Male only main cast

punkarsenic 2017-03-09 23:42:01 UTC #21

i think male-only casts come from a male-as-default thought process and theyre making it clear that their story is not for women, which is half their potential fanbase (ik women do consume these stories but were not in them so theyre not made for us anyway). that dont make them inherently shit, and sometimes throwing in a women, doing the smurfette effect, is worse. bad representation is worse than no representation.

i think marvel's young hero series like the Runaways and the Young Avengers got the gender balance right; the Young Avengers was typically three boys and two girls. the two girls were very different and both three dimensional characters; one was an outgoing and creative leader type, and the other was a lot more reserved and easier for her teammates to talk to. both had their families, backstories, motives - weak points and strong moments, clearly displayed as the boys were.

thats the main thing with adding women to your team: make them humans, give them all the background and depth of the male characters. dont worry too much about that 'women are from venus, men are from mars' shite, and just write a human. she hates grilled cheese. she loves her dad, but constantly fights with her mum. she loves wrestling, her favourite wrestler is klondike kate.

if you keep referring back to the bechdel test, thats a good way to see if youre slipping with your female characters:

1: do you have two named female characters?
2: do they talk to eachother, for at least 20 minutes (2 pages?) (id add a 'per chapter' for serialised stuff like comics)
3: about something other than a man?

(fun fact: the bechdel test was actually about media being accessible to lesbians, as alison bechdel is a Massive lesbian and first wrote about the test in dykes to watch out for, but it works well for a baseline 'is your female character an active element of my story on her own accord?' test)

indagold 2017-03-10 00:31:36 UTC #22

I'm a women and my current comics happen to be sausagefests with very few women who don't serve much to the plot. Heresy, I know

But honestly it's not hard to write women, just take what you did with your male characters and just swap the gender. Men and women are interchangeable personality wise because they're not different at all.

SiriusLeeLost 2017-03-10 01:19:56 UTC #23

One thing that I would highly encourage over this matter is not "why should a female be a part of my story, but instead 'what kind of female would exist in my story?' Gender is not a defining feature that shapes ones life, but the environment that they grew around. Cultures, politics, customs, ideals that influence how people portrays the world around them. Now just stop and ask yourself, what kind of girl would come out if this?

Take Danny Targaryen for example. She was as bland as vanilla at the start of the TV show. As it progressed she was exposed to different ways of thinking, influenced from one culture and adapted what she learned into her character.

Another good use of environment I would suggest examining would be from JoJos Bizarre Adventure: Part 6. In which a main cast of girls story is based around them being in prison. For them to survive prison they had to be tough and enginuative in the first place to end up there. It's only how they use their character traits to make it as far as they can I'm the story. That said, they being tough didn't outcast them from being relatable characters with sprinkles of girl charm to them. One is nurturing to her friends, disputing have daddy issues of him never being there. Another is loyal and dedicated to her friends after having her own sister murdered. While a sentient plankton posses a girl and learns the true meaning if friendship!

A good character doesn't need to be defined by their gender to exist in a world. The world itself produces all sorts of characters that come from all walks of life. It's just bad writing and thinking to limit ones capabilities with gender alone. Would be as bad as throwing princess peach into Dead Space!
Think about your world and simply think what girl would be born from it that could befriend and/or antagonize?!

digitalvalium1 2017-03-10 01:51:44 UTC #24

Two questions quickly spring to mind. 1) Do you look up to any women in real life? 2) Do you look up to any women in fiction?

Then write those women.

Women, or girls, don't have to be feminine to be female, but neither do they have to be tomboyish or masculine. Each character, even males, have a set of skills they can employ to advance their agenda, or simply survive. Some may have forceful skillsets that are outwardly aggressive, posturing, and confrontational. Others may use their wits. Other still may use their wiles. Even that last skillset, and it is a skillset, is valuable in appropriate situations, and can be valuable to a group.

As an experiment, label all your characters with a number. Only a number. Now write those numbers out on little slips of paper. Put them all inside a jar. First draw from the jar two characters that will be male. Next draw from the jar two that will be female. Next, 2 characters who are gay, etc. What's really changed about any of them? Are they still badass, or smart, or cut-throat? Now you know: not a name, nor a gender, nor a sex defines any person. What matters is what they do.

