Opinion on the "virgin loser" type of character archetype (an by extention, real people)?

[Darth_Biomech]

Quite common character trait in many works to basically proclaim "this guy here is a loser. Because he never dated a girl before!". It then goes in two directions from there: either the character will remain a butt-monkey and many jokes would be made on his expense (you can expect him to be an obsessed nerd in 90% of the cases, for example), or the character arc will include his friends deciding to "fix" him by "getting him laid". Sometimes even without obtaining his consent to that.
There's also a third way of depicting such character, by going the "if they hadn't a relationship yet, that's for a VERY GOOD REASON, and this person is horrible and\or a creep" villainous route. Those characters also usually much older than the first two versions; basically, it depicts them as in-cels.

I'm generally kinda unnerved by the notion that you are not a proper human being until you'll manage to land your bee into somebody's flower, and if you won't do that by the somewhat arbitrary deadline, your situation will turn into a creep factor, further diminishing the chances of "scoring". Yet on the other hand I sort of understand that as well... After all, procreation is our default reason to exist on this planet. If you can't achieve even that...

[AceRagz]

This is more of a problem that stems from society rather than fiction. It is a bled over from how people think someone is a loser if they don't lose their virginity by a certain age. I had two girlfriends that were freaked out that they never had sex at their ages. One was 27 and the other 25 and the younger of them called herself a freak over this. It is disturbing how these kind of situations arise.

[HGohwell]

I think it depends on the genre for me. I don't mind this in comedy where everyone is a parody of a normal character and normal society. But when it turns up in serious works, especially if they're the only representation of a very, it gets a bit awkward. I mean, it is an unfortunate truth that there are people out there who are creeps and how do blame others and get bitter but that's not the majority of people. Women who are virgins have a 50/50 chance of being the pure naive innocent type who doesn't know anything about anything and doesn't even know the word sex, or the cold bitchy nerd frigid girl.

You did miss the other type of virgin who turns up as a man or woman in fiction and that's the overly religious nut who's waiting for marriage. This is a totally fine belief, but in fiction tends to indicate a religious nut who is a preachy prude who doesn't know how to have fun, shows mild to severe bully tenancies and will slut shame at every opportunity.

After all, procreation is our default reason to exist on this planet. If you can't achieve even that...

This in particular just doesn't apply anymore though. When contraception exists and people are having sex for the sake of sex, not to mention all the other ways to get pregnant without sex and all the children who need adopting, the idea of sex for procreation being important just doesn't factor in anymore.

[Darth_Biomech]

Well, they at least had romantic relationships by their ages? I have a friend who never had any kind of romantic relationship in his life. Not even so-called "puppy love". He's turned 30 this year. He's absolutely crushed by that every time something reminds him of it, and believes that he lost all hope via that fact, because "who would want or even consider dating a romantically retarded, who doesn't even know how to date properly?". Factoring in the "a virgin at this age = something's wrong with him" stereotype certainly doesn't do any favors either.

[SilentHamster102]

If somebody didn't had a romantic relationships it doesn't mean that this person is a virgin, you know. It's my case, btw (drunk parties is so drunk, heh).
And there is nothing bad if somebody didn't had relationships, I think so. IMHO romantic is overrated, probably (theoretically) it's funny thing to try once in the life, but I don't think that is so important like many works of fiction trying to show. At least this is my point of view.

[AceRagz]

Yes both of them had previuous romantic relationships. The younger one just would find guys she was attracted to at first but once they started dating she found herself not interested in them for one reason or another and dumped them. I was her first serious boyfriend.

The older one....oh boy she was a mess. I had sympathy for her situation however it was what she did to me after the relationship ended that was really screwed up.

She had one boyfriend before me. Her problems were due to her having seen a movie with a rather traumatic rape scene in it at a very young age she had this huge psychological fear of being raped she was not even capable of consensual without this fear causing her a lot of pain.

When I met her she had been broken up with the guy for seven years and I didn't know she had stalked him for about three years after it ended. She was constantly talking about sex however and writing about it. She also was the first to make our friendship more than just friends by admitting she had deeper feelings than that towards me.

And we dated for about a month and on her first visit to see me she tried to drag me to bed but call it instinct I felt uncomfortable with her and turned her down each time. Then came the day I missed my flight to go see her and she dumped me saying I did it on purpose and just belittled and berated me for two hours over the phone. After things calmed down she got back in touch with me about six months later and told me all about her situation and I was sympathetic towards her and she wanted to get back together but after how she treated me I said no. She stalked me for fourteen years trying to get me to take her back.

[SuperRazz]

I find the trope mostly 'meh' becasue of the way they're written and portrayed. I guess a virgin could be seen as a loser by other cultures, but it isn't in mine so I couldn't empathize with the trope. I can't feel sorry for that kind of character or laugh at him/her for being a virgin.

I do wish the 'loser virgin' trope could be written from a more honest and genuine perspective. I'd love to read about a 30+ virgin who finds fulfillment in other methods not related to sex & romance and still remains a virgin in the end of the movie

[Darth_Biomech]

If somebody didn't had a romantic relationships it doesn't mean that this person is a virgin, you know

But sex is a form of romantic relationship.

