Opinion on the "virgin loser" type of character archetype (an by extention, real people)?

[AceRagz]

Agreed. Kids have no idea what is a truly healthy relationship when they are young yet peer pressure makes that even worse. I've seen couples get married because the guy knocked up a girl because he wanted to be able to brag he wasn't a virgin. Caught up with some of them a decade later and they were either divorced or still married and miserable and only a few found a way to make it work out.

Then there is the cases of people catching STDs because they were worried about being judged and acted out carelessly. There is so many bad things that I've seen happen in my school growing up because of this judgmental behavior.

I agree with you that people should just be left alone to decide when they are ready for these things when they feel 100% ready.

I really dislike the virgin loser type stories for these reasons. To me it just feels like it can heap more pressure on younger audiences that watch it and I guarantee they already are being pressured to live up to their local "societal norms".

[GesuGesu]

I only put in that type because I wanted a naive, adorable type of character in my story. I didn't exactly write him out to be a loser, but more of a stickler. He wants a girl, but he's just so inexperienced that others find him obvious in his crush.

[SleepingPoppy]

There's nothing wrong with writing an inexperienced character intentionally. Or to write a character thats inexperienced because they're a creep, it's just the trend and the way it focuses on virginity = bad that's a problem. The way these stories treat the virgin characters plays a pretty big factor!

Personally I really like romances that focus on one or both characters being inexperienced, because I relate to that. ^^

[unknown_user]

Anyway, I’m super proud now that I waited so long. I feel like my relationship is great and I was able to focus on myself as I made my way through college and traveling. I wouldn’t change it for the world and I sort of wish it on other people.

No, thanks. Having as much sex, as I want and going through the series of relationships didn't prevent me from graduating from the university and working at a couple of decent beneficial works. If I would forbid it to myself, it would made me just even more unhappy. Moreover... did you try to concentrate on serious research or programming, when all your thoughts are about f*ck? A hint: if your libido is very high at the moment, it's close to impossible. Thus, for me, the best way to avoid it is just to have enough sex, so I would calm down and don't be distracted, when I should concentrate on serious things.
So, please, don't generalise your experience for all people. What is good for one person, isn't necessarily good for another one.
And also... sorry, but I don't see any reason to be proud of not-having sex or/and relationships. As well as no reason to be proud of having it, of course.

Society needs to update the fact that it’s completely okay to focus on yourself and not to be pining after a love interest, especially in your teens (and honestly even in college).

Having relationships doesn't mean to be pining after a love interest. You can have them, and still be productive. It depends.

It’s important to understand what you want in your life and for yourself before you find the teammate that’ll suit you.

For some people it's impossible.

[therealbereth]

So, please, don't generalise your experience for all people.

I'm sorry, but where did @Maps generalise anything? Your reaction comes off as pretty defensive about something that wasn't even stated. No one here said that having sex and enjoying it and whatnot makes you lesser; Maps was stating personal experience.

And honestly, I would be proud of myself, too, if I had just waited longer – because then, and only then, would I have listened to my own needs. That is reason enough to be proud, and it has nothing to do with the sex itself.

Don't know why you need to be so passive-aggressive about other people's personal experience here.

[Maps]

I’m just gonna keep this simple. There’s nothing wrong with having sex or dating while younger if that’s what you want to do. I’m saying that the societal pressure to feel like you need to do these things to feel accepted feels wrong.
It’s my opinion and we differ there. I respect yours.

[therealbereth]

I’m saying that the societal pressure to feel like you need to do these things to feel accepted feels wrong.

On top of the pressure making people feel like they're somehow wrong or broken for not engaging in something they don't feel ready for, it leads to people DOING what they so do NOT want.

I've went through years of dating and weird sex with lame partners because I thought it was normal, and I wanted to be normal so bad. Societal pressure broke me, not my own desires (or the lack thereof). Full disclosure, I'm bearing the trauma of unwanted sex with me until today.

So yes, not everyone knows their own desires. That's exactly why it's important for society to finally stop the shaming. In every direction.

[Maps]

Thanks for standing up for me. I wasn’t trying to anger people for having sex. I was just saying what worked for me and how I disagree with the societal pressure when being a virgin. As well as needing to get married or have kids.
I actually quite like sex (now) and I wasn’t knocking people for that. I’d be a hypocrite.

[therealbereth]

I know, that was pretty obvious from your post, don't sweat it. <3

I just hope this trope in media dies, and soon. Media comes from society, of course, but it influences it in turn, too. So we have to start somewhere to crack down on these toxic influences.

Makes me wonder how we could tackle it, as a society. I suspect there's so much work to be done that it will still take decades.

[unknown_user]

I'm sorry, but where did @Maps generalise anything?

