Is so-called "Asperger" really a disability?! (flood, rant and giant info dump about my personal life, which you probably didn't want to know)

[unknown_user]

From what I know, "Asperger's syndrome" is not a synonym to "high-functioning" autism, despite they have close meaning. But yes, people from side, probably, don't notice difference, cause it's subtle.

[Rasp]

I have Aspbergers and.... well. I've pretty much given up. Pretending I'm Normal (TM) is just... ugh it was horribly toxic and made my life even more full of anxiety and depression. I don't much care what people think of me anymore and that's.... really helped.

I used to be prideful pretend my disability would just go or away or that with discipline or time I'd grow out of it. But ultimately it lead me to a place where I nothing left to lose.

I gave myself a choice there. Embrace my inevitable death... or just do my best to enjoy myself and not give a damn if I have to live at home and cash disability checks. Picking the latter allows me to do the one thing that actually matters to me: Spend my time trying to bring joy to others. If I can make someones day more enjoyable then at least there's that.

I feel less like burden than ever before because at least I'm doing something worth a damn.

I was given a choice between my heath and my pride and I went all in on the former because the latter wasn't worth holding onto if it meant eternal misery. I know I'm a better person today for that choice. Full stop.

[vothnthorvaldson]

It's not about been too harsh with myself. It's about having failed to do what I wished to do in my life, over and over and over, becaise of my condition. About being constantly frustrated by my limitations. You don't see how difficult my life is, by seeing me on the Internet (which is the place I feel the best).
I can't use a phone. I can't go somewhere if it's not planned a lot in advance. I completely freeze if there is too much noise in a public space (very handicapping for everyday life, already, but imagine what it means for someone who's main passion is music). I cannot speak with people IRL if there is not a planned reason to. I work with people one day a week. It takes the whole rest of the week to recover from it. Generally the first two nights, I can't sleep or have horrible nightmares. I also feel like I'm decaying and have maggots crawling on me when I interact too long with a person (even if I like them).

My stimming is almost incessent leg movements, rocking or arm flapping, and also hand bitting and trying to strangle myself (that last one not everyday, but enough that it show marks that further reduce my opportunities to go out of the house.

There are many conditions considered as handicaps that I would prefer having than that one, so why not calling it an handicap?

(Edit: I should add that I'm actually not entirely independant. Because of my problems with interacting with people, I was never able to take care of any administrative task or bills. My parents did it when I was in France, then a friend, then my spouse. A small amount of time I had to do it myself and I ended up having debt collection issues )

[DiegoPalacios]

I'm old enough to remember when they literally would try to force you out of being left handed/ambidextrous in school settings because it wasn't the norm. Times change... Understanding increases.

My brother was during that time that people were taught to be right handed from a really early age. He tought he was clumsy because he didnt realized he was left handed until a professional noticed. (saw the way he grabbed a pencil). The good thing is that because of that, he started working his left too and he became ambidextrous. This allowed him to do really cool things like writing with both hands at the same time, play ping pong with 2 paddles and becomming a natural when it comes to fighting with 2 swords in kenjutsu.

[unknown_user]

But, after I was diagnosed, I was treated differently in school, people acted as though I were mentally handicapped and incapable of understanding certain things. I was not, I understood things fairly easily, my only issues were social cues.

Well, that's the worst thing. If a person allow themselves to talk this way with me, I immediately stop being polite with them, inrerupt them abruptly and demand to speak only on business without prelude and lyrical digressions. Once I also asked mockingly: "Why are you talking so slowly? Are you ok?". I show them all of my arrogance in return as well and end the talk as soon as I learned everything I wanted to know. If during this I forced that person feel uncomfortable, I feel gratified.
Of course, it's more complicated, if a person, who is doing it, is higher than you in hierarchy. But I never respected hierarchy and am doing the same anyway, maybe just less brazenly.

(All occasions when people behaved like this with me, happened if they didn't know me closely, but already managed to talk with me at that moments, when I was deep in thoughts and reacted to their words with delay. Which made them think that I'm stupid (?). OR if they found me at that moment, when I was worryed by a reason, they found "ridiculous" or behaved naively (in their opinion) in any aspect.).

I'm not going to work or to interact in any other way with people, who allow themselves that kind of attitude. So, if people will start to do this at work, I will not attend that work anymore. My comfort is more important.

