dynamic, we start to see their little personalities blossom between each other as they figure out what kind of group they're going to be. THIS was your starting point.

Before chapter 4 I had NO idea that Redd was a bullied kid. I knew he was sensitive, but honestly I'd been given such a laundry list of things about him and no actual interaction with him, I had no empathy for him before chapter 4. You also don't get the sense that he's self conscious about the scars on his neck. He doesn't do self conscious things, and I'd had no clue about how he felt, just about what he did as a matter of routine. Here, in chapter 4, is where you shine. Where not only your writing improves but your story improves. We're getting to see him through class, how he interacts with his teachers, other kids, and we DISCOVER that he's 'deformed' (as his teacher put it) and thereby his lack of confidence.

When I'd finally become interested in learning about your character and his friends, you timed skipped to his adulthood without fleshing out his newly minted friendships, his relationships with his parents beyond snippets of conversations held over the years, growing a tail? Honestly from the way you started your story, I thought we'd be following a group of kids, and suddenly they're adults and I've no idea how Drass turned out, or how Naver'Is and his alien obsession went beyond social media snippets. You've literally stared your story over 4 times during the course of your novel and you keep bringing your audience back to square one.

Again, this DOES happen with first drafts, but it's very easy not to correct it, if you don't know that it's a problem. As a reader, I've had 4 false starts here and I've lost the empathy I was starting to build for Redd because he's a different person and I don't get to find out how he got there, since you started me off with him as a child. You need to decide where you want your story to take place, if you don't want to focus on his childhood, don't start with Redd as a child if you're not going to spend adequate time showing us why it's important or how it builds his character. Getting up and eating breakfast isn't character building, it's just going through the motions. Start where your story starts. By the time I got to chapter 10, all of the things we'd learned about Redd up to this point (such as his day-to-day doings during childhood, how he made his friends, the candy he liked etc.) were all moot. There was no need of them and so reading them makes no sense for a reader. (Especially because of their brevity).

It all got skipped and now he's off to college. (Also, Assassin's Creed? Your story said it was a world like ours, but not a parallel Earth? In your prologue you said it was bigger, and every place was so different and far apart that they were practically their own planets. You might want to establish if it's just another Earth from a different dimension in your description so your audience knows what to expect) So, is college going to be where his quest starts? If your answer is no, you might want to rework your novel to start closer to when the quest begins. I'm not opposed to build up, but so far in your story there's been a lot of info-dumping and no build up.

Now, like I've said, this is something that happens with first drafts. You get the story down onto the page so you don't forget stuff, just to get it written, and that's okay! It's just the writing process and everyone goes through it. The troubles with your novel are NOT exclusive to you, so don't feel bad that you have them. We ALL do it. However, not knowing about them is the bit that'll get you every time. And I will say, you DO have some writing chops. Whenever you built a scene or you had characters interacting it was great! Redd interacting with his parents, to see how much they loved and worried for him, that was great. Argreion's interaction with his wife was sweet. You're GOOD at interactions, and that's why it's such a shame we miss out on so much of it when you switch timelines and push ahead. I don't get to see these three kids forming their 'Three Musketeer' like bond on the playground, or doing things after school as kids, because you've moved on already.

You've got a strong sense of character and you're also good at making distinct ones that I can tell apart, which is great! You have incredible potential and so too does your story. To that end, I've some things for you to help you edit and make your writing chops shine! First: (my favorite tool) Editminion! This will help you identify weak prose, words that don't work, homonyms, Adverbs, etc. It can help you sure up your story. :smiley: Passive Voice. This article can help you identify instances of Passive Voice and how you can fix it.

How to start your story. This will help you determine how best to start your story so that you're in the action, in the moment, and not starting too early! Purple Prose. This will help you to understand that, in some instances it's great to be descriptive, but being overly descriptive can be just as bad and identifying where to put your powers to good use is key.

