relatability

vothnthorvaldson 2019-04-06 19:50:43 UTC #1

individuality/singularity vs legibility/relatability.
Or how to balance these notions.

I've come across this problem both as a reader and as a creator.

As a reader, I generally prefer stories with very strong individuality, in particular when it gives me some insight on who the creator is as a person. Even if it will mean some difficulties and a lot of concentration, I like being coaxed into very personal, complex or bizarre universes that make me feel like I'm actually learning rather that only be entertained; learning about other people's interests, feelings or views, but also reevaluating mine. (Said like that, it could also apply to educational comics, but I don't really read much of these).

Now, there is a very difficult balance to find here.

While I've rarely completely given up on comics for being too personal, sometimes I'm confronted with the fact they may be hard to read because their singularity makes them less accessible and restrain the window for relatability. I know relatability and legibility are concepts that are very important for marketability, and it's actually often discussed in this context on the forum, but here I'm not interested in what would make a comic accessible and relatable enough to make it marketable, but I'm placing myself at a lower level of accessibility: i.e. for people who like more singular comics, what is it that they need to make it work and accept to go on that trip, or what on the contrary what could be really off-putting.

For me, as a reader, I would say that what helps is having a strong, clear aspect to be able to hold onto. Eg: if the story is super complex and unusual, I may need the drawings to show clearly what happens (or the style to be clear and to the point for a novel), or vice-versa. I may like complex, bizarre, personal plots AND complex, bizarre, personal writing/drawing styles combined – it actually can be outstanding – but it reduces even more the window of legibility. Only a happy few will emerge as winners.

What I really don't like is when if becomes so obscure that as a reader, I feel like I'm missing most of it, like if I was reading a private joke I can't know of. It can't really be helped completely when the comic is about some topic I'm completely ignorant of, but then I would expect some additional info (even if it's off comic) to help with the global understanding of concept or universe. As a reader, I'm ready to make effort for getting a great reward.. but I don't like to feel completely left out.

Now as a creator... Well, I don't think my story is particularly obscure, but it is very personal in the choices of influences, references, homages; and I already removed a lot of the ones I thought would be too obscure/private-joky. But then I get some readers finding almost all of my references, which make me think I can go further with those.. and then realize that if I do that, I may fall out of legibility (For eg. I removed a reference/joke that can only be understood by people who would both know well 20th century German literature AND 2010' heavy metal. Ok, this specific case is a really extreme one, but you see what I mean). Now I wonder if I should let these references as long as they don't obstruct the story, for who wants to look for them. But how to know when it's too much? How to know when it does start obstructing the story?

I'll be happy to hear your feelings on any of these points

moop 2019-04-06 20:59:40 UTC #2

For me I think the balance can be helped by characters, if characters are relatable and I can understand their place in the complex world and their intentions/motivations then the comic is much more readable, or I’m emotionally invested enough to try and understand it. And by relatable I mean is the character experiences some essential human emotion/experience or has specific yet understandable flaws, not necessarily that the character is super basic/cliche.

Even if I don’t understand all of the references, as long as I understand Character A is doing X because Y then it’s fine. Plus, if your story is really engaging and you mention like “the part in this chapter is based off of (reference)” readers might go and look into that themselves because you sparked their interest in it. Sometimes when I rewatch shows I liked when I was a kid, I catch 70s/80s pop culture references that I didn’t before because these shows were created by people who grew up in those eras. As a kid, I still enjoyed the shows without understanding those jokes, and now when I go back to rewatch I do so with a better understanding of the content.

vothnthorvaldson 2019-04-06 21:31:24 UTC #3

Thank you for your answer!

That's the ideal situation

That's a great example. I can think of so many creative works that let me discover their full value only over time, a few movies, but novels in particular. But my first reading (as a kid, or as a younger adult) was captivating enough to make me re-read it at a later stage of my life.. and discover all what I missed at first read. And some books still provide novelty after 10-15 readings.

So, 2 levels of understanding, with the lowest level kept clear and interesting. I'll keep that in mind.

eristeine 2019-04-06 23:32:12 UTC #4

I find that most people, even in complex fantasy universes, usually find relatability in characters. Which makes sense, I guess, since characters are oft the main focus of most readers and are often the anchor-point of familiarity inside a foreign universe. What makes them relatable is something I have yet to completely suss out lmao this one's been stumping me too.

Cause relatability kind of....varies, per person. I can't really relate to most high school dramas because my experience just didn't include lockers or cheerleaders or even long hallways.or detention. Instead I found it in situations - bullying and horrid teachers and what have you, and I hazard that the same concept can be applied to any medium of story? If I gave you a story based on my ocuntry's local folklore, it's audience would mostly be fellow countrymen, but I could guess that you'd find relatability in characters and their situation - like a teenager struggling to find their independence. But even that works in a scale. Because most people wouldn't click on it if they couldn't find relatability in the thumbnail alone. "Ooooh Philippine mythology? Pass, not for me."

I guess what I've managed to suss out is that so long as you have an anchor for familiarity, no matter how complex your universe, you'll have a good point of familiarity that can draw in and make readers stay.

keii4ii 2019-04-07 00:05:15 UTC #5

In my (limited) experience, it works like this: there's a secondary audience for that stuff, people who are drawn to your country's folklore because it's new to them. It's exotic to them. They may find it enjoyable to read, but the way they enjoy it may be very different from the way you/ others from your country enjoy it.

That's been the case with my comic. To Koreans, the sceneries feel nostalgic and earthy. But to others, especially Western folks, the comic feels exotic and fantastical; it evokes curiosity and excitement rather than nostalgia and warmth. TBH this saddens me a lot. The bulk of my audience will never experience the story the way it feels to me. But there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about that...

eristeine 2019-04-07 00:27:42 UTC #6

Oh, true! As well as the point about how people will enjoy it differently than intended: though we yeah, we can't do much about that since the readers don't exactly have our experiences.
(TBH it'd also be an interesting point to see how people can exchange foreign culture with each other using comics as a medium.)

vothnthorvaldson 2019-04-07 01:09:27 UTC #8

Oh, I really like this example of the folklore. It illustrates very well what I'm both excited and worried about.

Yes, some situations are universal, and having them in a setting that is not the reader's most relatable setting make these situations even more universal, without losing on the relatability. And personally, as a reader, I would be even more attracted to such story, because there is a kind of comfort coming from feeling close to characters in less relatable settings - Especially for me who never felt I belonged anywhere.

And that's where there are also different types of unrelatable settings. Both the high school drama and the Philippine mythology are not directly relatable to me, but the second one would attract my attention (probably because I expect it to be rich, dense and deep (interesting 'unrelatable' setting), in contrary to the high school drama which I would expect to be more superficial and not likely to be dense and rich (offputting 'unrelatable' setting). Obviously, this is a quick judgement, and depending on individual stories, it could go the other way.

But then:

My point of view of someone who loves reading things from different countries:

It is unavoidable that the local reader and the international reader will get a different feel. I would even say it can happen within a small area. I'm originally from France, not that big country, but a lot of my childhood experiences were difficult to understand for my university friends, 150 km further west. They had no German influence, I had a lot of that, and that was enough to bring a certain difficulty to understand child age nostalgia, because that's not things that can be learnt. We were, however, totally able to discuss cultural difference, accents etc, because that, can be learnt.

But I don't think there is necessary a gap as big as you fear, Keii4ii, at least for the attentive international reader. Not feeling deep nostalgia for something, because one did not live these things, does not mean that one can not guess the story speaks of nostalgia.

One of the first work that comes to my mind when I think of nostalgia is the Malgudi series by RK Narayan. It takes place in an imaginary Tamil city in the 1940'. I was born in 1980 and I've been in Tamil Nadu only after reading these books. So not necessarily the most relatable. But these books gave me the strongest feeling of nostalgia I have ever experienced with fiction. And when I finally went in TN... modernization aside I felt home right away.. because this series did such a good job bringing to my ignorant mind exactly all what was important to understand from the atmosphere of this place.. maybe in a little bit naive and slightly superficial way, that could explain how easy it was for a foreigner to understand.. but behind this apparent superficiality, that deep nostalgic feeling and the strength and accuracy of the description of the atmosphere gave just enough depth to be a lasting experience, that also had pertinence in the real modern world.

I'm getting maybe a bit off topic, but to be more concise, I think it's totally possible to make readers feel strongly connected in a meaningful way to stories set in a place they don't know at all.

I do think the reader has a big responsibility in that, though. If the reader comes with the idea of getting cheap, superficial, exotic entertainment, that what they will get from the story, even if said story is actually rich and deep.

keii4ii 2019-04-07 01:57:05 UTC #9

Ehhhhhhh, depends. I didn't think the intended meaning/feel of my story was hard to understand, until I actually started hearing from people who completely missed it. Some of them thought the feel-y elements were watering down what was supposed to be an exciting fantasy epic. Others weren't even aware that the feel-y elements were there.

The setting being a big factor in that is not a random fear. It's a conclusion I've drawn after literally years of questioning What Am I Doing Wrong???™ X'D

(The story isn't about nostalgia; the nostalgia just sets up the right tone. But that's a tangent of a tangent.)

Ultimately, I just have to accept that my story is niche. Not everyone will get it, and there's nothing to be gained from trying to appeal to those who won't. Can't make everyone happy.

My ultimate target audience is my hypothetical taste twin, someone who shares my tastes and has comparable life experiences but has no insider knowledge of the story. I aim to cater to that hypothetical person. That person needs to get it, FEEL it, fall in love with it. That's what my story is meant to do. If that results in an underwhelming/unappealing read for others, then that's too bad.

So I guess that's my personal goal with regards to the discussion. The story should be understandable to someone completely new to it, as long as they're the right audience.

vothnthorvaldson 2019-04-07 03:50:47 UTC #10

Oh, I can understand you feel that way about your specific story, because you found out that's the perception of a share of your readers.

I was merely saying it is not something necessarily problematic, and that that difficulty to understand an unfamiliar setting is certainly not a foregone conclusion. The majority the literature I read and the music I listen to has nothing to do with my cultural background.

100% ok about the right audience. After, I suppose it's to every person to decide how small the right audience can be for the story to be worth being told (I would personally be fine with 'very small' but that may be because I'm writing a lot for myself too - athrough having at least some audience is important too).