Vanesalisa 2017-03-10 02:06:48 UTC #25

i totally get you, I made a Male main cast but added a female main cast too because I added the female main cast's some personality and toughness also she can be scary at times, but I for one prefer a male cast because it's very challenging to draw them and I love challenging drawings but I still add female cast too not because of their weak points but their strong points.

ReeohArt 2017-03-10 04:59:38 UTC #26

Funny enough I am really terrified by the idea of something bad happening to my female characters as I feel the consequences of the scenes as well as the story change in atmosphere because

1 - With my male characters I do have situations where some will be sexually harassed/assaulted by some of the villians (because I want to create Villian's like Aeon Cloak from Air Gear) and I kinda feel when those things happen to female characters you need to tackle it it in a more responsible way rather than the character simply brushing it off or even dealing with the situation by joking about it (I think that might be just me though)

2 - I don't like the idea that my female character might be seen as weak when the characters have their fights (I'm thinking of Lunafreya in the FFXV Omen trailer, things like that make me scream in fear on the inside XD ), cuz usually my characters need to use magic to fight but it's not uncommon for it to resort to a fist fight and in that I'm not sure how my female characters would fair in a fist fight against any of my male villains especially since I don't want to make my girls into Chyna from WWE or built like Wonder Woman so that if they get punched or kicked on the floor until they start bleeding, I won't feel that bad for them and it seems an alternative to situations like that is most writers tend to go for the option of having a female villain so that whenever the fights happen the girls fight each other

So I guess my problem is also how those kind of scenes will sadly by consequence be seen quite differently from their male equivalent scenes

And also yeah the idea of the "female brain" is complete BS I honestly wonder where people come up with things like that XD

nolongerusestheforum 2017-03-10 05:07:10 UTC #27

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with having an all-male cast. Of course, there's nothing wrong with having a girl (or girls) in your main cast either, but it's important to have those female characters in your story for the right reasons -- if you actually want to add a girl (or girls) into your main cast or gender-swap some of your male characters, then by all means, go for it!
But if the reason you want to have female characters in your story is because you feel obligated to, then I would strongly advise you to stick with your all-male cast. Tell the story you want to tell, do what makes you happy, and (even though this can be extremely hard!) try your best not to let anyone guilt-trip you into second-guessing yourself. Wanting your cast to be all-male for no reason in particular does NOT necessarily mean that you have been brainwashed by the media or are giving into stereotypes! There's no reason for your cast to not be all male if you want them to, just as there is no reason for you to not have girls in your story if you want to!

Yes, some people will be bothered by the fact that your story has an all-male cast. Some people may find it strange or sexist. But there also people (men and women!) who don't care as much about gender and won't be bothered by it at all. You can't make everyone happy, so make yourself happy. That is what is most important.

Michelle 2017-03-10 05:13:14 UTC #28

Uh, I would be careful about trivializing sexual assault regardless of the recipient's gender. Expecting sexual assault to be treated as a joke or "brushed off" is a very real problem faced by male survivors. If you're not confident in your ability to explore themes of sexual assault tactfully, I would very carefully consider whether or not to include it. Sensitivity readers might not be a bad idea while you're at it.

Regarding females getting in a fight, there are plenty of women who can throw punches and don't look built like a WWE wrestler (and it's ok if they do! Women can be buff too.) Just look up photos of female MMA fighters and you'll see a wide range of body types represented. That's not to say that all your female characters need to be able to get in a fist fight (not all men are great at it either). To imply that women would by default be the object of pity in a fight, or should only be allowed to fight other women, sounds pretty sexist.

Female characters will only be seen as lesser than their male counterparts if you the writer imply this. If you treat your female and male characters as equally capaple and well-rounded, you shouldn't have an issue.

Overlord_Thundersnow 2017-03-10 05:46:33 UTC #29

My main starting lineup is all men.

It's not because I hate women, far from it. It's just that...it wasn't until lately that I was happy with the end result of my female drawings

I've been spending 3 months working on it and I think I'm finally at the point where I'm satisfied with how they look, and that they match my 'artistic style'. So they're coming soon to Planet Thundersnow!!! Just don't ask me to draw them in bikinis! I'm not at that point yet!

