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Aug 2017
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fleetinginfinity
Aug '17

Hello, I'm the writer of Cowan's Crux. I've been posting my comic for close to a month, posted it before about a year ago and completely redid it since, and I suppose my comic isn't doing too bad from what some people have said. However, it's a long-form comic and so I worry about that. What I'd like is if other users on the forum who are writer series that are already long, or are going to be would share theirs with me and their experience with them. Would like to hear about and see how your comic has done here, as well as how you've brought a story to life that takes a bit longer to get into.

My comic:

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    Aug '17

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    Aug '17
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sarrowsmith10
Aug '17

I draw the art for a long form comic Goblins of Razard (which I believe you already follow). I don't think it takes very long to get into. A few pages at most. I have the whole first chapter as 1 episode on tapas, so that helps to draw in people in one big go. My comic is mostly action and doesn't slow very much for explanations. I think this is typical for the action/adventure genre, so I can't talk for other long form comics.

I think the hardest part about having a long form comic, especially when you are 80+ pages in, is that to a new reader the backlog of pages can be overwhelming. I don't have any answer to that tho... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

fleetinginfinity
Aug '17

Yeah, I've subscribed and looked through yours a bit. Having action definitely helps yours to catch the reader quickly. Mine doesn't have that going for it, has to pull people in slowly, hahah.

Yeah, I suppose having more pages can be overwhelming for some. I like it personally though, means there's more story to actually read and won't have to wait for too long to see what happens. Which I guess is probably part of the issue with my series for some readers at the moment.

theladiesi
Aug '17

Hi, my sis and I work on a long form comic together. We've been here for about two months and I think it's going well so far. We have 17 subs but I think being active on the forums is a good way to get people to know you and then your comic. We're almost finished uploading the prologue for our comic so we haven't actually gotten to the story yet. We know prologues are kind of controversial but we felt it adds to our comic's experience. We're still learning too.:grin:

Daknight
Aug '17

I just started mine (as you commented on mine already. Thanks to that I actually did check and found the errors, or at least some of them xP). But I been reading a lot of comics/manga which turn to be long continuous story. My suggestion is to try and have some form of summary for new readers, say after specific arc story or after a number of chapters.

When comics get really long like @sarrowsmith10 mention it'll overwhelm new readers. Maybe have the first one be a summary after awhile so when someone new comes you can hook them fast. Some might not want to read some 100 pages to get up date, but with a summary to get the up to date fast, that might help them stick around and continue from the current point in the story.

Hope that helps you out, I do believe long-story based comic are good and I love reading them but I do know people that might pass up the chance cause of possible time investment to catch up to the story.

StopWatchers
Aug '17

Hey @fleetinginfinity! I'm currently working on a long form comic (just over half of the first chapter has been posted). I will say that I think it's harder to keep an audience with long form, especially if you're only posting once a week like I am. It makes it difficult to build an audience because you have to hope that people see it that one day of the week it's up, and then you also have to hope they'll take the time to catch up on the story.

I made my first chapter into an action scene in hopes of building an audience before it becomes very much a story driven comic in chapter 2. The only downside to that though is I can't really promote it for the comic it'll be starting in chapter 2, I can't talk about any of the story elements, or the main characters, because they're not in chapter 1. Makes marketing it a little difficult.

You and I also have an extra hurdle in that our comics are black and white. I've gotten numerous comments saying "I'm not usually into black and white comics but I like what you're doing" - which means probably a lot of people won't even give it a chance without color.

Honestly the best thing you can do is post on the forums, follow other comics, comment on other comics, those I've found is the best way to gain subscribers (and I've only recently reached 30 :P) So your number of followers after only a month is a good start!

Good luck! And I'd love if you'd check out my comic when you have some time!

fleetinginfinity
Aug '17

@theladiesi: I can see what you mean about the prologue, it's a rather lengthy introduction. There's not more to it yet than the intro so I can't say for sure if the introduction was necessary, but definitely sure it's easier for you to find an audience now that you have as many pages up as you do. Since there's at least as much information up at once now it's more interesting, but if I was having to wait week to week for each of those might not have caught my interest.

@bracomics: You're welcome, glad I could help with some of the errors. Summaries are probably a good idea, but I'm not sure what Tapas's policy are on them.

