That's really cool. I'm going to try art fairs this year with prints and I'm trying to pick up as much as I can from other people who have successfully sold their pieces. Will do thank you.
Cool. I wish you good luck. Let me know how the art fair goes. I've been thinking of giving that a try as well.
Honestly I think "fine arts" is generally about as toxic a delusion as "common sense" tends to be used -- "fine arts" tends to be used as some arbitrary delineation to facilitate snobbery. Art is art; it's best not to compare one approach to another when they're both attempting to express some message or narrative through art.
As others have pointed out, it's best to just do what brings you fulfillment, especially since comic creation does require a large investment of time and effort. If you're not getting anything from it, don't keep doing it. If you need it to live, don't stop doing it! I could not face everyday life without artistic expression.
A last note: please don't view conventions as the be-all or end-all of success in comics. I tried them for a couple of years and found that they were largely wastes of time and money. Some indie artists have a great time at them and see huge success, but some don't, and it doesn't actually reflect poorly on those artists all of the time. Most conventions are not events that focus on the things many creators do, and it's hard to find an audience, especially if you're not dumbed down to the mainstream consumer level. The only convention I found worth the time was HeroesCon, and that's because of its strong emphasis on creators rather than just the same vendors and "names" you can find at any other show.
Regional availability of shows can also have a lot to do with it, as well as crowds, regional trends, and so much more. Conventions are a crap shoot -- they're completely random most of the time, unless you specifically choose one that you know is more suited to the work you're doing. Don't waste your time and money on conventions if they're not working out. Anyone who says you have to do conventions is wrong.
It's often best to find the methods and approaches that suit you and your comic. Find like-minded creators doing work and do exchanges with them. Collaborate with people. Maybe even come up with a collaborative work you can do with people so you can all get new, fresh readers interested at least tangentially in your focus. Advertise too -- that's a big help in getting more positive attention and better crowds.
Every artist deserves praise and support, but if it came all the time, it wouldn't be precious. Even the creators who are popularly thought of as successful don't get that constantly. And frankly, I haven't heard of more than a handful of the creators you've mentioned...and I don't really care to. I concentrate mostly on my work. The other work I read, when I have the time, is people I am acquainted with, whose work I know I like. I know I can engage them personally and it isn't going to be someone who's basically set themselves up on a pedestal (or been set up on one): untouchable, unengageable, uninteractive.
To be honest, I don't know that setting your sights on being the new comic to the block that seemingly everyone talks about or "respects" is a good operating philosophy. Most of the time, Sturgeon's Law is a pretty good assumption to work on, especially with things that are wildly popular. Popularity usually indicates that, at least to some extent, there's a general appeal for wider consumption that prevents a lot of things that appeal to those who aren't exactly in the mainstream.
Just my thoughts, though. Hope they're useful, sorry if they're not. I do hope you can work through this to a better place.
LOL. Meanchelle. You know, all she needs is a Starbuffs. Or five. That should fix things.
And yeah, C2050 seems to be gathering increasing steam the last few months so maybe it's starting to finally take off!
Yeah that's true.
By the way what I mean by fine arts is just stuff you put on walls. I don't mean fine arts is better than comic art, in fact I hate a lot of fine/contemporary art (see link)6 and enjoy comic art a lot more. The terms for art were just a way to differentiate them.
Also I looked at more of the work of the person that won the creators for creators grant. Her work is actually really good. The work that they showed of hers for the previews were nothing special looking but the stuff I saw on her site was really nice. She deserves it. I'm sure if she didn't get the grant, somebody else equally as good would get it but sadly there can only be one.
There should be more grants or something for comics. There's quite a few for fine arts but only one for comics right now.
I am one of your subs that stumbled upon DOADB, and totally fell in love with it. I get what you're doing and I promote it whenever I get a chance2. I try to promote everything I am reading actually!
^^^ I agree with this and being a reader to DOADB, I know what you intend to do with the character more or less. And maybe people on Tapastic are not the right audience for it? Who knows. One of my favorite comics most recently is about a widower who is glad that he doesn't have kids.3 I know, real page turner. But it is.
Everyone is offering up the same responses... some I agree with (comics are a labor of love, some are luckier than others, comparing to others, takes years, their personal take, etc).