Phew! Sheesh, this was a long one. I hope that what I've been able to give you feedback on helps you in your editing and writing process. I hope these resources help you make your novel awesome. Your start might be rocky, but so is everybody's! And just like all the other writers you know, you'll have to trim down here and there, and sure up here and there. You've got the ability and a good basis down, so there's no doubt that you'll make something cool! I wish you all the best. :slight_smile:

You always give the most amazing feedback! :heart_eyes:

Dawe thank you! I'm glad that my advice has been helpful to people, it makes my day to hear that. :blush:

I've caught myself trying to think back to what you've told other people as I'm writing :sweat_smile:

Awe, that's so incredible, Peni! Hahahah I shall endeavor to keep it up, then. :smile:

OK BEFORE THIS I JUST WANTED TO SAY I was afraid before of receiving critiques because somehow my mind has...not really hardwired it to that buuuut i was afraid of receiving critiques because before i thought they were basically just
yknow
formal roasting

bUT NO DONT TAKE WHAT I SAY AS AN INSULT Im tryna say now i truly know what critiques are like and how i can use them, so thank you!

but i wanna comment
and I do agree with most of what you said but
id just like to throw in here
not in a rude way (because im afraid almost everything i say is rude now my mind may be hardwired to that)

so for the first three paragraphs
yES I AGREE THE PROLOGUE SHOULDNTVE BEEN THAT LONG But well only 15,000 characters and i have no idea how to shorten all that into one, so thank you for the advice!
Also, since most of the books ive been reading, from what I remember, use a lot of meaningful descriptions, so yes I do agree that I mightve overdone it a little. I also really like doing interactions, so again, thank you for the advice! (id also hate to be in a 20 minute boring lecture really heheh)

aaand for the "am I the author in the story issue"
well honestly i dont still see how that's, in a way, "impolite" buut maybe i haven't seen much of it from someone else's view. but really, the reason why the narrator talks that way is saved up for the ending, really. it's all part of the story, like some sort of a twist. But I do understand what youre saying! (of course i dont mean to make them feel like im telling them how to feel, but I will admit, it's in a way, on purpose)

for the grammar one, I do also agree

for the one with the chapters 1-4, i see what you're saying! and i will definitely apply the tips in future chapters, so thank you!

for where he's off to college, it;s not really where the qquest really begins, but things happen that wiill affect his life, and I do think that's where i'll be able to apply your tip on naturally finding things out! (and also where he begins to see things, as said in "Night Row" (also that chapter is a pun, youll find out why in other chapters)) (and also thank his dad for assassin's creed, you'll also find out why)

for the 4th to the last paragraph, again, i knew i shouldve sort of focused on more interactions! or rather, keep a balance between big descriptions and interactions. and thank you for thinking that i'm good at them!

ANYWAY THAT'S EVERYTHING But thank you for giving me advice and tools! and thanks for taking the time to do this! really, i will say, that this book is originally being planned to be a webcomic. see this novel really is just a way for me to put my ideas out there, since i do agree with the idea that the first one to put the idea out there owns it (i mean way way back when i was a kid, i did plan on doing something nice like comics or art where my ocs and other guys from other stuff like movies or video games come together (i was a kid ok) and, well, ready player one already exists)
problem is, i don't know how to draw good! (no statement from me is complete without a little self-deprecation)

again, thank you so much for your time, and for taking your time with this, and thanks for saying i've got potential! I'll defs apply your advice for future chapters and ill hope ill improve in my writing skills!

(and honestly im saying this not just because you took your time but just out of honesty, i wish you were my english teacher. i had to survive an entire year of false detentions and stuff)

Hey no problem! I'm happy to give feedback. :slight_smile:

I'm sorry you've had such a worry for critique. I think the reign of internet personalities doing comedy skits and roasting works has also bled into the critique world, because I HAVE seen 'critique' used as a way of berating an authors work, rather than as a tool of help. I'm sorry if that's been your experience in the past. Just know that, anyone who truly cares to see you succeed will give you criticism AND help you find a way to improve. If somebody roasts you just to laugh at you, I wouldn't listen to them.

It's always tricky knowing how to shorten or where to add details and spare them. Writing is just a constant process of "Is this where that goes?" XD And it's totally okay not to be perfect at first, because nobody ever is. I know that you're just getting your story out there and then you'll get to the nitty gritty of editing.

Ah, I was wondering about the author being in the story. I'm not opposed to the idea, but it helps to know that this is a purposeful thing rather than a future editing issue. I'd say, find a way to make the narrators voice distinct from the narrative of the story. Like, write the story in third person POV and the narrator in first, that way their language usage would be different and your audience would know immediately when it's the narrator talking versus the narrative. That'll keep your story flow smooth and your readers will get used to it.

You'll figure out your balance, and your absolutely welcome. I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. I found your interactions to be a real highlight; I think it's something you'll polish up well. Hahha it all comes down to the oldest piece of advice I think all of us have ever heard: Practice.