@StopWatchers: Glad to see another black-and-white comic. I think it fits your setting and style the same way it does for mine. Could have gone with color, but do not think it would carry the same feeling even if color might grab the eyes better. Can definitely see your issue with promotion there though, definitely think you made a pretty good choice with where you started so far as I can tell right now having not read what comes after though, so could be wrong. Starts with a moment in history and a character that most people will be familiar with and grounds it pretty well with that, so that along with the action helps people to take in everything else easier I feel. Really looking forward to seeing more of it.

Daknight
Aug '17

I read the guidelines and doesn't seem to be anything against it as far as I could see. Of course more experience creators might help out more in this department.

AmysGames
Aug '17

My main series, Aiiro No Kunoichi, is longform!

I guess my biggest concern with it is that the first few pages look incredibly different from the most recent pages, since I started the comic several years ago and plan to keep making it for years to come. I wonder if the first few pages are a turnoff for people, though there's not much I can do about it other than try to redo them (which is generally a bad idea, lol).

I also think I might have burned through my old archives too quickly and made too overwhelming of a backlog for new readers, but oh well, too late now. :stuck_out_tongue:

StopWatchers
Aug '17
fleetinginfinity

Thanks @fleetinginfinity ! Same with yours, I think the black and white works very well!! Really I picked to go with black and white because my end goal is to print a physical graphic novel, along with each chapter as it's own comic book along the way. Black and white is cheaper to print, which is really why I made the choice. But I'm glad I did, I agree, I think it really fits!

But drawing it as a graphic novel is tough, as I'm sure you know too. Our comics aren't meant to be read at a rate of one page a week. Ultimately I want someone to begin reading Stop Watchers and not be able to stop, read the whole thing in one sitting because they can't put it down. It's hard to build momentum when each page is it for another week. I think that's our biggest hurdle doing a long form comic over a joke of the day type one.

fleetinginfinity
Aug '17
AmysGames

When you've been working on a comic for that long the quality will certainly change. Given how much you've done I definitely wouldn't suggest going back and redoing it, keep moving forward. A lot of people will enjoy watching the quality of your work growing along with the story. Sure there will be some people who won't, but most will. I know I have with a lot of the comics I've read over the years. You even see quality change in comics by the big two publishers, so if it's good enough for Marvel and DC, it's definitely good enough for webcomics I'd say. Artist and I actually completely redid ours once because of his style changing so much after just six pages, but that was wholly different. That was a matter of finding the style he wanted to use for the comic, and once he found it the first six pages really needed to be redone in the new style. We ended up redoing everything though and ended up with one more page than we initially had.

fleetinginfinity
Aug '17
StopWatchers

Yeah, we've done ashcans and we're looking at doing our first printing of what's called "Chapter 0" to take to a convention this month. Black-and-white has definitely made the printing a lot cheaper. It really does read a lot better to the people who can sit down with the whole of the chapter we have done right now and read through it than those who have to go through what we have online, so I definitely empathize with you there.

theladiesi
Aug '17
fleetinginfinity

Thanks for the feedback. I know readers want to get to the story which is part of the reason we did a prologue. It's a big world and we didn't want to throw a bunch of terms and backstory at the reader all at once for them to have to try to keep straight. It's sort of like throwing someone into the deep end of the pool.:sweat_smile:

But we are excited to get to the story soon. I hope the info in the prologue is useful to readers.

keii4ii
Aug '17

The premise for Cowan's Crux seems interesting. I'll check it out!

A big archive is a double edged sword, IMO. If you have a strong insta-hook early on, then a new reader would be happy to eat up the archive. But if your hook is a more... gradual type, someone who's just started reading might go, "eh, this isn't bad, but I got better things to do right now" --before they get to the actual hook -- and put it off.

In that regard, I'm screwed because I DO NOT have an early insta-hook. lolol

My comic:

revisionstudios
Aug '17

It definitely comes with its own set of struggles! I have a cyberpunk fantasy called Midwinter (also in B&W, I think it's a classic look!)