But this is what I am going to focus on:
I know the feeling and I think what you really need is a comic buddy/support system. Do you have anyone in your life who is also passionate about comics? Passionate about making comics? Someone to geek out over stories? I've made a few friends over Tapastic that I really count on to share information about comics, merch and storytelling. I've had a blast just getting to know them personally this past year and I find that when I am depressed about my comic, or discouraged, talking to them cheers me up. I also enjoy their comics.
As far as conventions, maybe getting involved with local comic/drawing groups (or maybe starting one on your own!) can also help with table costs-- going half on a table or something. Being more involved in the indie scene somehow, getting to know local creators at your LCS might help too. There are Facebook groups for webcomic artists and indie artists that you might enjoy.
Participate on the twitter chats every Sunday, a chance to promote your work and discover comics/creators you may like.
One of the hardest things about being a creator is we want people to see and appreciate what we are creating. We want to share it and talk about it. Unfortunately, we can't control who will like our comic and when... but we can control how we promote our comic and I think getting it in front of the right people/creators/like minded people is a good first step in building an audience.
I just started getting into this web comic thing. I don't have years under my belt trying to gain an audience. There are days when I'm just tired and wondering what the heck I am doing. Am I looking at my sub count? Yeah. Do I make comparisons? Yeah. Do I get a little bewildered about some comics? Of course. But-- at the end of the day-- I really love my comic. There are good days and bad days, but I have to work on it. I have this need to tell this story and that hunger is what keeps pencil to paper despite slow growth in subs, no comments, or little interaction with readers (oh gawd a reader commented-- GIMMIE!)
Do what makes you happy-- if you're not getting what you want out of it, if it's not fun any more and you're done expressing yourself through this medium, it's okay to stop.
Hey thanks for all your advice.I really like your comic btw. I'm not just saying that. I didn't know you promoted my stuff. That's really nice of you. I'm going to have to stop being selfish and promote your stuff when I get the chance.
Haha, no worries. I promote what I like and don't expect anything in return! (it feels weird to say "hey I promoted you!" but sometimes showing that little support, is just what the doctor ordered) Glad to hear you're enjoying my comic!
And I hope that you get what you need out of this thread!
You do you, bro! (something Willie might say!)
You should quit, because that's what you feel you need to do.
I had a look through your comic, Diary of a Douchebag, and I'm beginning to understand why people aren't reading your things, nor buying your stuff at conventions.
The story doesn't set up any interesting plotline to follow - in fact, you've released barely any material for people to get really hooked on it. The content itself I also find wouldn't appeal to many people - it's like a tryhard version of 'Catcher in the Rye', except Holden is more of an asshole, parties with people too often, and all of his actions and thoughts are unjustified.
The life of a comic artist is absolute hell, and you signed up for it without reading the goddamn contract. The popular comics are only a tiny tiny tiny minority in the vast ocean of work that's out there, and most of this work has a lot of passion and time put into them. Life isn't fair, the dumb trends you see in a lot of comics aren't fair, but they work because there are even more dumb people that buy into it. Striking the balance between 'pretentious intelligence' and 'lolsofunnymeme' is extremely difficult, and takes a very very long time too get right.
Don't blame the world - all that hatred you have for everyone in reality is directed towards yourself. Of course things that are unconventional aren't as popular, but if you want to be a trend setter, step your game up, experiment, fall into insanity.
I don't care anymore though, get the hell out of here and do your fine arts shit, I'm tired of seeing reflections of myself.
You can see a lot of people here uncomfortable with your post. That is because everyone feels like you. BUT, we try not too. We know that the moment we say stuff out loud like that... it's over. It's a bad spot to be in. So all we do (if we really like doing comics) is to blindly keep going and say that it doesn't matter what other people think about our comic. Funny thing is, that is really how the successful artists have done it.
It's not that I hate making comics, it's that this industry feels toxic. It shouldn't be as bad as it is. There's rising table costs for conventions and more of a focus on pop culture instead of comics. Most people that go to conventions buy only fan art of whatever is popular or pay insane amounts of money to get the signatures of D-list celebrities that have nothing to do with comics. Most people that go to conventions barely glance at comics.
