Let's talk about how to write a commission proposal and being offered paid services

[EncryptedWriting]

Well howdy. I have been thinking about writing this topic for a little awhile, and I think I should just get it out.

We all see it now adays. Writers looking for artists for long term projects without any sort of payment in line. There are so many of these topics that I just kind of roll my eyes. Hell, I once made one or two of these topics when I naively thought there was no harm. I argue there is no harm in reaching out to explore ideas. It isn't hurting someone. Maybe someone's pride but not a person physically.

What does drive me up a d*mn wall is seeing the payment structure. A few of my favorites are:

50/50 revenue split
Kickstarter revenue
It's a "passion project" and things will be split evenly

I can go on... and on... and on. At this point, I bang my head against the wall and genuinely wonder if these folks think through what they're posting. A lot of these post simply do not showcase the necessities needed to make an appeal to the general public. If someone is asking to team up with someone for no guaranteed revenue, then they best put out a d*mn good argument as to why they should be paid attention to.

Often, I see these posts where folks call for a 50/50 split or it being a passion project. They then copy and paste the summary of their story, maybe include the link. Hell maybe they don't even have a story and it is just an idea with no backing or previous work put into it.

Stating "yeah I have the first few chapters mapped out" or "the plot is confirmed and the novel is coming soon" is not appealing at all. It makes it seem like this is just a brash idea with no passion into it.

Listen, I've been there. I have flurries of ideas that I think would kick a*s being in the real world. But there's a difference between an idea and an actual novel, novella, or something beyond a "this sounds nice". If you can't showcase the full fleshing of an idea, then how do you expect an artist to react when drawing? They don't want to put in months and years of work just for a new "better" idea to spur and leave the previous one in the dust.

I don't say this to attack writers. Again per mentioned, I have done this. What I haven't done is put out a proposal without any backing. If I propose something, the story is either completed, in the midst of being written, or in some world it has been finished.

Now, I find there to be a difference in something. What I tend to do, and have been willing to do for sometime, is offer free services to artists that they may need.

Need help with brainstorming? Struggles with world building? Just a simple spell checker / beta reader? Hell yeah. I see little harm in being willing to offer services like that because while I would love to had my ideas out there for the world to see, I know without 1. My novel being finished and 2. Money to pay a team that that is simply not possible.

I think if a writer offers to help someone with that person's idea or need to help formulate an idea, then I am all for it.

There is a difference between offering helpful services and pushing to have half written work to be created to a webcomic. This is not to say that it is taboo to ask for someone to draw your story. But you have to do more than state you want your story written, paste the summary, and put a link to the story as if someone is going to willingly take time out of their day to see if they even connect with the idea.

If you're making a pitch to have your story drawn by an artist for free, you need to have these things:

Summary of your works
Statement timeline of where they are creation wise
What you provide as a writer
Writing and scripting examples
Communication pathways (discord, e-mail, Instagram, etc.)
What you are looking to have done (give a timeline of expectations, how long it will take you to finish your work, and how you imagine the drawing timeline in X amount of years)
If the novel or work is even completed
Specific things you find to be important for an artist to consider (if age or gender is a factor then bring this up!)

That's all I can think of at the moment, but folks pitching in would be appreciated. The more you put in your pitch, the more you'll get back from the community. I am not saying it will be a homerun, but you may have actual folks respect you for at least putting effort into the pitch.

Now, yall might say "what about artists asking writers for their work for free?" These cases are far and few in between. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. When seeing a thread like this, don't rush to be the first one to comment. Put together a proposal, ask questions that you may have, and I argue most importantly, having writing samples prepared. In particular, scripting samples. It is very different having a novel and having a script. How people interpret a novel chapter and a script episode can be a drastic change. I recommend that if you prepare a pitch for an artist and are putting your own topic out there to be looked at, then practice script writing. You can tell who has script written (wrote?) before and who hasn't. Practicing it goes a long way.

Also, please make sure that communication is a key factor. Whether coming from my masters degree or through working with different artists, communication is the base for success and failure. Bad communication leads to either failure of a project or no project at all. I like using discord, but I have also worked on Instagram and Facebook as well (when have commissions).