ReeohArt 2017-03-10 05:47:54 UTC #30

I fully agree with the concept of making a character a person and not allowing things such as gender affect their personality but do you think that there are some things that gender does change in personalities and emotions of scene's for example

In a fight scene male vs male the loser probably lost due to his inability to best his combatant
Now with the gender swap we get a situation where a girl fights a guy and she loses will it be seen in the same way as the male vs male scenes or will it come off as :

"A chick lost a fist fight against a dude well that was obvious"

Or even

"What was she thinking?"

and also attempting to write the aftermath of such a concept as with the male character I think it's fairly obvious that he's going to want payback and so he'll probably get some training to take down the villian so I guess the question is in the gender swap situation what would the girl do in this situation, will the girl attempt to get super buff to take down the man who bested her or would it be better to change the villain to another female (even the playing field)?
Also in situations like I just described what do you do about character Psyche, how would the girl feel in such a situation where she lost because of a lack of physical prowess against a man ,as with the male character his mentality would probably go all primal (gorilla pounding chest) where he needs to get stronger than the "alpha male" who beat him, now with female character what would be an understandable thought process and how would you go about writing it?

AnnaLandin 2017-03-10 07:43:24 UTC #31

That depends entirely on how you write it. If you write it as two characters with a difference in power fighting and the weaker one losing because they were overwhelmed, or tricked, or were unaware that their opponent was stronger than them, then that will look like a character biting off more than they could chew. How you write their reaction to the loss is what will determine whether you come off as sexist or not.

If I read a comic in which a female character takes on a male character and loses, and it's because the male character was more powerful, my first reaction isn't "HOW SEXIST!", it's "oh, what is the female character going to do now? How will they win next time?". I only think "HOW SEXIST!" if the story explicitly tells me she lost because she is a girl.

Otherwise, it's just a fight.

"Oh, she lost because she hasn't had as much experience in fighting as her opponent" is not sexist. "Oh, she lost because as a woman, she is naturally less agressive and therefore weak" is sexist. It's your responsibility as a writer to make it clear to us readers what is happening, and present this to us in a way that makes sense.

Is it, though? Some guys might want immediate payback. Other guys might give up and declare themselves defeated. Some might get traumatised by the fight and be to scared to fight again. Declaring that all men are hardwired to want to fight is, you know, also sexist.

Some guys are aggressive fighters, some guys are soft sweethearts. Everybody is different. Everybody reacts differently to defeat.

Again, this depends entirely on how you write it. Is your girl the kind of person who wants revenge by fighting, or is she more likely to try to use diplomacy? Is she going to recruit allies? Will she build some kind of trap to give herself advantage next time?

Making the villain female won't really change that.

I don't know. If I got in a fight and lost because I'm physically weak (I am; I'm out of shape and have never punched anybody in my life), I would probably find it completely reasonable that I lost, because I'm not a fighter. If your girl is a fighter, and fighting and winning are important to her, and she lost because she's physically weaker than her male opponent? She's going to feel just as upset and just as bitter and just as revenge-minded as a male character in that exact same situation.

There is no universal, single way girls think. Just as there is no universal, single ways that men think.

A character's psyche and way to relate to the world has a lot less to do with their gender identity, and a lot more to do with their previous experiences with the world. Are they a happy, positive, well-adjusted individual? Then they will react differently to any situation than if they were, say, a depressed, self-doubting individual who has been through a lot of loss and negativity. A self-confident person will react differently to being confronted with a challenge than a person who is very unsure of themselves.

A happy, positive, self-confident person for whom winning or losing doesn't matter much will, after defeat, probably dust themselves off and go "Oh well, that's how it goes sometimes!" regardless of their gender. A person for whom winning or losing means everything will get back up after a defeat and swear vengeance, regardless of their gender.

While our gender identity certainly impacts how we live our lives, it's not the single determining factor. I am not the way I am because just I am a woman; I am the way I am because of the life I have lived, and the way it has shaped my personality. I am soft and emotionally fragile, but I know plenty of women who could take a beating by the world and keep on punching, because they are made of steel and determination.

