Opinion on the "virgin loser" type of character archetype (an by extention, real people)?

[Maps]

Thanks for standing up for me. I wasn’t trying to anger people for having sex. I was just saying what worked for me and how I disagree with the societal pressure when being a virgin. As well as needing to get married or have kids.
I actually quite like sex (now) and I wasn’t knocking people for that. I’d be a hypocrite.

[therealbereth]

I know, that was pretty obvious from your post, don't sweat it. <3

I just hope this trope in media dies, and soon. Media comes from society, of course, but it influences it in turn, too. So we have to start somewhere to crack down on these toxic influences.

Makes me wonder how we could tackle it, as a society. I suspect there's so much work to be done that it will still take decades.

[unknown_user]

I'm sorry, but where did @Maps generalise anything?

Here:

I sort of wish it on other people.

But @Maps , please, correct me, if I've misunderstood you.

Your reaction comes off as pretty defensive about something that wasn't even stated.
...
Don't know why you need to be so passive-aggressive about other people's personal experience here.

Don't know where did you see passive-aggressiveness and defensiveness.

[AceRagz]

I feel like my relationship is great and I was able to focus on myself as I made my way through college and traveling. I wouldn’t change it for the world and I sort of wish it on other people. Society needs to update the fact that it’s completely okay to focus on yourself and not to be pining after a love interest, especially in your teens (and honestly even in college). It’s important to understand what you want in your life and for yourself before you find the teammate that’ll suit you.

I think you took that out of context. The point I feel Maps was making was focusing on what is right for you not what peer pressure wants you to do.

[therealbereth]

Only everywhere dripping from your post lol

But I'm not really interested in discussing tone here any further. It's just not the first time that you thought someone was overgeneralizing when that was clearly not the case, so maybe you are just a tad sensitive about that? Could be worth looking out for. Or maybe it's our differing first languages, we do have a kind of language barrier here, so misunderstandings can happen fast.

Other than that, I think it's safe to say that our opinions differ and that's fine. Don't sweat it.

[Maps]

I guess to elaborate, I personally wish younger people would take the time to focus on themselves instead of rushing into anything that society tries to make them feel bad/embarrassed about, like being a virgin (which is what this trope normally seems to be about - virgins being a loser). I wasn’t trying to say “PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE TO DO THIS”.
I just think it’s difficult to even write on the forums sometimes because things get taken out of context. Or they’re not delivered the way they were meant to be delivered.
Anyway. I’m done with this one. 🏻

[spadesart]

villains like in megamind where they feel like theyre 'owed' sex or are violent towards women because they cant get laid? ok as villains in my book. i have no issue with media that portrays that incel type behavior as evil. because it is.

otherwise? nah. Bad trope.

[Drewbie]

The virgin loser can be comedic... sometimes? Honestly it just is really generic a lot of the time and can barely hold up to most other character types

[vfinnigan]

Also, even back in the old days, it wasn't unusual (and still isn't, in some communities) for people to make vows of perpetual virginity. And though they are religious, they're not sticks in the mud but for the most part, normal people. (And those I've known are pretty laid back. Of course, there's no pressure to get laid if you're in a community of like-minded people.)

[therealbereth]

villains like in megamind where they feel like theyre 'owed' sex or are violent towards women because they cant get laid? ok as villains in my book.

I haven't thought of the villains, so this is a very good point.

If we're to depict the virgin as the "loser"? Take the incels movement. Ridicule them, let them have all the fire they deserve. Not because they're virgins, but because they feel so entitled that 1) women owe them sex and 2) women need to suffer because they're "sluts". I never understood these kind of guys; especially not their weird take with remaining "unfucked" rather than having to be nice to "sluts". Some mental gymnastics these sickos are pulling lol

Then again, they come from the same societal pressure that we have discussed here: sex is THE BOMB and women owe men sex for whatever reason. These things go hand in hand, and that's what makes people like this so damn dangerous.

[AceRagz]

This was the exact thinking that lead to the situation with Elliot Rogers. He was such an entitled little dbag and blamed women for his problems when in every video he ever did he was just complaining that he was handsome and his dad had Hollywood connections yet he was unloved and a virgin and women picked everyone else but him.

He was really messed up and needed help. He would just go on and on about how he felt women should just line up for him because he was the true alpha male. The way he spoke I got the sense he never really ever talked to a single person with any respect he just seemed he felt entitled to respect because of his dad.

Then came the day he went on a killing spree.

[LT1986]

One of my main characters will be a virgin as an adult. He will be made fun of and viewed as an inferior man. My story explains how he ended up this way by giving a non bias explanation of what he did and society did to put him in this situation. I will eventually put information in the story that I don't see a lot of people talking about in person or online. The information might not be socially correct to speak about in public, but I will put the information out any way.

The situation with the character that I'm talking about is one of the main reasons why I made the story. I'm tired of the situation not being addressed with ideas that I think are needed for understanding for incels and other people. I'm not going to mention any of the things in this post. By the time that I put the information in my story, I will be ready to talk about it with anyone that cares to talk about it.

I have almost a notebook of information on the subject that I have seen no one mention in hundreds of YouTube videos, forum threads, including this one, and many personal conversations.

[Carossmo]

The latest episode from my comic actually tackles something about this, pushing the main character to date while his brother already has a girlfriend. There will be more about his backstory later on though, this is just the taste of it.

But this is a topic I'd like to tackle in a new comic project eventually.

[Carossmo]

Ohhh I'm interested to know your thoughts

[nostalgicroxas]

This reminds me how much I've noticed lately how the "depressed" character ends up the butt of everyone's jokes just as much. That guy from "Big Bang Theory" who constantly is tossing around into conversations how he's on depression medications and the characters gloss over it as a joke "he's a creep" or "listen to my problem!" - and another being the depressed gal (Wendy iirc) from "Mom" - which I enjoy that series a lot - but it has her as the butt of almost identical jokes, and more so being told often to "shut up" or "go cry somewhere" - and another "listen to my problem!"

As for the "virgin loser" yeah, it's one of those problems that is a thing and pops its ugly head up every few years to remind us "THIS IS STILL A THING IN SOCIETY AND HOLLYWOOD SUPPORTS IT". 50 Year Old Virgin, millions of Hallmark's Rom-Coms / Rom-Dras, and Disney.
Disney especially is bad at this "one step forward, five steps back" problem - "Frozen" is a massive success pioneering in the way for familial love, only to hit audiences over the head with how creepy, oppressive and stalker-like Ralph turns into over Vanelope (Wreck-it 2). They make headway in having the girl meet the guy in "The Little Mermaid", and then bring in toddler jerk character from "Beauty & The Beast". [Not to mention the Maleficent story is basically _violating_ the protagonist midway through the story.]
So we have two things: Hollywood's twisted idea of reality because their movies can't be "art" anymore. And society's idea of "this is how it should be". It's one of those things that if you look into studying marriages, the idea to marry for love is super young (like actually <80 yr or so); while it existed kind of before, it was a rare fairy tale idea and just wasn't a thing that happened because women, by law, carried the dowry. And if she had none as a daughter, she was sent to be married into a rich family to hopefully save her family (the entire premise of Corpse Bride's opening scenes).

[Darth_Biomech]

Then again, they come from the same societal pressure that we have discussed here: sex is THE BOMB and women owe men sex for whatever reason.

Uh, I don't think that they are simply desiring sex, since for that you can always just go to an actual prostitute. I think they think that they are entitled to happiness, and the only way to get that is to have a relationship. I actually hate them probably twice as much as the majority, since they cast humongous shade on the rest of the old virgins who fit the meaning of "involuntary celibate". Imagine living with your second name being "Hitler".

I haven't met people that think that any virgin older than 20 is either an incel or a monk, yet, but I'm sure they exist.

[TAMAnnoying]

As a Virgin myself I used to find the trope to be horribly damaging to society but after living with the troupe for a few years it’s juts another one of those things where “if it’s written well I don’t mind.”

Like most tropes there are obvious problems that bleed into society with the ongoing idea that “being a Virgin is bad” or at least “abnormal” it’s not so much that being a Virgin is particularly a “problem” anymore but people need “reasons” to be one. When the subject comes up (usually in a doctors office I admit) it’s met with some interesting responses. The first being if this is “by choice” and if it is by choice... clearly it would be a religious one or maybe even an asexual one.

Fact of the matter is for a lot of people it’s just no one has any damn time! Lots of people are busy trying to find their professions early in their lives now and looking for new people to date every other month can take a lot of time out of your schedule. Dating- meeting new people is an investment of time that not everyone has time to make.

Overall, again, I’m relatively meh about the troupe unless the writing is stellar. :v I don’t think it’s a good troupe but I also wouldn’t really condemn anyone from wanting to write a story that involves the idea.

[Mari]

I hate it about as much as I hate almost every female anime archetype.

So a lot.

A lot of the time the virgin loser in any hentai animoo turns into a rapist due to untouched peepee rage.

So that's pretty gross as well.

[therealbereth]

Uh, I don't think that they are simply desiring sex, since for that you can always just go to an actual prostitute. I think they think that they are entitled to happiness, and the only way to get that is to have a relationship.

Hmmm. I admit that I haven't read up too much about this group because they're so vile, so it might very well be that you're right. Although it's paradox: they believe that they are entitled to sex/a relationship/happiness by a woman, yet at the same time, the worst of them choose to stay away from women, all while planning to "punish" them for not choosing them, and I'm—
—what.

I believe that there are academic publications about them by now, including analyses about how this movement is connected to the alt right and fascism in general, but I haven't gotten around to reading any of them yet. Also, I kinda... dread it. I can't get my head around how anyone can have this visceral hatred for women.

It feels definitely connected to the trope we're discussing, and to society pressuring especially young men into being "real men" by having sex (or "having" a woman). But maybe someone with more insight into this movement would like to share some of it and how it may relate to media.

[mrtoontastic]

All I gotta say is~