Like @keii4ii I don't think mine has an instant hook. I fret about that a lot, haha. Even completing volume 1 (162 pages of comic) many people will tell me that they don't think they can judge it because the story hasn't really even started... ahahaha... ha. lays down And being honest with myself, things won't start coming together in cohesion until the end of volume 2, maybe the beginning of volume 3.

I often have to remind myself that this is just a nature of the sort of story I'm writing. It's going to be like 100 chapters, 20 volumes long, and it's a science fiction fantasy with new technologies and its own magic system. There is a LOT to cover, and a lot to set up so it CAN run smoothly. Try reminding yourself of that too if you need it. :')

I've done alright for myself on Tapas imo, but my convention fans are where it's at. I have so many fans that come see me every year to get the new issue, and they probably get the best sense of the story BECAUSE they can read 40+ pages at once. Right now I'm just working on updating more frequently so we can better inspire loyalty. I think having something physical to sell with help you out a lot, especially if you have new content for them at least every year. (Or more if you can manage it)

When it comes to posting a longform story online, I would honestly advise against doing a page a week. It kills pacing for stories like ours. I update 3-5 pages in one episode every ~2 weeks, and it's done well for me. It gives my fans a mini scene to read and they don't seem to mind waiting a little extra. If you're able to swing 6-10 pages a month, maybe you can try it too? Whatever works for your schedule!

Sanz
Aug '17

Both of my Comics are long form. Full blown long stories . Los Esmeraldas actually has three parts


I have a feeling both would be doing pretty well if I could dedicate more time to them or if I had them on other sites. Personally I don't like short comics that much I like to fall in love with characters. The thing about both my stories and my writing in general is that I try to have it so there is a question left at the end of each page. Each page brings something to the mix even if it's as small as two characters bonding when they haven't before. Or shows a trait in a character that was only slightly touched upon prior. But that's just me :slight_smile: Los Esmeraldas starts off pretty heavy in first three pages, and the tone dies down just a tad but only to set the stage for the next the antagonist. In godtown I start off with the telling of a story and then introduce the Mc as I go on I show how that story relates to the Mc and show more about her.

spadesart
Aug '17

my comic SPIRE is longform ! longforms unfortunately always grow slower

i really dont know if mine has an insta hook

Hodge
Aug '17

I have a longform comic called Axis and uhh yeah building an audience on Tapas has been a struggle. Compared to Webtoons I've kinda just given up on Tapas because the format of my comic (webtoon format) makes it rather difficult for readers to enjoy on this platform for some reason.
Since it's long I try to think about my new readers that binge it as well as those that return every update. So the latter wouldn't memorize as much and might drop the series if they don't think it's going anywhere interesting. The former needs a hook (as others have said) as well as a dynamic enough story that they don't get bored after 20 minutes of reading. I try to balance between dialogue and action, and consider the pacing and timing of plot events.

UzukiCheverie
Aug '17
keii4ii

lol I hook people in with a plot that seems like it's going to be about romance... and then it turns around and all of a sudden it's the living versus the undead, demon possessions, scythe murderers, and all sorts of other nonsense :stuck_out_tongue: It can be fun to do a turnaround hook, so long as it's done right IMO (big example: Madoka Magika)

fleetinginfinity
Aug '17

@keii4ii I read your series for a while on your main website before it went on hiatus at one point a while back. I don't think you need to worry about an instant hook, the setting and art for your comic are hook enough by themselves even without the story, which is a bit slow to pick up, but once it did I really enjoyed it.

@revisionstudios: Cyberpunk fantasy sounds interesting, definitely like the looks of it. Hoping conventions go as well for us, we're doing our first one at the end of this month. Getting prints of our first issue which is actually Chapter 0 done. Doing more pages at once might be a good idea, once the artist and I can get a good rhythm going for the pages.

@Sanz: I'm definitely more of a fan of lengthy stories myself. Followed both of your comics so I will have to give them an actual look later.

@hvh410: Definitely easier finding people on Webtoons since they're no effort to that. I do like the community here I've fund, whereas there's no community on Webtoons that I've seen as of yet.

@UzukiCheverie: Yeah, turnaround is definitely a good hook. That's a pretty drastic one, too. Will have to read later. No drastic changes like that in mine, but there is a bit of a shift later on that I think might serve well to keep people interested.