What could help comic artists more is if it was more selective on who exhibits. If it was all original art and comic work instead of fan art and toys I think it would make a big difference. The fact that people are willing to fork over large amounts of money to get a signature from a blue power ranger instead of trying to pick up new comic books is not a good sign for the comic industry.
And then if you don't go to the conventions, you try promoting your comics online for "exposure". Even if it does get likes and subscribers, it doesn't mean those people will buy your comic eventually, they just like free entertainment. It has become such a competition that people post their life's work for free on the internet just for the small chance that it will get big. Seems to me getting exposure is no different than being exposed. Seems like the only people making money I'm guessing are people running the conventions or the comic hosting sites, which I don't think it should be because us artists are making content.
Then there is so many great and talented comic artists and writers out in the world but every month at the comic stores they are all made by like the same small handful of people (fraction, hickman, bendis, etc). Bendis made civil war 2. So many comics on this site are way better written than that was but nobody else can get into that success bubble.
I know as artists we are supposed to do art for art's sake but c'mon! It's kind of whack that this is the only profession that accepts we are getting screwed over. You will never here a dentist saying he does dentistry for the sake of being a dentist or a business man doing business just because its fun. They need to make money off it as well. I don't know.
I love comics and all but the comic industry seems fucked up to me and all I'm saying is it doesn't feel worth it to me anymore. That and it seems like that there's a decent majority that doesn't like my comics anyways so why bother? I'll probably stop for awhile after this comic is done and re-evaluate what I'm doing. I'm sorry if this forum topic upset some people but seriously, though, thanks for all your comments, a lot of the stuff was good to hear.
PS: once my comic is done and it completes its story arc it's going to be the greatest comic ever and all you haters are going to have to deal with it. Peace Out!
I've followed this thread and tried to remain neutral, as I think in order to advise anyone effectively, one has to have some affection for them. As in, when looking a particular piece of art and asked to give an impression, a person always has to consider what strokes made it to understand it. People, I think are much the same. If I can't empathize, (not sympathize, as sympathy is different) then anything I have to say will fall on deaf ears.
What I'm hearing when I read your responses, and your initial post is disillusionment. The world was meant to be one way, but is another. The absurdity of its existence, that you are a part of it, interacting with it, but it will not listen, is painful. I see that too, as does everyone, I think, at some point. Camus had much to say about this, and what to do in response.
It feels like a rejection of not just what you have created, but of you individually. I get that too, but I don't think it's as severe as it may feel right now. Although I personally don't like your comic, you do have fans. Fans aren't just people who read your works, but are those you inspire, and, whether you know it or not, help to heal themselves through your expressions. In general, people are, after all, just walking wounds. What the world has done to you, it has done to everyone in varying degrees. One can never afford to forget that.
As to what to do? It's your life, but it would be silly to toss aside something that gives you joy, a sense of solidarity, and may one day reinforce your belief in your own ideals because of an existential crisis. In short, I just think you're burned out. Take some time to grieve for the world you thought it was, and then change your perspective to better fit the world as it is, then create towards your ideals. You've done it before.
I would make one change. Stop expecting people to love you. They won't. Their wounds are different. In my experience the best one can hope for is to find some gauze.
@Neil_Harrington when I go to cons(as a customer) the main reason I am there is to see if I can find a new rare artist and their comic. I dont go for panels, to see stars, or famous comic artists for that matter(though if I had chance to talk with Marc Silvestri I'd jump at it)- though I'm always on the hunt for cool Funko POP figs & gundams...lol. From the artist side, yeah tables are becoming expensive- but you cant be a starting artist only having you book out one year & be like, "I'm gonna get a table at SDCC! I'll make loads of money!"- let's be real. As a comic artist you want to pick a con/show that is going to be more of your groove and help you maximize your profit, as well as get you known. It's not gonna happen within a short span of time; like one other person said- if the goal is make money hand over fist in a short period of time, you're going to be disappointed. No success in comics happens that fast- and if it does, it usually goes by as fast as it comes if you are not equipped to handle and deal with it. And yeah with dentists- they may do it for the money, but they have to love what they do on some level; nobody does stuff entirely for money.