Now that you've said it, it makes sense that this was scripted as if it were going to be a comic. Its brevity makes sense now, which, I've written stuff like this for comics as well so, I know how sometimes you just have to get from important point to important point when you're constructing an outline. I did this for my comic and so I totally get how details can be left behind. When you edit, just remember that now its a novel, so you'll have to treat it like one as you go, and it'll help you tighten up you narrative where it needs it. (And even if you don't draw so well, you're very creative and it's great that regardless of your current artistic level, you still put your effort into your story. That's awesome to hear!)

Sorry to hear your English teacher hasn't been of much help to you. (And handing out detentions? Yeesh that's no good.) That's a shame, you'd think they'd be ecstatic that someone in their class showed such interest and love for creating work. Just keep doing what you love and I hope you get a better teacher who is more amicable.

You are most welcome and I'm glad to do it. You'll come into your own as an author and all that practice that you're getting is going to add up. Just keep loving what you do, even when it's hard. I know you're going to improve if you keep working at it. :slight_smile:

I
Really don’t mean for this
To be a boring conversation but
Thank you for replying!

I agree! Critiques are supposed to be tools for help, those that basically insult people aren’t real critics. Like your advice on interactions is literally better than hearing “yo dan u a f*ggot or smth cause Redd seems gay af”

and for the narrator part
If this story becomes popular one day (whichitwont) I hope my viewers never see this because
Well
There’s a reason our main airial dude breaks the 4th wall

Thank you for saying that! (Me putting effort even though it’s comic ideas, I mean)

yes my English teacher is literally evil a classmate of mine went to the trash can and threw something away then she thought that he came from the bathroom so she accused him of using the bathroom without permission and literally asked him to see her after classes

Thank you so much again for the kind kind words! I really appreciate it! I also hope you keep helping others, because this totes helped me. come stop by again or anytime at all!

Naw it's not boring. Hahah boring happens when I've had to sit through 3 hours of data entry and haven't eaten in six hours. Lol.

Precisely. I hope that's not feedback you've really received. If so it's utter rubbish. Whether or not the character is gay isn't always a reflection on the author, for one, for two, it also shouldn't matter. It's incidental when larger story elements are at play.

Aw, I wouldn't say it'll never get there. It'll just take time, or you'll get it finished and start up another project. Such is the way of things when it comes to art. :slight_smile:

No problem. I think it's great that you were willing to switch gears and just keep going with the story you love. Some people get so disheartened that they aren't at a certain level with art or writing and they give up the projects that they love because they feel stymied. It's always the best course to persevere in any way you can if you love something enough. :smiley:

Wow, okay that person does not sound pleasant at all. Brings me back to high school (not in a good way, either). I used to have a pottery teacher who used to stick me in early morning detention because she thought I was a Satanist. She believed that me making dragons and gargoyles out of clay meant that I was somehow worshiping the devil? (I was in a public school, mind you. No religious affiliations) so she failed me in her class, would hit me with her ruler, and would continuously break my work and pretend it shattered in the kiln. (Simultaneously giving me no grades for my 'broken' sculptures)

When I discovered this and brought it to my principals attention, she got fired and later it turned out she'd been sent to a mental institution. I've a particular dislike for teachers responsible for mentoring young people, who do cruel things to them. In her case, I've come to feel more sorry for her and less upset, as clearly something was wrong with her that she couldn't control to a certain point. The school administrators should've been paying better attention to the state of their teachers. I hope that your (seemingly former?) English teacher gets a write up if she is actively trying to bully her students. That's not acceptable.

Most certainly! And thanks for the open invitation, haha I'm sure I'll be by. :smiley:

Oh man that pottery teacher sounded like trouble
Heh but it’s nice to know and speak to someone who also understands.
And yes my English teacher iiiis kinda old yeah I’ll give her that and her methods aren’t really applicable to like, students of these generations

But I tell ya she’s not that weak. She’s old but she’s like, still strong enough to be a complEtelY saNe fUnctionaL humaN beiNg (I’m sorry if that sounded rude my entire class and a few teachers just really hate her. During the last day of her last session I literally felt like I could breathe again) apparently she isn’t fired because guESS WHAT she’s besties with the freakin assistant principal and she even straight up brings up personal stuff to insult students (once, involving a students family, don’t wanna say too much tho)

also your pottery teacher
man
if I was there
she’d probably wear a hazmat suit around me
because if it’s one thing I love besides my family and food, it’s edge
Yes, the dark and sometimes (oftenatleasttome) cringey kind

Thank you! Yeah, sometimes I get the feeling of “what if I just give up” because I literally have another novel that’s got 40+ eps and like sometimes even if I spend days writing a chapter, it doesn’t get much attention
BuT heY yeah no I’m not giving up I love this, this is my thing, this is my idea, if it’s trash then it’s trash I mean hey it’s true that we’re all like, not perfect to others, right?

