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May 2021

I've read more lesbian comics and watched more lesbian films than gay ones for exactly the reason you mentioned: I want something character driven, something about relationships. I don't need sex in comics and films. That's what porn is for! That's what my husband is for!

I think you're talking about normal queer escapism stories, which exist in BL and queer stories (regardless of the orientation of people writing)

Because BL is porn, fetish porn, and if you're reading BL to avoid porn well.....

Granted it is and has been being rebranded (mostly by the LGBTQ+ community) to not be just fetish porn and include more escapism stories, and stories that are just gay romance without the need for sex. (which is one of the the reasons why it's a debate in the LGBTQ+ community) But, yeah, it started as porn/fetish, and is still a porn/fetish but has ALSO evolved into other non-fetish just romance rep branches.

Vaguely going off the discussion some people started around the categories here on tapas, I think I've stated this before but the site would benefit from adding a gl genre and an lgbt genre. Mostly for the sake of their own appearance. Having a bl genre but no gl genre makes it look like the site is actively trying to erase lesbians - which it sin't btw, the site has promoted GL comics since long before they added the bl genre. I'd argue they promoted GL stories since before the bl uprise truly hit them at all. So basically they need the appearance of the site to match their actual approach to lgbt content.

Another reason we need a gl and lgbt genre is so that consumers of that content can more easily find what they're looking for. I often say a big part in making lesbian or trans representative content more visible is actually making it yourself, but another primary part is the ability to be found. GL has tons of consumers waiting to find it, many of them already on the site consuming BL as we speak! You would be surprised to see how much of the BL fanbase is lesbian women or bi/pan women in lesbian relationships.

All of that being said, and turning back to the topic itself, I think I would still label most of my content as BL going forward. Mainly because the problem with bl is not an inherit one, but a cultural one. It can be changed if enough progressive content is added to the batch, and through that we can change expectations and the perception the consumers of the genre have of the gay community.

You don't need to be lgbt+ to produce progressive, positive gay content. All you need is to be educated.

Being lgbt also doesn't mean everything you make is automatically positive for the gay community. Lord knows there are some active content producers on, say, youtube.... who give homophobic/transphobic people a LOT of ammunition in their desperation to be accepted by bigots and nazis as "one of the few good lgbt folks".

Putting that aside, I think many of us gay people can count at least a few major mistakes we made in the stories we wrote when we were younger. Young people do dumb shit, and I think that's worth keeping in mind in general when you analyze some of the bl content in webcomics today. Young people don't understand relationships properly yet.

The same can't be said for professionally published yaoi where they use blood as lube. No excuses accepted there.

No excuses, but I'm morbidly curious about this trainwreck now.

19 days later

I'm nonbinary and I only write worlds where everyone is nonbinary and pansexual, like... I don't see gender, I wouldn't be able to process writing a character with a gender.

But I give them male bodies to appeal to BL fans, just because most of the things I watch are BL/ikemen focused things...

I don't know if people would call my characters good "representations" or not, but I really don't care. They're not stereotypes. They don't represent what typical BL writers think males should be. They don't represent any gender, gay or hetero or anything. They're just people with no labels...

I don't see gender either. It's not common for me to see people with the same characteristic, even in non binary people, so, that's nice to see you're one like that :wink:. I'd love to write a story about it, but I'm not sure if there would be a public. I wonder if people who see gender would like to know how it is to live without this perception. Or if other people like me would like to know if my experience is the same or different.

I mean, my stories are just fantasy mystery things. I don't think that many people would really... notice that my characters don't stand around going "rawr I'm a manly man" or whatever, I want it to be like, they just notice later. They just go, "oh, hmm... that character didn't have any problems dressing like that."

Oh sorry, I was not meaning 'like you, I would like to write a story about'... I understood yours is not about that. I was merely musing about the idea of writing such a story, because reading your message made me suddently remember that I'm not the only one with such a weird characteristic :grinning:

This is what I was referring to, like. My stories do have a world with no gender, but I don't think that makes them inaccessible.

Oh, ok! Sorry for the misunderstanding.
My worlds are always mainly genderless too.
I was thinking of a story about the experience of a person like us, that being the main topic. That's where is the misunderstanding.
I'll add your story is my list to read (although I'll probably won't be able to read right away).

It seems the LGBTQ+ category is not quite working yet--except for very popular comics. Listed my comic there, but it didn't show up.

Are you sure? It worked for me. I posted up Vee, updated it and voila, there it was. The banner on the main page is for the promoted works that you had to apply to Tapas for.

8 days later

Living in mexico and can confirm people here are still pissed off at USA for daring to take their Speedy Gonzales, us Latinos can really hold a grudge XD.

I'm considering a GL aspect to my comic but its not the same as a typical romance manga/manhwa because it is part of a slice of life. The main character is unsure of their own personality let alone sexuality so it is more like an idealized crush on a person that just happens to be their same gender where they will have to wrestle with their own feelings and ideals as they grow into their personhood.

3 months later

As a bisexual dude it just irks me the wrong way when in a gay relationship there is a guy that is clearly meant to represent a woman in a hetero relationship. Like can fujoshis please stop forcing heteronormativity on gay relationships.

11 months later

I'm honestly surprised how uncommon people of different ethnicity and color are in comics. I tend to draw darker skin more often than not just for aesthetic reasons (I find dark shades very pretty) so it just sort of happens naturally, but I feel like the overwhelming majority of work out there is all white. Often, the ones that aren't all white just have that one POC character who's entire purpose is to BE a POC character. Like the creator threw them in just to meet PC standards. It's sad.

But back to topic, I spent 20 years in entirely F/F relationships, and have dated a very small handful of men. My current comic has characters of numerous sexualities and genders, but not in an 'in your face' sort of way. It's just one small aspect of who they are, which feels most natural to me.

I think it's important to have representation, but it's frustrating when the character's entire persona is defined by their minority status.

As a lesbian, my biggest issue with BL/GL is that most often, it's written by a straight person who fetishizes gay experiences. When I find actual BL written by a gay man or actual GL written by a lesbian, it usually ends up being a good story, but it's a rarity finding it. Women enjoying hot yaoi doesn't help gay men be seen as equals anymore than men watching lesbian porn helps. At the end of the day, it's viewing other people as a fetish for simply existing.

My own comic I listed as GL (along with LGBT and comedy), solely because my lead characters are lesbians, and part of my story does involve romance between two of them.

3 months later