You're assuming all men are exactly the same. They're not. The "alpha male" stereotype is not universally true. Some guys don't care. Some guys do. Some guys like fighting. Some don't. You can't say a male character would obviously react a certain way because they're male. That's not how human beings work.
Your female character is a human being with her own experiences and personality that will shape her thought process. Is she someone who feels humiliated by defeat and needs to make up for it? Then yes, pushing herself to get stronger to defeat the villain makes perfect sense. If she is someone who doesn't really care much about being defeated? Then she probably won't give a damn about losing, and probably won't bother training!
Seriously. Just write your character the way you would write a male character in the exact same situation, then make her a girl. This is all you need to do. It's that simple. Really. I promise. Unless your story is going to be about being a girl, then the gender of the character doesn't matter. Unless your story is going to discuss sexism or gender identity or femininity vs masculinity, then gender is secondary to a character's function in the plot.

shazzbaa 2017-03-10 07:51:07 UTC #32

this is... a weird assumption!! some guys are going to respond this way and some aren't. Some ladies are gonna respond this way and some aren't. There's a gender stereotype of "macho" type behaviour being generally associated with guys, but uh, that's not universal, that's just a cultural expectation we place on guys -- a tendency at most.

the idea that a woman has to have a massive wrestler bod in order to beat someone just because they are male is not actually true! [obligatory link to these gifs] (there's also a lot of fighting ladies in that blog's fight tag if you want some more visuals). Not to mention there's a lot more to fighting than Who Has The Biggest Muscles. Like yeah, if you put...... say, me, up against some dude, I'd probably not be as strong because I am a small noodley person who draws pictures all day. But once you get into people who actually work and fight, that default of men being a little bigger kinda matters less and less.
It's something that might be worth looking into a little more deeply if you wanna pursue this, because a lot of folks who know more about fights than me have actual info on why this idea that "man vs woman of equal fight training automatically means the man will win" doesn't pan out.

The idea that a man, being a man, has only one conceivable reaction ("primal gorilla") and so a woman, being a woman, must have some other reaction that a woman would have -- that's an approach that kind of doesn't align with real people. What is a woman's reaction to getting beaten in a fight by someone stronger? Well, it depends on the character; if she hates losing and wants to win, she's going to want to find a way to win; if she hates getting beat up, she might just look for ways to avoid getting cornered by that guy. But that would be true of the guys, too -- there are plenty of guys where Not Getting Beat Up is far more important to them than being recognised as the most macho male. I'm not gonna say that all genders think the exact same, but the idea that women have some kind of alien thought process that doesn't understand masculine concepts like "revenge" is way off to me.

Like, let's take a karate kid type scenario -- a boy gets beaten up, and he finds out it's possible to train so that he can beat up his attackers, and he accepts the training. A girl in that exact same situation.... do you really think it's unbelievable that she'd feel the same way? The difference comes in how society will respond to them -- the girl knows people will react much more harshly to her for being violent, whereas the boy knows it's sort of expected of him. That might or might not affect what they decide. But their emotions inside aren't all that different.

All of this said, though .... no, your current story idea doesn't have to be the place you challenge these misconceptions. But I think a lot of the notions you're running into here that make it so hard to resonate with a female character in these circumstances are just that -- misconceptions, generalisations that kinda don't reflect everyone. "A man would clearly want revenge... but would a woman want revenge???" is such a strange question to me, and maybe it sounds a little sillier written out that way, but that's really what a lot of it sounds like! It's so easy for me to imagine a woman covered in gashes and spitting out teeth and blood and swearing she's gonna cave that guy's face in when she next gets a chance, and making someone resonate with that character and her desire to crush that guy into the pavement doesn't feel like it'd be extra difficult.
But you have to believe in that character in order to write her, and challenging all those ideas might take time. I'd encourage you to explore it, still! To look at how a female character might be able to exist in a space you didn't imagine, and to consider trying! But if you feel way out of your depth, I don't think it's bad to not be ready to tell that story.