And that’s okay!

I mean I guy who prefers stick men would probably like children’s drawings more than da Vinci’s paintings

I do agree, it does take time! Admittedly I sometimes get impatient, but I get reminded that, hey, it’ll be worth it someday. Thanks again!

Hahah yeah at the time I really despised her (granted I was 14 and it was easy to get ruffled when you had a teacher you thought was after you. XD ) but I will say that, as an adult I developed empathy because she wasn't in her right mind and often, when people are ill with things that affect the mind, they latch onto what gives them the most comfort, and in her case that was her religion. So, more than anything, I feel sorry for her now.

Your English teacher seems of sound mind from what you say. In which case, it's actually more cruel that she goes after kids or continues getting her job based solely on who her friends are rather than her merits. That's just too bad and it's only going to negatively impact the student body. (And seriously, she aught to know better than to degrade a student based on their family or home life. That age is hard enough as it is without the adults in your school making rude comments).

HAH, you know I wouldn't doubt it? She disliked all the kids who wore black or listened to rock. (The devil's music, and whatnot) Ah, cest la vie.

Well, bear in mind novels take a little more time to garner attention than comics do. Because they're not visual it takes longer to go episode to episode, so often you'll see the incline in comics is faster than the one in novels. Don't let this put you off, though. That's literally the nature of the beast. So long as you keep at it, engage with your audience and continue to interact on forums, your numbers will go up. :slight_smile:

Hahah there's some truth to that, lol. And yes, it'll absolutely be worth it, the act of creation itself is more the point than anything.

I KNOW RIGHT?
Sometimes before classes my English teacher would say “inhale the Holy Spirit, exhale the devil” honestly I think people would rather go with the devil than her
Well yeah your teacher had a valid reason to act that way, and I do understand
At leasT she had a valid reason, right?
Being bestiEs with the assIstanT principaL doeS nOt excUse yOu frOm usiNg stuDent’S personal liveS as insULtS
aS if sHe weRent mUch of a problem already

I agree! Novels are kinda harder to work on, since yeah, they’re not really visual, (I’m a visual learner myself) but yes, the statement don’t give up may sound corny and cliché sometimes but it’s true!
Also, the nature of the beast heheh
I like that :imp:

Oh wow that's...awkward. I mean, if you're in a public school, anyway. If you're in a religious institution that's one thing but, if you're in public school...yeah that's inappropriate and she ought to know better.

Exactly. Though I felt bad at the time, getting older and understanding that she was suffering has caused me to look on those things with more empathy for her. I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to lose a bit of yourself every day and still try to maintain your life. I can't imagine the difficulty she faced. It's sad that she lost everything and had to be institutionalized. I can only hope that she received proper care and stability in that place, something to give her peace of nothing else.

That's the second thing your English teacher is doing that's inappropriate. I understand that, as you get older you fear your relevance could fade or that you could be replaced by someone younger and newer. It seems to me she's trying to exercise her power as a way of showing her relevance and to continue prodding at her relationship with the assistant principal, maybe she's afraid of losing her job before she's old enough to retire? Or, if she is old enough to retire, maybe she's afraid of losing benefits if she didn't work for the school? Alas, I couldn't say any of that were true but, regardless she should act with more decorum if nothing else, and treat her students like what they are: People. Just young people trying to make it through a difficult period in their lives. Teenage years aren't an easy thing, and adults know this, and should be more amicable (in my opinion). Particularly if you're in a position of authority over kids.

This is very true, because you have to imagine a scene and then describe it and hope others can see what you've made in your head. It takes some finesse, that's for certain. I've found a lot of comfort in 'don't give up' over the years. It is cliche but, it's a better thing to tell yourself than 'well I suck'.

Hahaha it's one of my favorite sayings.

True, true
Well I hope that your teachers doing fine
I understand what it’s like to feel something like that relatives and all

Yeah she says she teaches with love and if we don’t think so, she says it’s crazy (look who’s talkening Hippocrates)

Heheh that’s one of mY favorite sayings

“Well I suck”

But I’ll remember that don’t give up is better
I’ll put your quote on a scroll o r something
I’ll spread your word yeah

Thanks again! :grin: