Is mathematics useful to you in your art?

[DokiDokiTsuna]

• No
• Yes
• Li'l bit

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Now I know someone's gonna go off and do it anyway, but I'm not talking about that stuff they dredge up all the time to "prove" that math and art are intrinsically linked, like "ooh, the Golden Ratio! Fractals! Gauss! Bezier!"

No. I'm speaking practically here. As in, do you actually use learned math skills, not just tools created from the work of mathematicians, to create art?

I'd have to vote 'li'l bit', but only because of proportions...like when I'm resizing a canvas into a certain aspect ratio. I know there's probably some more intuitive way to do it, but I can never remember what it is, so I always have to write it out like (1000/300)=(x/970) and cross-multiply, the whole nine yards.
But...apart from doing that once in a blue moon, the answer would be no.

Although here's why I'm asking: apparently people use math for proportions/perspective?? And I'm really intrigued to hear how that works from anyone who actually does it, because ngl that sounds like hell. o_o Just drawing out a full grid is too much work for me; I can't imagine doing that and then doing individual calculations to figure out where stuff should be...

The only way I could see it being feasible for the average person is if it's just basic ratios...like, "oh, the hand is supposed to be 3 times wider than the face and instead I made it 2 times wider and that's why it looks weird"... I could see people doing that.

(P.S. I know sometimes I sound like a math-hater but really I'm not; I actually enjoy math in and of itself. I just hate a lot of things surrounding it, like the bubblegum-broccoli way people try to use it to appeal to students: like just because I'm an artist I should be excited about the fact that fractals exist, and should therefore be excited about polynomial series or whatever loosely-related BS they're trying to shoehorn in. T_T Math-bait does not work; to anyone who's past primary school it's just pointless and insulting...)

[ble]

I can't use something I never understood that to this day is probably my second source of nightmares, after big insects / arachnids.

I can see it's useful in art...for people whose brain doesn't freeze when they hear the word "math", like engineers, architect,s or fractal artists, but that's not my case.

[DiegoPalacios]

In comics, is a bit useful, but i don't do big calculations..... i am currently using math to calculate ways to increase my eficiency in making pages and to figure where i am taking more and learning what could be improved. For example, i realized a big part of the time i am spending it on shading, so if i figure a way to reduce the time while keeping the quality, the page development progression, it could mean an insane increase in speed.....

[PlsDelMe]

bubblegum-broccoli way people try to use it to appeal to students: like just because I'm an artist I should be excited about the fact that fractals exist, and should therefore be excited about polynomial series or whatever loosely-related BS they're trying to shoehorn in. T_T Math-bait does not work; to anyone who's past primary school it's just pointless and insulting

Just a few select professions really need advanced math, everything else just need the basics, then you have a whole generation ditching barbie, and hot wheels for youtube, it's hard to convince them that math is fun, and / or useful, that's why math-bait is a thing, their target audience is younger kids than you.

(I don't hate math either, actually I was really good at it, I even won a math school competition twice, but it's useless asf in my day job now lol)

[rajillustration]

Perspective is entirely based on Geometry, so if you get a good grasp on Geometry, and if you're good at doing Geomoetry proofs, you'll get a good grasp at how to do technical perspective.

[But_a_Jape]

The most frequent occurrence I have with using math is trying to determine how large to make certain panels of my comic relative to the whole page. Like, "I want this panel to take up about 1/3 of the height and 2/3 of the width" then use the measuring tool to get around that size. I'm sure there's probably functionality in the program I'm using to do this more automatically, but I didn't want to bother trying to figure out if it was there.

Also, since Webtoon's dimension limits are 800x1280, I end up doing a few calculations with my pages to figure out the best way to divide them so when I scale them down and cut them up to fit the limit, it still looks good (i.e. I don't accidentally cut in the middle of a panel and risk a visible gap during the upload). I like my pages to be varied in length, so I can't just make a static template that always scales down neatly for Webtoon. None of what I said is any more complex than basic arithmetic, but it's something.

Also, a number of my gag comics have references to some sort of historical or literary trivia, every now and then a mathematical reference will make its way into a premise. Though so far, I've only done one that's based on Zeno's Paradox of Motion, but I don't know if that necessarily counts as applying to this topic. I'm sure I'll probably make a few more in the future relating to various mathematical ideas and quirks.

Math-bait does not work; to anyone who's past primary school it's just pointless and insulting...

Eh, I think people can have their imaginations sparked by anything at any age, sometimes they just need to see it at the right moment at the right point of their lives. What you see as "math-bait" I see as just re-contextualizing ideas in a way that may make it more interesting to someone who otherwise wouldn't have been interested. Happens in every field, not just mathematics. Doesn't sound like they've worked for you, but I feel like I've seen it work on people older than primary school age a few times before, and I'd even say it's worked on me a few times too.

then you have a whole generation ditching barbie, and hot wheels for youtube, it's hard to convince them that math is fun, and / or useful, that's why math-bait is a thing, their target audience is younger kids than you.

Let's not make this a generational thing - I don't think any generations have had an easy time making everyone find math interesting. I see no reason why an interest in YouTube would be less mathematically stimulating than Barbie or Hot Wheels.

[PlsDelMe]

I see no reason why an interest in YouTube would be less mathematically stimulating than Barbie or Hot Wheels.

Ok then, my bad, change youtube for smartphones, older generations hated math too, but they didn't have apps that solve all your math problems, and infinite entertainment at your fingertips.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Eh, I think people can have their imaginations sparked by anything at any age, sometimes they just need to see it at the right moment at the right point of their lives. What you see as "math-bait" I see as just re-contextualizing ideas in a way that may make it more interesting to someone who otherwise wouldn't have been interested.

I dunno what you're thinking about; maybe it's another strategy for getting people interested in math that actually makes sense. But what I call "math-bait" is inherently nonsensical, not just unappealing, and that's why I say it doesn't work.

It's like that little preface in one of my (university-level...) textbooks talking about how calculus is used in the software that people use to make graphics for video games.

It's a cute thing to say, but ultimately meaningless: we're not making 3D models in this class or anything even remotely close to that; we are going to write numbers and that's it. And artists who use the aforementioned software don't do any of the things we're going to do; I highly doubt they touch any math at all during their daily work. Imagine selling software that forced people to solve differentials in order to use it; you'd be laughed out of the building...

The disconnect between the "real-world example" and the actual subject matter is so huge and so obvious that it's just plain annoying, and it really doesn't serve much purpose (other than to allow an author to say that they made the text 'relatable', I suppose). =/

I guess if it works for you that's cool, but I don't really see the point. I mean, I've been using Gaussian blurs for years, and I didn't even realize Gauss was a mathematician until a couple months ago. To say that my work as an artist and his work are related because of that just sounds like pretty words to me.

[rajillustration]

And artists who use the aforementioned software don't do any of the things we're going to do; I highly doubt they touch any math at all during their daily work.

They do a lot of math. Like a crazy amount of math. For doing 3d work, you're either on the pure art end, where you do mostly painting and modeling (that's where I liked to hang out when I studied that stuff) or you're on the math end, where you're doing everything else that makes it move. The cool looking physics stuff with many variables that involve...so much code that the really good people will often write themselves.

So yes, they do use calculus. Those animation programs have to do a lot of procedural generation and stuff like that, and a lot of hair physics, wind physics, and other physics. Is it as intense a calculus as your calculus class? Not really, because you can input things into the computer. But, a lot of artists who are very good, are that way because they can reverse-engineer the code.

[darthmongoose]

I'm not a person who finds maths fun in and of itself, but I find the things I can make with maths extremely rewarding, useful and fun.
In my work as an illustrator, the most common uses for maths I'd say are: Working out bleed/trim//safety zone and then stuff like page count for print, but also it factors massively into the financial side of freelancing. You need to work out an hourly rate for commissions, look at what's a viable bulk discount for clients, calculate an appropriate cost to sell your products for the per-unit cost and make earnings forecasts, decide on approximate labour and equipment cost when calculating targets on kickstarter and patreon and whether that's feasible given your average readership size... Oh god and don't even get me started on doing those tax returns and working out all your expenses for travel, materials, insurance and stuff! I used to run a lot of workshops back in the day and that was a big deal, but when I was working more on illustration work from home I had to calculate how much I could claim back on rent and bills for working from a home office because I was running my own business. So yes. It's not necessarily fun, but it's definitely necessary to have basic skills like addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and being able to work out percentage, average, mean and do basic algebra if you want to be an effective freelance illustrator... and the vast majority of pro illustrators are freelance; in-house jobs are rare and almost nobody can afford an accountant to do this stuff for them.

Outside of illustration though, maths features heavily in making games; tabletop or video. Even if you're just a 2D games artist, you'll probably need to learn stuff about proportion and the like, because there are often some rules about the assets you make and their size or resolution, especially if you're making the UI. The more of making your assets usable for the coders without them needing to sort of stuff like sizing and resolution and the like, the more valuable you are as a games artist. If you can be trusted to just open up Unity and set up the UI on a canvas, you are so much more useful than an artist who can make very pretty looking assets but then somebody else needs to spend hours making them actually function. If you work soley in 2D, you'll almost certainly be expected to have some animation or video editing skills, which feature maths for timing.

[Puck]

Geometry was part of our math classes and that´s the only thing that´s helpful for me, I didn´t learn that in school though because school was the most boring episode of my life, uninspired teachers, uninspired kids

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Not really, because you can input things into the computer. But, a lot of artists who are very good, are that way because they can reverse-engineer the code.

See, I figured it was something like that. It would be useful to know these things if you're one of the people who create visual effects from the ground up for future people to use...but of course, no one ever talks about that, because it's not as cute as just saying 'video games'...

[GloamingCat]

Yes, mostly from the experience in video games and computer graphics. The 3D physics part of CG was particularly useful for stuff like shading, perspective, camera effects, different kinds of materials. Knowing procedural art for 2D was also very handy to generate patterns and use/create filters to get the result I want.

The experience with CG was nice because my artistic intuition helped me code 3D scenes (I knew when code was making sense or not based on what I learned from art), and later my coding and theoretical knowledge helped me improve my art (I could see when something was mathematically inaccurate, and simulated the code/physics in my head to correct it).

[thecrystalrook]

yes, geometry and trig are both useful in drawing symmetrical backgrounds for me. I've always got a ruler and protractor on hand, plus a little SohCahToa when I need it