[LittleMissDevil]

I am a social worker and do work with people on the autism spectrum as well as other disabilities. There is a huuuuge debate about what "disability" even means. The conversation in moving away from thinking of "disability" as something inherent to the person with for example medical issues and more over to seeing society as the factor that disables/handicaps people. Which is why becoming more accommodating for people with different needs is so important. The conversation is really relevant and everyone is coming to different conclusions, the example of the deaf community came up.

This is also why more and more special programs are popping up to get people with disability help in the job market.

That aside, with autism it really really depends on the severity. I personally do work with a person diagnosed with Aspergers who needs supervision (living in a residency) and couldn't handle the stresses of a typical job. I would not really consider him "disabled" but he definitely is not able to live a "normal" life, which in it of itself is not a bad thing. That's not saying this applies to you, I just want to be clear about where my opinions are coming from.

I think you already have a pretty clear grasp on your problems, be they because of autism or not. And you are handling your life well without a diagnosis. It is not necessary for you to get it, but I would still advice to do so. It would open your access to certain resources which you can then take or leave as you please. You already said it, people with autism can learn social skills as much as anyone, but people tend to be really stupid in explaning them. People without autism just kinda assume you get it, because that's how they did it.

I totally understand being a afraid of a stigma und not wanting to be the "special case" in your workplace. That's 100% your decision to make. A lot of people can be assholes and might be. But from my experience it can help other people understand what's going on and just be a bit more relaxed and even attentive if they know (I suffer from depression and let my coworkers know, when I'm having a bad day). I think it's a god thing that workplaces are more accommodating now and it is not a bad thing to realize you might have different needs from others, while still killing it at the job.

Thing with disability is: a person in a wheelchair would not pass up a job opportunity because there was a ramp for him and he thought he should be able to walk up there. And a job with special accommodations for people with autism is the same essentially. Just a ramp for the brain sometimes to reduce certain stresses.

But yeah, you don't have the diagnosis yet, so maybe start there (or not) and figure out the rest on the way. Might be helpful to know for sure. Weather or not you choose to do it, you have been doing good in learning and adapting with friends from what you wrote, so that's awesome.

[unknown_user]

I'm sad to hear that you have so many difficulties. I wish I could help, but I don't know what can be done with it.
What I can suggest, is to try online education courses. Nowadays, courses on all topics are available in the internet. You can get a degree this way or learn a new profession. You can give it a chance if some day you'll get tired from farm work ✿ڿڰۣ—
If the course will be connected with physics (of school level or first year of university), Python, C C++, algorithms or any kind of math, I will be happy to help (or, at least, I'll try).

Edit: I should add that I'm actually not entirely independant

Ah. Me too. I already told, that my life consist from periods, when I work and get moderate or high salary, and from periods, when I don't work and go into debts. They alternate each other again and again. "Bad" periods are usually conjugated with deterioration of my physical and mental health. Then, I also have to accept some financial help from parents (much less than a salary, when I work, but enough for simple food and stuff), even if it hurt my pride, I don't like it and don't want to be in debt to them, because I know they will reproach me for it in the future. And sometimes to borrow from friends.
But I see positive dynamics with time. I gain new skills, learn to work better and receive more money from work. So these money are enough to cover longer un-employed periods, than before. Also I learn how to choose that work format, which will be less exhausting and more convenient for me. Parcitularly, for now I found freelance and contracts much more comfortable than full time, for me personally. I think, I'll eventually will find more comfortable working graphic and tempo this way, which will allow me to work in more soft regime, without big hiatus, even if I don't feel so well. I also investigate a ways to make my medical expences more bearable. I investigate thoughtfully, which kind of help I can get for free or for small money with more-or-less acceptable quality. I also investigate alternatives to expnesive medical drugs. I believe, that going in this direction, I'll become fully autonomous financially in a couple of years.

[DiegoPalacios]

You already said it, people with autism can learn social skills as much as anyone, but people tend to be really stupid in explaning them

Most people takes social skills for granted, so they think it`s so obvious they keep them implicit and assumes everyone knows these "unwritten rules".

This means that people don`t bother explaining things like why a certain tone of voice makes a listener think you are angry or why in certain contexts a dirty joke is a terrible idea, but in others it can be fun.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Online courses is a good idea! Actually, I'm currently trying to go back to uni, with mostly online classes, but a few on campus too. For now I think of only taking Arabic and Bengali, which has no point for me on a job point of view, but I'll see if I can manage, if yes I may take a job-oriented class.

Ah, my issue is not to generate money (I'm not great at it, but I have rather small needs (except the traveling, I'm pretty frugal).
The problem is actually paying the bills (even if money is there) or doing the administrative paperwork.
Now there is a lot of things doable online, but if some phonecall confirmation is needed, I can't do.