Michelle 2017-03-10 08:15:55 UTC #33

shazzbaa:

the idea that a woman has to have a massive wrestler bod in order to beat someone just because they are male is not actually true! [obligatory link to these gifs] (there's also a lot of fighting ladies in that blog's fight tag if you want some more visuals). Not to mention there's a lot more to fighting than Who Has The Biggest Muscles. Like yeah, if you put...... say, me, up against some dude, I'd probably not be as strong because I am a small noodley person who draws pictures all day. But once you get into people who actually work and fight, that default of men being a little bigger kinda matters less and less.It's something that might be worth looking into a little more deeply if you wanna pursue this, because a lot of folks who know more about fights than me have actual info on why this idea that "man vs woman of equal fight training automatically means the man will win" doesn't pan out.

Yeah, this too. I couldn't beat anyone up because I sit in a chair and draw all day, but I have female friends who could bench press me over their heads. But that's because, like men, they have to train their muscles to be strong. My strong guy friends, also, have to train to be strong.

There seems to be this odd assumption that being male instantly equals strong by default? It's true that guys build muscle more quickly because of testosterone, but that doesn't mean every dude is strong and knows how fight. I love my partner dearly but I know he'd get his butt whooped because like me, he is a noodly artist (and also hates violence. Guys can dislike fighting too). I know many sweet noodle dudes just as I know many tough-as-nails women. There's no strict definitions for men or women when it comes to strength or personality.

hushicho 2017-03-10 11:37:27 UTC #34

It's not sexist in and of itself to have a cast made up of only one biological gender. People (and characters) aren't limited by what bits they were born with (or which gender they choose) -- there are as many kinds of men as there are women as there are genderqueer people and more. I've often said that a person's sex is irrelevant to what they choose to do and how well they do it. That applies regardless of a person's sex or gender or what have you.

As @joannekwan so rightly pointed out, token inclusion of characters really isn't a good idea. If you want to do a cast consisting of entirely males...go for it! Explore that perspective. It would be great to see someone explore the diversity within people who share a single inborn trait, like their sex. If you think about it, that's not a lot to have in common at all.

That said, I think it's most important to treat characters, however they were born, as fully-realized people that do things they do because of who they are, not what parts they were born with, because that sort of thing is usually not so relevant to the story. A person's thoughts and actions make them a strong person. That doesn't necessarily refer to physical strength. A character could be utterly pacifistic, or just no good at fighting, and still be a strong character. You don't have to be able to pick up something heavy or hit something hard to be strong. Strength comes from many sources. Oftentimes, the greatest strength is integrity and strength of character. Perhaps something to think about!

In my own series, I've been trying to consistently keep the main character Razkaln out of physical conflict, because his high empathy means it's very unpleasant for him. He avoids fighting, wherever possible. Another main character, Parzival, loves to fight. He lives for it! And then there's Cassandra, who is very physically capable and can throw down with the best of them...but prefers the more intelligent approach, wherever possible. It just depends on a character's personality and preferences. These are things to consider in character creation and development.

I think it's important to approach things when you're ready, so it's good you're talking to people about it. If you make the choice to branch out in future, that's your choice and you can take it when you feel like the time is right. Until then, do what appeals to you so that you can realize it as strongly as you're able!

Also, I have to say I'm absolutely overjoyed to see such sensitive and enlightened perspectives overall here. I'm so used to -- and admittedly have grown to expect, unfortunately -- knee-jerk hatefests at most places with topics like this. I'm so happy to see so many excellent points raised and so much valuable wisdom shared with a creator wondering something that I think a lot of people do, but most never speak about, usually for fear of negative reaction.

digitalvalium1 2017-03-10 13:31:11 UTC #35

This really bothers me, and I don't think it's been properly addressed. Sexual assault is... vile. Before you use it as a plot device, I really think you need to read broadly about it. Realize that, just in the US, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 10 men experience this as a defining part of their lives. And that's just what gets reported. Those numbers are likely larger by HALF. Globally the people those numbers represent are much higher.

Read the science, read the survivor stories, read the counseling techniques. Read, and make that reading a part of who you are, because for many, that type of assault can shatter a person completely. Those who previously were confident, successful, and self-assured often even begin to doubt whether or not they invited the atrocity. Those who even had the smallest doubts about their character often see it as an act of universal justice: an agent of God making them pay for their crimes. The word "trauma" does not do enough to explain the severity, complexity, or totality of that action.