Also, please dont expect an artist to be lightning fast at drawing. Some artists are just straight up gods and can draw wicked fast. But, creating episodes on their own, it can take months to have a single episode finished. Are you willing to wait that long? Genuinely, ask yourself if you're willing to wait for a buffer or for episodes to be completed. If the answer is no, then you aren't ready to be working with someone.

When in doubt, paying someone for their time is the best lane to take. As the movie Matilda states "a contract is a contract is a contract". What I am not saying is that putting together a well strung proposal is not a waste of time. If you're willing to put genuine effort into a proposal to showcase you're actually willing to work longterm on this project, instead of leap frogging to a new idea, thrn go for it. If you've been passionate about an idea for so long that you've written a good amount of the story, then sure. It is best to be over the top with a proposal rather than lacking.

The next thing I want to bring attention to is something that peeves me. Folks in the collaboration section seem to forget that you are not allowed to promote your services unless someone specifically asks for someone to do the services. It is in the guidelines that you have to read. It is simple: dont post that you are doing paid commissions if no one is looking for commissions.

Now, if someone puts up a post that they are looking to pay someone for a book cover or something, then that is TOTALLY allowed. What isn't allowed is forcefully pushing these services when it legit isn't allowed to.

It peeves me to no end. Again, I get wanting to get commissions. But read the rules ffs.

Here is a screenshot from the guidelines literally stating what I just wanted about.

With that part out of the way, I am going to wrap this up. I don't mean to speak for everyone here, but this is just something I have noticed for a long time. It irks me because I know there are genuinely good ideas out there that are being lost because people don't want to put the time and effort in either 1. Paying the artist or 2. Making a good pitch.

I ask this question. If you are pitching something to your boss at work, would you do a pitch where you have a basic summary of the project and say "so yeah I have got the basics mapped out but I havent really written anything else out"? I would not recommend doing that

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk and have a good day folks.

[jwabeasley]

I heavily agree. It's exasperating to see "collab" requests by people who seem to have no idea what they're asking for and have nothing but ephemera to offer in exchange for likely multiple years' worth of work with no real creative input.

And it's worse because the request gets put out like, "anybody? Somebody?" The art isn't even important enough of a consideration for them to have specific artists in mind with ideas that play to that artist's strengths. Because we all know that the art part of a comic is just incidental, right?

My ability to do free stuff for a friend I know is much higher than for random online strangers.

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

Forgive me if this is well understood by people making the comics...
It seems to me as a writer that, in turning a written story into a comic, the really heavy lifting is done by the artist. So how is is attractive to offer half of what might be nothing at all? Because I imagine an artist will need to put in more time on a few pages than I would've put in on a completed story. Or have I over-estimated the difficulty of doing the artwork? It feels like I have not.

[jwabeasley]

Since I do the whole thing as a solo show - the art is easily 85% of the effort and time. Writing is 2-3%. The rest is promotion, community building, and other admin type tasks. And that doesn't include preproduction (character designs, setting design, and so forth).

[ShidoDraws]

I always find the "I want an artist who is passionate about this" phrase to be a vague demand. The fact that people think passion is a permanent solution, motivation, persistence, they're also contributing factors. And when an artist have all these things they're usually already working on another project. Creativity happens in the background, and what people see is what the artist is willing to show.

It's not a matter of whether an artist is passionate, and of course they're passionate. Why would they be drawing if they weren't? If anything, the person looking for a passionate artist would most likely squander the passion within the artist. I would always steer clear from those kinds of projects, because usually that person don't have any passion in them and are trying to leech off of others. At least from my personal experience.

[rasteranime]

@EncryptedWriting
I'll just add to what you have said here, for creatives to do lil bit more market research in terms of target demographic and its market size, think of this like, increasing the chances of success in your favor, if the medium is digital how big is it? if its print media, how big is it? also to avoid International legal framework of out of jurisdiction problems, its best if writer and artists are from same locality or same country, because if they are not like the below scenario,

For. Ex., If a writer and artist (are seriously committed) get to together and are from different countries.. if the projects start making money, and if for any reason problems arise, and there is fallout, where and how would dispute resolution takes place in which court and so forth (this may seem far fetched worst case scenario)

And also not to mention, Tapas won't be stepping in either party's defense if problems do arise.

So hence I suggest it would be better if the A. "Writer" and B. "Artists" are from the same locality/country, such that at time of dispute, and have the agreement explicitly word it in such way that it takes into account all possible scenarios, like whether it relates to revenue sharing or dispute settlement in which place/courts or clause for penalty for delayed work completion, etc.

I say this because, in this place I see artists from different parts of the world, and I have come across established MNCs have problems when it comes to enforcing contracts in cross border transaction, hence it would be best to avoid these legal hurdles from International POV all together.

[PeteLensing]

If I were a writer who would write a commission proposal I would:

1) give the artist the option to build the vision for the story / comic with me to
develop a project the artist wants to draw and to have a chance that the artist
stays motivated.

2) list the jobs that have to be done to get the story written, drawn and promoted
and then assign the jobs and offer to help with for example storyboarding, layout,
color flatting etc. (how great of a help would it be for the artist to have a writer who
does flat colors?)

[kimketli]

I don't even apply for payed propositions if they're vague in their description, imagine my passion when there's not even payment :'D
So yeah, if someone wants to be a writer, they better pitch their idea well, provide examples of their work and show me why should I be excited. If they don't that's the equivalent of not showing art and art portfolio as an artist.

[EncryptedWriting]

Bumping this thread as there seems to be a LOT of new proposals that are poorly written.

[ShidoDraws]

I would just tell them to stop proposing revenue split altogether. Clearly people want their ideas drawn without change. If one thinks highly of their work, then they should treat it as such. Money is time and drawing takes time, so payment upfront is needed.

Of course, I know writers struggles financially as well. If people can't afford to pay for art, then there's the choice to learn how to illustrate for themselves, or perhaps it's just not their luck. Learning to make friends is difficult, I understand. Not everyone is good at that too. I mean, I want to work with a game dev, but I wouldn't go around asking for developer to work for me for free. That stuff is worth money even if the game itself doesn't make money.

Well, I doubt people will understand, but it's worth a try, I suppose.

[PeteLensing]

I´m still waiting for that one writer who wants to develop an idea / project together and
then start a real collaboration. But they are all just looking for someone who works for
them for free and who fulfills their dream.

[EncryptedWriting]

I did that with someone's idea. Full story built (each chapter/ episode summary written in depth so about 20k words written), about 8 episodes scripted with intense references, entire world building done, hell I paid 80$ for them to have a good bg kit

They then decided after eight months to go alone.

It stunned a lot because I genuinely watched this dual project form from the ground up. 🥲

[PeteLensing]

I´m sorry to read that, that´s really messed up that
people do stuff like that.

[EncryptedWriting]

No, it is understandable. We had complete time zone differences. Communication was very on and off. It still stings though to be told, after such a long commitment, that you're basically not good enough to stay with the projecf.

[ShidoDraws]

That makes it sound like you were hurt by my words. I'm sorry if you felt used by another (I'm assuming it was an artist). To others you and I are both expendable, we can not let our kindness be exploited, but we shouldn't let our good deeds destroy ourselves too. I would think of it as a learning curve, something to keep in mind for future collaboration.

To me, a collaboration is like a relationship you have to maintain. If the person you're friends with doesn't meet you half way, then you'd know what kind of person they are even if they are a good person. Many good people are capable of hurting others even if they don't know it. Communication is key, but sometimes you just have to let go. Some relationships just can't be.

And if that person hurt you, you should tell them. I don't care if it's been months or years later. Even if they won't listen to you, as long as you're able to get rid of those water from your bowl so you can make room for new water. Hopefully something more refreshing.

Anyway, that's how I tackle collaborations.

[EncryptedWriting]

Oh no no! I wasnt hurt by your words at all. I was actually giving a sample response to Lensing! I thought your words were very well thought out. Though I think there could be exceptions on revenue split (hypothetically if they even get revenue). I think it is worth a try to post, but it just peeves me now. Mainly the 50 50 ones.

I think if an artist is looking for a writer then things would differ. But, as mentioned somewhere in this thread, a well proposed proposition (with mentioning a reb split) isnt inherently malintentioned. Albeit annoying.