I've also worked at an art supply store and interacted with a lot of local famous gallery artists at one time- that's not an overnight success either. The lot of the folks I met made tons of money at galleries or through private commissions- but there was a story of how they had to bust their asses to get to the level/status where they were at now. Hearing some of those stories made me appreciate a lot of those artists; they didnt have shit handed to them- they worked hard...even if a few of them were assholes- they earned the right to be one.
Conventions are a business- they are in it for giving the fans what they want, but even more to make money. Some of them could be structured better- they are going to go with the flow of which way the comics culture goes to ensure that they make money. As much as a lot of people are starting to invest in comics once again, the industry still is feeling the pain from when the bottom dropped out in the late 90s. Right now a lot of people are looking for alternatives to mainstream comics- this is the perfect opportunity if you are a webcomics/indie artist; but it's not gonna be an easy backseat ride.
Pop culture is always going to be there...you have to convince customers that your book is better than that blue Power Ranger. If you go into things with that whole defeatist type attitude, you've already lost before you've even gotten started. I kinda feel your pain coz in certain zones, I used to be that angry, impatient artist...but I love comics so much I'll be damned if I let anything get in my way- including myself.
You ought to sell your soul to varying degrees if you wanna make decent to serious money with this.
At least what I experienced...
$100 to $200 a month in ad revenue for drawing pornographic comics (under different alias... Long nuked off the internet since my repentance...) Yeah that paid some grocery and bills but the sleep paralysis that comes with it ain't worth it. Yes laugh at me and call me crazy all you want... I am absolutely certain that sleep paralysis is caused by demons.
Sex sells. All you need is mediocre art skills and you're set.
Hot damn...this thread blew up fast!
Anyway, there's not much I can tell you OP that forum regs here haven't already told you. I will say this though. People on average tend to not give a shit about you or what you are selling them. Its harsh to hear, but its true. In fact, this plays a lot into the constant rejection many content creators both big and small go through everyday. Sometimes you can have the perfect pitch and still fail to work out the deal you wanted with somebody or with a certain company. Time is money and if somebody doesn't vibe with what you are trying to get them to buy into, oh well. Move onto the next person. Them's the breaks of a business whether you are a small time hustler or a multi billion dollar corporation.
Do you want to start a convention?
Seems like the only way to make money from comics...and even that idea is dubious.
i have a dumb comic that no one is paying attention to either. It's satirical and pervy2...and not really what people are looking for....at least in my estimation. BUT just like everyone else is saying.
Most everyone here is doing this for fun.
Your art is cool. Maybe just see if you can someone to pay you to draw their story.
I agree. I saw the title and was like "shit I've been there." The amount of times I've set standards for subscribers/views/etc. and if I didn't didn't meet them vowed to quit are ridiculous . . . Somehow you know if you persevere you'll get there so don't give up, but at the same time you know that's just an optimistic illusion and you may regret being stubborn in the future.
Sad to tell you that if you are going into comic with the intention of making a job out of it, you are pretty much set yourself up for regret and failure. Because you want money for your work, you grow impatient, and comic is one of those thing that seriously need you to dedicate as much patience as possible.
You could say I'm one of the lucky few that actually got decent pay back from my comic money wise even though I haven't been around as long as many other dedicated creator. But who's allowed to judge who should be successful? Will it be you? Me? That guy over there? No, no one can predict what will happen, and that is life for you. Everyone whine about life's unfair treatment all the time, but only those who knows to shut up, swallow down their pride and continue moving forward will succeed.
Still though, it depends on how you define "success". Is it money that matter? Then comic might not be the way to go for you. Most creators that now have comic as their full time job that I personally know and am friend of started out doing comic as a hobby too and just by luck and chance that they were discovered. Nobody (as far as I know) comes into comic and expect making million off of it right away, haven't we heard enough about the struggle of Japanese mangaka? I thought that should be classic. Why are you expecting this to be any different.
Not gonna be rude but expecting to make a living in cartooning, let alone fine arts is a shitty idea. There's no business, no need or demand for it. I learned first hand after majoring in it in highschool that i'd be living hand to mouth and making little money if I planned to make this my life dream. Might as well become an art teacher, trying to live off comics is never going to happen and trying to get into a gallery is a crapshoot.