[SilentHamster102]

Ok, whatever. But I don't think so.

[therealbereth]

Nah, don't conflate sexual attraction with romantic attraction. These are two different things. You can be asexual and have an interest in romantic relationships, for example—or be aromantic, but have a lot of fun with just casual sexual relationships. Sex is not romance. That's just what (western) society loves to conflate.

As for the archetype? It just annoys me lol; and it can be deeply harmful, too. Even when used for comedic purposes, it perpetuates the idea that sex is THE ultimate goal for everyone, and as an ace person, that just resulted in me thinking I was broken for over 20 years, so thanks Hollywood I guess.

[SleepingPoppy]

Yeah, I'm not a fan. It's fine for characters to have less healthy understanding of sex, but it'd be better if the story is self aware.

I always found the way Hocus Pocus treated Max being a virgin as something to laugh at super weird! Why would you communicate to children that it's funny/strange for a teenage boy to be a virgin?!?

[Wumbl]

I have a problem with this.

It promotes the idea that virginity is A. a real, tangible thing and B. in any way indicative of your charisma, confidence or relationship knowledge.

Any character whose sex life is their entire character development is a bad character.

[unknown_user]

But sex is a form of romantic relationship.

No, it isn't. People can have (or have not) sex for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is related to romantic relationships, sometimes not.

[unknown_user]

Well, obviously this trope have come from the common overvaluing sex and romantic relationships in general in our society.
If the main goal of the whole your life is to make sex / relationships ASAP WITH ANYBODY, NO MATTER WITH WHOM, WITHOUT ANY DELAY, then yes, if in the same time you are virgin, you haven't fulfill your purpose and thus you are loser, LOL. But if your life goal is something else (which I think is true for more or less intellectually developed people), then, obviously, you are not.
Loser or winner - it's all relative and depends on your goals. Stereotypes are so stereotypes.

[SleepingPoppy]

My mom watches The Bachelor, and the guy they last had on (I think it was the last one) was a virgin. The show made such a big deal out of a handsome guy in his 20s being a virgin, it was really gross and weird. And honestly, it could have been great if they'd brought it up without acting like it was a central thesis of the show, because having an example of a guy in his 20s whose clearly charming and smart, and just casually being like "and also a virgin, cool" would be a nice example to put out there into the world.

But instead every episode was like "AND HE'S A VIRGIN! WOW! IMPOSSIBLE! HANDSOME VIRGIN? UNICORN!" And yeah, icky.

Just interesting to have a kind of real world (as much as reality tv can be) example of how media treats virginity. =/

*particularly male virginity. I think women kind of get pushed in both directions, but the "all virgins are losers" is def aimed particularly at men

[DiegoPalacios]

"the virgin loser stereotype is all a government conspiracy to stop people for being virgin until 30 and becoming wizards, that is how the government controls society, by monopolizing arcane magic"

now for the serious answer:

The idea that a person`s self worth should depend of them inserting their chungus on another individual is just pathetic and ridiculous. Also, by pressuring people to lower their standards just because they "HAVE" to get laid and/or married only encourages unhealthy sexual relationships.

[DiegoPalacios]

fourteen years??????, that`s insane. Sorry you had to go through that, i think your instincts were right when you didnt bed her.

If this is still going you may need a restraining order. Hope she gets better and solve her issues.

[AceRagz]

I haven't heard from her in over a year and I heard she met some guy from one of the adoptable games she was running and they got married and she stopped looking for me.

A big part of this whole stalking mess was over the fact she saw me as her last chance for love and losing her virginity. This is why I really dislike this attitude that people have that if you don't lose the v card by a certain time in your life you are open to ridicule. It's a dangerous and cruel attitude that can drive some people to horrible actions and normalize unhealthy behavior as well.

[Maps]

And Max looks so much like a child now (from when I was a kid). I understand the whole “witchcraft and sacrifice the Virgin” storyline, but I agree that Hocus Pocus is was weird with that

[Maps]

Sorry about what happened to you, and SO TRUE. I remember in high school I had to do this group project with a bunch of these girls I didn’t care for and one of my friends. They all started talking about their hookups and everything they had done... and I hadn’t kissed anyone (I was 18). One of them began laughing at me and asking me if I ever got horny (This girl also asked me once if I thought my cousin was hot; needless to say I don’t like her). The others were doing the “that’s so cute!” thing. Like, man, that was traumatizing for me back then. I felt like a freak.
I also didn’t have my first sig other til I was 24 and that’s who I gave my first kiss to.
Looking back, I really regret how bad I used to feel for not having been kissed and all that. I felt like I was unattractive and unlovable if I hadn’t been kissed or in a relationship. But the truth was, I was pushing people interested in me away because I wasn’t ready for one, and it took some self reflection for me to realize I had been doing that. Also, I had some childhood trauma that left me a bit scared of intimacy.
Anyway, I’m super proud now that I waited so long. I feel like my relationship is great and I was able to focus on myself as I made my way through college and traveling. I wouldn’t change it for the world and I sort of wish it on other people. Society needs to update the fact that it’s completely okay to focus on yourself and not to be pining after a love interest, especially in your teens (and honestly even in college). It’s important to understand what you want in your life and for yourself before you find the teammate that’ll suit you.