[GesuGesu]

Well, Asperger's is simply part of the autism spectrum. The closest definition we can find would be high-functioning, but yeah, I agree that's it's not the same thing.

[sarrowsmith10]

That's valid. You know you better than anyone. Of course I've been in jobs were the people around me were absolute jerks and I'm neurotypical. Its possible that it was just a bad and toxic work place and it wouldn't have mattered what your peculiarities were. I really do hope that you find a job that fits you and people get along with you.

[NeonKnight]

i might have asperger too, and it is indeed a disability, beacuse even when you could have a greater inteligence than others you( maybe we) lack the ability to "proper" comunication with others. Also others may take your words as too childish or violent, and even if it doesnt seem like a big deal this brings a lot of misunderstandings that can ruin your life, such as losing friends, jobs, potential partners, and fights with the family of one, and living on a unhealthy loneliness, some amount of being alone is nice, but to be all the life isolated cant be healthy to me (even if i enjoy such thing, there are moments that i wonder if im making something wrong or exagerated) im not diagnosed yet but it is a disibility in the country i live. In a comunicational world, having problems to comunicate with others its a big problem, since (Stupid asf thing to me) others value words over abilities, inteligence and even values.
From my experience you can be outcast in every aspect of life and suffer a lot because of this.

[unknown_user]

Pretending I'm Normal ™ is just... ugh it was horribly toxic and made my life even more full of anxiety and depression. I don't much care what people think of me anymore and that's.... really helped.

Yes. Pretending "normal" is very exhausting. Even if I do it rarely - when I go to the job interview or when I talk with officials, that stuff, it's still unpleasant and makes me tired and depressed. Finally, I realized that I should strain myself less and find better balance, better compromise between being myself and pretending for reaching my goals (getting a work, or an official document or something else).
I still have to keep myself in some boundaries on job and study. I'm trying to find a compromise here, too.
In personal interactions, I behave naturally. I don't think much about what people think about me, if it doesn't directly influence my education process or paycheck.
The best thing for me is to find mutual understanding with people and go toward compromises instead of torturing myself for play a "normal" to people, who will not evaluate it anyway. It's unfair, that to pretend being a "normal" I have to try to hard, while they don't do anything. I don't want to build my personal relationships with such an asymmetry. It doesn't worth it. Instead, if I'm interested in person, I suggest them to move toward understanding mutually. We explain things to each other and stuff.

I gave myself a choice there. Embrace my inevitable death... or just do my best to enjoy myself and not give a damn if I have to live at home and cash disability checks. Picking the latter allows me to do the one thing that actually matters to me: Spend my time trying to bring joy to others. If I can make someones day more enjoyable then at least there's that.

It's good that you are doing what brings you joy. I hope you'll succeed in it.
However, it's not an option for me. Even if sometimes I may feel well, when I'm spending several days without talking with anyone IRL, I still regularly need social interactions. Even if more rarely than others, but I do need them. I regularly feel a need to go and meet new people / potential partners; to talk with old friends or current boyfriend; to discuss and share stuff, connected with my interests and life.
Worse, I'm a proud person and can't tolerate if someone shows condescension to me. I know that I have a peculiarities in some social interactions. I know that some of these peculiarities are objectively bad (in sense, than they sometimes prevent me from reaching my goal in social interaction). But in the same time, I don't think it gives people a right to talk this way to me. Maybe I have problems in my behavior and way of thinking. Maybe I don't understand some things, which they do, but they also don't understand some thing, which I understand. So, while I'm recognizing my flaws, I don't think I'm lower than anyone, who doesn't have them. I'm UNABLED to do all the same things, as they do, even if sometimes I need extra explanation or more individual approach.

P.S. In my country cash disability checks are more than 10 times less than potential ML researcher's salary, and they are given to only to people with low-functional autism from what I know. (They are ridiculously low anyway)

[NickRowler]

People can have a disability without it being debilitating. It's still something they have and it is still real.

However, I do find diagnosing people with Aspergers sort of problematic and dated. And I am not the only person who thinks this, a lot of schools are moving to instead label kids as having communication, behavior and/or language issues so that treatment can be more targeted. EDIT: Aspergers stopped being diagnosed in 2013 and most new evaluations are labelled as autism-spectrum.