You really need to understand, before you consider using rape as a device, what exactly you're depicting, and why. I can offer you good sources, but I won't help you trivialize what is, for every survivor I know, an experience so painful it always leaves a gaping wound that sometimes takes decades before it stops throbbing.

There are few ways to draw my white hot ire, but this is one of them.

AnnaLandin 2017-03-10 14:09:19 UTC #36

Um. I missed this on my earlier pass through the thread, but I'm going to address it now. @digitalvalium1 has already made the relevant points regarding how careful you need to be when including sexual assault in your story in any way, but I would like to add this.

Sexual assault and harrassment is just as traumatizing for male victims. Rape and/or sexual assault isn't something you just brush off or joke away. It is real and it is serious and I strongly advice you to think twice before you include it in your story.

nolongerusestheforum 2017-03-10 15:47:57 UTC #37

Oh, my gosh... I am really, really horrified that you said that. If you think that men/boys can "brush off" sexual abuse, you don't understand what sexual abuse is and what it does to people. Abuse is abuse, regardless of one's gender! To think that sexual abuse needs to be tackled "in a more responsible way" for females than it does for males is sexist.

Sleepyowl 2017-03-10 16:29:34 UTC #38

I for one would think it would be very refreshing to see a female idiot character. People always talk about representation with females in enviable roles (the hero, the ceo, the billionare) but you oddly never hear about them wanting females in less desirable male roles.

I love female characters who act like dumb boys. I think they're funny and charming. I would love to see a female Ed from Ed,edd and Eddy.

Sleepyowl 2017-03-10 16:35:02 UTC #39

As for my views on mostly male casts. I like them and kind of prefer it in a way? Mostly because I have had problems drawing males in the past because I only drew girls, and it made my art suffer because of it.

I love seeing stories focusing on male relationships and friendships, I think they're interesting and charming!

That's not to say I don't like stories about girls, I do, I just prefer ones about boys.

DMBrigman 2017-03-10 18:21:46 UTC #40

I would challenge you to describe your characters and plot without using any gendered language or motivations. All the comments so far are trying to get you to think of your characters as people, so how do you start? by coming up with a basic personality and motivations. Let's go through the process.

For example, Alpha male isn't really a full personality type and doesn't do much to help you write the character. Let's extrapolate into some traits this person can have: hard worker but only in one area, a perfectionist, has to be in charge, boisterous. How can these traits manifest: has to do everything themselves, brags about accomplishments, doesn't like it when they aren't asked first, afraid to try new things, won't delegate some tasks, won't admit when they are wrong, won't admit if they don't know something, gets defensive, stays quiet in heated discussions until there is already a winner, gets jealous when someone is better, doesn't like being alone, is overly protective, very loyal. So, in the fight with the big bad the traits can be used against them. The villain wins because the hero is unable to do what they do best because their weapon was taken away, didn't ask the team for help, got overly cocky, didn't see the trap, and that has nothing to do with physical strength. Then, you can have the hero go through a funk, then learn a new skill that is way different than what they are good at, go in with the team as back up, be a bit more defensive and not fall into trap this time, then come out victorious.

None of the above has anything to do with gender and gives the hero an arc. This also sets up the opposing personalities the rest of the team can have. It also allows for storytelling moments. The hero finally changes their hairstyle, they alienate a friend because they stuck to an outdated idea, they won't let their friend do something because they are afraid they could get hurt, etc. It also helps as you write scenes far better because then you are figuring out how this character will act because they are a perfectionist and not how are they acting because they are a woman.

After you have done this process for all of your characters, then you can go back flip a coin and assign genders that way, then layer experiences on top. Your heroine then can deal with people underestimating her because she is a woman and that is why she tries so hard. She often gets push back for being boisterous because ladies should be quiet and demure, she gets called bossy, gets annoyed when people think she should be maternal, etc. So many ways to play with this. As your heroine gets in new situations always go back to their personality traits, how they manifest, and keep gender as the last thing you think about when you figure out how they will react.

Hopefully this helps you understand a bit better how you build characters.