Need help with dialogue in a scene featuring a non-binary character

[CarmenRemal]

I'm currently writing a comic script with an ensemble cast and one of the characters, April, is non-binary. I have some dialogue below that I would appreciate some feedback on.

For context. Ladan and April have been friends since they were toddlers. When the two characters were young, April wasn't yet allowed to wear bras but her friend helped her bandage her chest when she was 11. They got in trouble once they were seen walking out of the bathroom together. Now they are recent college graduates and they are separating for the first time. I'll likely get beta readers once I'm done with the full script but I wanted feedback on this dialogue. Thank you for your feedback!

Ladan: April…I’m taking the job in London.
Ladan: April?
April: You remember when we got in trouble in 6th grade?
Ladan: The bandages?
April: Just when we thought the coast was clear.
Ladan: Aww yea. I got suspended for going into the “Girls” restroom.
April: We’d been friends all those years but that’s when I knew, ya know. That I didn’t have to worry about at least one thing anymore. That school was just…not helpful.
Ladan: To either one of us. No one else looked like me and some wouldn’t even talk to me.
Ladan: …I’m sorry.
April: Hmm?
Ladan: I just… I said some dumb things when I was a kid. And sometimes I just wanted to be included so-
April: We all say dumb stuff when we’re young.
Ladan: I know but if it hurt you.
Ladan: I remember when my family went to this restaurant, and the waiter called me flabby. Now I’d just feel sorry for them or just walk away but at the time; that shit cut me to my core. It lingered - So I’m sorry.
April: Please, you know I forgot about all that!
Ladan: Did you?
April:...
April: We’re okay Ladan.
April: We’re okay.

[NickRowler]

I have some questions.

Non-binary is an umbrella term, so not all nonbinary people are the same. For example agender and bigender people are both nonbinary but they aren't really the same thing. Do you have anymore info on April? How would you define their identity? What are their pronouns?

I also want to ask when this takes place. If this is something more modern, I would recommend against bandage binding sown in a positive light. Bandages can cause a lot of damage to people due to them not really being designed for binding. There are safer ways to bind chests if a binder is not available like multiple sports bras and layering clothes. If you want to keep it in, maybe have a disclaimer so teenagers don't try to bind with ace bandages.

[CarmenRemal]

Thanks for your reply! First I have some information on April below pertaining to the story as a whole.

April McKenna (Chinese, Scottish, 22, they/them) is a senior working on their social work degree and wants to work to help kids. They also enjoy fashion. During summers they help out at a camp teaching kids to play guitar there. In Andrew’s band, they play bass and are kind of known for being a terrible singer even if they always try to bump in to sing with Andrew. April is kind of the parent of the group as they are always trying to resolve issues and keep everyone together but it’s beginning to reach a point that they might not be able to keep everyone together.

They live in a small cabin that the band uses for band practice. April has short hair and a strong slim build.

April prefers they/them pronouns, is bigender and their style changes depending on how they feel per day but it's predominantly androgynous.

Now time period for when they were 11 would be the late 2000s. Now they use a sports bra. But they didn't know much better when they were younger, but your point on the disclaimer is valid so it may be something for me to remove or reword.

[NickRowler]

April McKenna (Chinese, Scottish, 22, they/them)

This was the part that sort of confused me because you originally referred to them with she/her. I was sort of curious if they had she/them pronouns. If you only want to use they/them, you sort of have to commit to it. You might also need a scene where they inform the kids on their pronouns, because most kids don't really ask unless they are older teens.

If you do decide on doing she/them, you could have the kids use feminine pronouns while April's close friends use gender neutral.

[CarmenRemal]

Thanks. The she/them pronouns is something I was considering and good note on the kids!

[BoomerZ]

Couple things:
1. You write non-binary people like you write any other person. Being non-binary is not a personality.
2. That is a ok conversation for a movie. Maybe a novel. For a comic, its word balloon hell. You need to cut out out some of the stalling. These two people know about each other. They are friends. They would not be using "We’d been friends all those years but that’s when I knew, ya know. That I didn’t have to worry about at least one thing anymore. That school was just…not helpful." That is a lot of vagueness. Why would friends be this vague? Seems like they can't be open, then why are they friends all these years?
3. When writing dialogue, cut out every time someone names the other person. In casual conversation, unless you are trying to get somebodies attention in a large crowd, you never say someone's name. Listen to when you talk to a friend, you don't go "Ron, that was a good dinner." you just say "that was a good dinner." Ron knows you're talking to him.

[CarmenRemal]

Thanks for the tips.

I definitely dont think of April as just being non-binary or it being her personality and I hope it doesn't come across that way. When I think of their personality, I think of optimistic, a people person, creative, someone who likes helping people. It's part of the reason they really love kids. However, I wanted to workshop this particular conversation here because this is one of the few conversations in this story that bring up parts about them being non-binary.

[EncryptedWriting]

My biggest tip is instead using they/them pronouns in your writing. If you're going to write them as nonbinary, completely they/them, then I recommend keeping those pronouns.

I have a NB character who I adore (born female), and I use strictly they/them pronouns. Only time I don't is when someone is misgendering them, and you will KNOW how they feel about it. They'll get very upset and aggressive towards said person (but they're a cinnamon roll and I love them).

[BoomerZ]

One other thing and I know most everyone on here is going to hate to hear it. English, as a language, has a set of rules. These rules are learned at a very young age and is engrained in us. We use language to communicate to get a point across. Putting pronouns for a singular person in the plural is just going to confuse a reader. I get it's a point you are trying to get across, but if you confuse the reader, they will just stop reading and leave. The rules of language will not change for your story.

If you picked a different term to use, people can do the mental math and adapt. By using a word already used in a linguistic way, you are just asking for confusion.

Remember you are making this for people to read, and be entertained. If it's too hard to understand, they won't read it.

[CarmenRemal]

Do you mean using they/them for one person? Or she/them?

[BoomerZ]

he or she, linguistically, are interchangeable. Using plural forms for a singular person is what I was saying to stay away from.

[EncryptedWriting]

One person for me, for you jt might differ.

[AnonymousHouseCat]

Hello, I understand your grammatical point. I have gotten red marks on english papers before for using singular they, and I believe the chicago manual of style still doesn’t recognize it.

However, singular they is already used in informal speech when someone doesn’t know the gender of the person they are talking about. (for ex. you write “if you confuse the reader they will leave.”) Singular they has been added to the merriam webster dictionary, and I believe the oxford english dictionary as well. Most readers will probably understand what is meant by a singular third person they.

[BoomerZ]

"if you confuse the reader they will leave." The "reader" is a descriptor of the them in that sentence. Like saying "they are a jogger." The word jogger is a descriptor for multiple people, not the actual noun in the sentence.

[IndigoShirtProd]

I understand the idea behind having correct grammar, for the most part, in your writings, especially when it comes to writing narrative. But for dialogue, you really shouldn't force yourself to be beholden to these rules, specifically for dialogue. You want dialogue to be clear and understandable, yes, but also natural. And in conversation, most people aren't strictly following grammar rules when they speak. They end sentences incorrectly and use slang or speak in a different dialect. So yes, follow grammar rules when writing, but don't be a afraid to deviate, like in the use of singular they which people have been saying for years, since most english speakers won't be confused. And I do agree with most of the feedback you already gave like reducing the amount of times characters say each others names, that is pretty unnatural.

[darthmongoose]

April McKenna (Chinese, Scottish, 22, they/them) is a senior working on their social work degree and wants to work to help kids.

Unrelated to the NB issue, I actually have a question about where this is set and the terms being used for school/uni stuff? This character is Scottish, and the other talks about going to work in London, which hints that they're in the UK... but they use very un-British sounding terms like "6th grade" and "restroom" (we'd say "Year 7" and "toilets" or "loos"). If the characters are meant to be from the UK, that's definitely stuff I'd fix.

[CarmenRemal]

They did grow up in America, it's just that two characters in their band have ties to the U.K. I do imagine maybe a spin off story to be set there though.

[hakei]

NickRowler touched on a lot of good points about the pronoun/bandage usage.

I think the name dropping is fine here. Comic readers generally appreciate it when names are included every once a while, even between two people's conversations, to help them cement the characters' names in their heads. We gotta remember the reality that a lot of our readers are reading 50+ other comics and will sometimes forget our characters' names.

[bulgariansumo]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said already. I just think the scene's nice.

[system]

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