I know that a lot of adults are obsessed with labels and going hard in with being called Aspergers despite them growing out of a lot of the issues they had when they were first diagnosed as a child. I was diagnosed with Aspergers as a child but as an adult I was reevaluated and was told that I don't have it, which I guess happens (shrugs). But then again, I feel like everyone I meet acts like they have Aspergers, am I crazy?

Labels are labels, and if you do not want to identify as Aspergers fine, that's up to you. I don't really use it, I mostly tell people I have anxiety and auditory processing disorder.

[indagold]

There's extensive scientific research to show autism/aspergers is a disability (aspergers has been removed anyway from the DSM) and there's brain studies and neurological imaging to prove it. My friend who has it suffers daily and would not wish it onto anyone.

I really wish this mindset can not exist because it's hurting people with more severe disabilities (and people with severer forms of autism who struggle to function) because i'm now seeing people tell me that i'm not disabled and I should enjoy my disability...I have bipolar, i'm far more likely at risk for dementia and thats not even covering how devastating a relapse could be for me and my wellbeing. I wish we had a more awful word for disabilities l cause I see no happy future for me as much as I wish (my future is just going to be disaster prevention). I don't like seeing people with mild disabilities talk over me because they have a better life. This toxic mindset needs to be gone because its hurting people who don't have a voice, those who are severely disabled.

[unknown_user]

1. First of all, I didn't notice anyone who said that you should enjoy your problems or not doing anything about it. It's ridiculous.
2. Bipolar disorder is a disorder, not a disability. In many cases, it can be treated, or, at least, mitigated. It's not forever.
3. I understood, that autistic features can be expressed stronger or weaker and in different ways. It's an arguable question - to decide, where to put a threshold, after which a disability starts. But I also believe that if person doesn't consider themselves as disabled, it's their own right. You know better your own problems and are you disabled or not. And me too.

[baasinsimple]

Well, disability within itself is just a term used to identify a problem one may have due to a condition, I have early onset arthritis, though that's not the official name, and I can't draw for very long because of it. Hell every single time I move my hands in a certain way, it sounds like wood's cracking inside my body, considering that, in some way it's just a "disability", because I have the inability to do certain things as quickly as others.

For Aspergers it may be considered a disability because you miss out on social ques and other things that come from being on the spectrum, but it doesn't exactly limit most people, of course I can see how being considered disabled in some way can be offensive but the term is still medically applicable in most countries, since the brain is just wired differently, that may hamper certain aspects of a person's life. Hence, dis-able. Or that's the reasoning, I personally just kind of own the fact that I can't do certain things as well as others, but that may be harder for others.

[NickRowler]

Bipolar disorder is a disorder, not a disability. In many cases, it can be treated, or, at least, mitigated. It's not forever.

This is not true. Bipolar disorder can be very disabling for those who do not have access to proper treatment. It is not really something that is treated and gone forever, it is more like it is managed so that someone can function normally. There are people who have found a plan/treatment so that they can function normally (or at least seem to from an outside perspective), but that doesn't mean that the bipolar is gone, it just means that person can just manage it better. I am saying this as someone who has a brother with bipolar and knows how it can effect interactions, schooling, living environment, etc.

[Iris-Grimoire]

My parents self-diagnosed me for Aspergers some years ago and for a while it was pretty bad to have them suddenly treat me differently for something they had no evidence for and changed nothing. That disappeared and reappeared recently when they started acting like me having aspergers meant I knew how to teach to special needs kids (job offer) and "learn their priceless experiences", and I had to put my foot down and ask my psychologist for advice.
She explained she never even tried to diagnose me because that would happen with even more people and I don't even show most symptons(they're a bit more like schizoid disorder), and if that label was going to cause them to treat me as blessed indigo child or whatever as a graduated adult, I really was better off without any conclusions and just treatment for each behavior problem.

Sometimes a condition needs help - a bipolar person might suffer and lose opportunities without treatment for example - and you DO need to accept it as a disorder because it is something that's causing you to clash with healthy self-image, relationships with other people, etc. But also, sometimes it's not enough of an impact that you really need to put that label front and center, with it causing even bigger relationship problems. It changes from person to person, really.

[unknown_user]

Sometimes a condition needs help - a bipolar person might suffer and lose opportunities without treatment for example - and you DO need to accept it as a disorder because it is something that's causing you to clash with healthy self-image, relationships with other people, etc.

It's a disorder.
BUT IT'S NOT A DISABILITY.
You CAN go to doctor and try to pick up an appropriate treatment plan. This disorder is known for a long enough, so there are many meds for it nowadays. If you'll not give up, you have a high chances to find a med, which will mitigate it up to full remission.