Here:

I sort of wish it on other people.

But @Maps , please, correct me, if I've misunderstood you.

Your reaction comes off as pretty defensive about something that wasn't even stated.
...
Don't know why you need to be so passive-aggressive about other people's personal experience here.

Don't know where did you see passive-aggressiveness and defensiveness.

[AceRagz]

I feel like my relationship is great and I was able to focus on myself as I made my way through college and traveling. I wouldn’t change it for the world and I sort of wish it on other people. Society needs to update the fact that it’s completely okay to focus on yourself and not to be pining after a love interest, especially in your teens (and honestly even in college). It’s important to understand what you want in your life and for yourself before you find the teammate that’ll suit you.

I think you took that out of context. The point I feel Maps was making was focusing on what is right for you not what peer pressure wants you to do.

[therealbereth]

Only everywhere dripping from your post lol

But I'm not really interested in discussing tone here any further. It's just not the first time that you thought someone was overgeneralizing when that was clearly not the case, so maybe you are just a tad sensitive about that? Could be worth looking out for. Or maybe it's our differing first languages, we do have a kind of language barrier here, so misunderstandings can happen fast.

Other than that, I think it's safe to say that our opinions differ and that's fine. Don't sweat it.

[Maps]

I guess to elaborate, I personally wish younger people would take the time to focus on themselves instead of rushing into anything that society tries to make them feel bad/embarrassed about, like being a virgin (which is what this trope normally seems to be about - virgins being a loser). I wasn’t trying to say “PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE TO DO THIS”.
I just think it’s difficult to even write on the forums sometimes because things get taken out of context. Or they’re not delivered the way they were meant to be delivered.
Anyway. I’m done with this one. 🏻

[spadesart]

villains like in megamind where they feel like theyre 'owed' sex or are violent towards women because they cant get laid? ok as villains in my book. i have no issue with media that portrays that incel type behavior as evil. because it is.

otherwise? nah. Bad trope.

[Drewbie]

The virgin loser can be comedic... sometimes? Honestly it just is really generic a lot of the time and can barely hold up to most other character types

[vfinnigan]

Also, even back in the old days, it wasn't unusual (and still isn't, in some communities) for people to make vows of perpetual virginity. And though they are religious, they're not sticks in the mud but for the most part, normal people. (And those I've known are pretty laid back. Of course, there's no pressure to get laid if you're in a community of like-minded people.)

[therealbereth]

villains like in megamind where they feel like theyre 'owed' sex or are violent towards women because they cant get laid? ok as villains in my book.

I haven't thought of the villains, so this is a very good point.

If we're to depict the virgin as the "loser"? Take the incels movement. Ridicule them, let them have all the fire they deserve. Not because they're virgins, but because they feel so entitled that 1) women owe them sex and 2) women need to suffer because they're "sluts". I never understood these kind of guys; especially not their weird take with remaining "unfucked" rather than having to be nice to "sluts". Some mental gymnastics these sickos are pulling lol

Then again, they come from the same societal pressure that we have discussed here: sex is THE BOMB and women owe men sex for whatever reason. These things go hand in hand, and that's what makes people like this so damn dangerous.

[AceRagz]

This was the exact thinking that lead to the situation with Elliot Rogers. He was such an entitled little dbag and blamed women for his problems when in every video he ever did he was just complaining that he was handsome and his dad had Hollywood connections yet he was unloved and a virgin and women picked everyone else but him.

He was really messed up and needed help. He would just go on and on about how he felt women should just line up for him because he was the true alpha male. The way he spoke I got the sense he never really ever talked to a single person with any respect he just seemed he felt entitled to respect because of his dad.

Then came the day he went on a killing spree.

[LT1986]

One of my main characters will be a virgin as an adult. He will be made fun of and viewed as an inferior man. My story explains how he ended up this way by giving a non bias explanation of what he did and society did to put him in this situation. I will eventually put information in the story that I don't see a lot of people talking about in person or online. The information might not be socially correct to speak about in public, but I will put the information out any way.

The situation with the character that I'm talking about is one of the main reasons why I made the story. I'm tired of the situation not being addressed with ideas that I think are needed for understanding for incels and other people. I'm not going to mention any of the things in this post. By the time that I put the information in my story, I will be ready to talk about it with anyone that cares to talk about it.

I have almost a notebook of information on the subject that I have seen no one mention in hundreds of YouTube videos, forum threads, including this one, and many personal conversations.

[Carossmo]

The latest episode from my comic actually tackles something about this, pushing the main character to date while his brother already has a girlfriend. There will be more about his backstory later on though, this is just the taste of it.

But this is a topic I'd like to tackle in a new comic project eventually.