Over Worrying about Sub Count

spooktacularprize 2016-10-12 00:09:27 UTC #1

I've found myself stressing about sub count way too much, I'd like to be able to ignore it but it's always there right on the side every time I try to respond to a comment.

I've been posting My Comic for a few months

I don't usually worry that much about losing because I was featured on staff picks and I know it's normal to lose a bunch after being featured because people bookmark it, but I do worry because that was several months ago and I still tend to be stuck and/or losing subs pretty consistently.

I lost 6 with the update I did yesterday, and gained none.

It's just hard for me to gauge if I'm doing well or if I"m doing something wrong or if I should be worried that it's...well, that it's "bad." And I tend to think that if it's slowly going down, it must be a bad sign. (And I am super slow to get into the plot, so, rip)

Sorry for this rambling, I know that it can be like, really bad to focus on subs and that's not why I'm doing it; this is really more of a passion project and what I really look forward to is the comments (because there's plenty who always comment and it's really sweet and makes me so happy)

But I do get discouraged. Should I be worried about what sub-count/loss says about quality or am I overthinking it? Honestly if I could just block the sub count indicator on the side for awhile I would, I don't want to worry too much, it's tiring.

shazzbaa 2016-10-12 01:04:36 UTC #2

imo, the way you feel is normal! On the forums we talk a lot about "DONT WORRY ABOUT SUBS" but it's easy to say and hard to do -- if I'm 100% honest, I have to remind myself constantly not to worry and really combat that in myself. It's natural, when you have people looking at you, to be worried about letting them down.

But the thing is, it's really hard to tell how you're doing just by looking at the fluctuating size/interaction of an audience, especially when your comic is so young (only 2 months old!) and you have a staff pick in there throwing things off. There's no way to identify what's normal and what's a good trend and what's a bad trend and what's a random fluctuation in that time frame, imo -- that'd be like flipping a coin three times, getting tails each time, and thinking that there must be something wrong with this coin.

Plus, you can never gauge why people are leaving -- how many expected a different kind of story? How many expected a different character to show up more? How many bookmarked it and then changed their minds a couple months later without even reading the newer pages? You can't judge how you're doing based on unsubs -- and I don't mean that in a "don't do it," sense, I mean that it's literally impossible to glean any useful information from that!

So when you ask "Should I be worried about what it says about quality?" .....I don't think so, not right now. I would say to do your best to not worry about it until you've been updating at least a year. At that point you'll have enough space to be able to gauge whether it was a weird fluctuation or a trend.
I think, to an extent, your gauge of how you're doing kinda needs to come from you, and people you trust. If you look at your comic and it's what you wanted it to be, then don't worry too much -- just keep making it!! If you look at your comic and you're feeling really unsure about something, and it feels like it's not quite right, that's a thing you can bring to people you trust or people in these forums and say "hey, I'm not feeling good about the [pacing/dialogue/colouring/whatever] of my comic, do you guys see anything I could be doing better?" That sense of whether it feels right to you and the advice of people you trust will give you wayyyyy more to work with in making your comic the best it can be than trying to divine the migration patterns of subscribers ever will. ;u;

hisameartwork 2016-10-12 01:46:33 UTC #3

Hi Shazzbaa,
I'm happy to have read your reply. It's comforting. I'm growing very slowly here on Tapastic so it's easy to feel discouraged. I had a boom on Instagram, now I'm freefalling since the last major update. Facebook is a desert. I'm only finding active fans on Rabadaba. So I'm grateful for that and they come to my live streams on Youtube. Most of my core following is from Tsu and I'm so sad that platform closed.

But like you said it's rather unpredictable and hard to build an audience.

I like you comic style btw. I think I'll enjoy reading it. See you in the comment section ^_^

Take care,
Hisame

Izzy 2016-10-12 02:28:47 UTC #4

Yes, I totally understand where you are coming from about stressing over the count. I too was recently on staff picks and gained a pretty good number of subs in a short time, and now I am gradually losing some everyday, sometimes more than I am gaining. It has been like this for me for about 3 weeks I think? Anyways, I definitely don't think it's necessarily about the quality, so don't worry about that! Actually, something that I noticed about comics who do get into staff picks is that the creators seem to bulk post for a couple of weeks, meaning that each episode contains a rather substantial amount of content/plot. This way the general gist/main direction/theme of the story is laid out quickly for readers, and thus acts as a good hook.

In my case, I posted maybe 10 pages or so in bulk, then went to one page updates every week. Almost all of it was build up to action (which I finally reached recently e . e) so I felt that many of these new subs got bored and dropped off in the process of waiting for plot development.

Anyways, there is always the possibility of subs coming and going on random whim (story took different turn, bookmarked and it's not their thing etc.) Really, the only way is to keep on chugging at it, and maybe take a little break for things to "settle" a little bit lol. It does drive me crazy to see my numbers go up one then go down one, but hang in there and just keep creating! It's nice to hear that you have frequent commenters, so maybe focus on your current readers ( ' u ')7

shaneoid77 2016-10-12 03:10:39 UTC #5

@spooktacularprize Your comic screams quality! You can see the amount of work and love you've invested in creating it, and your art style is wonderfully unique.

Large companies invest millions in customer research to find out what's working and what isn't. We humble webcomic creators have a watch count, sub list and a wish and a prayer. As @shazzbaa says, we're sometimes left scratching our heads. My sub count over on Webtoons has been going up and down like a yo-yo lol I think for a few months in, you're doing great, try branching out in to advertising your work on social media, and maybe look in to Project Wonderful.

Aww @hisameartwork that tugged my heart strings. Larger communities can feel quite unforgiving. Maybe pop over to Comic Fury? It's a smaller community and quite friendly

JessJackdaw 2016-10-12 04:06:23 UTC #6

Oh my gosh, so much good has already been said (Shazz the forum saint has already blessed this thread), but I'll add a bit more. XD

I think rebound is natural for staff picked comics because heck, most are picked in the way early stages and subs hardly know what to expect from the comic other than what they can glean from a few pages.

If it makes you feel better, the same thing is happening to me, but... I don't find a few unsubs to be a bad thing. (A whole battalion of readers leaving maybe, but this is different.)

Actually unsubs are a healthy part of a growing webcomic! You gotta think, those six or so readers aren't interested anymore so it's better that they unsubbed than sticking around as a dead reader. The longer you do this and the more the comic grows, this trimming effect eventually refines itself into your core audience that really cares about your work! Just think, that's what you're fighting for. Not a number, but finding people that genuinely love your comic!

AnnaLandin 2016-10-12 06:02:56 UTC #7

So Shazzbaa has already blessed this thread with her wisdom - I'm gonna second everything she said - and add only this; we all lose subs. It happens all the time. It happens to every creator on this site, REGARDLESS of how long they've been doing this, how many pages they've been posting, how high quality their comic is, etc.

It's going to keep happening. It happens to me every week.

It's not a judgement on quality.

Sometimes, people just decide it's not their thing. There are plenty of amazing thing sin the world that isn't my thing - that doesn't make them bad. It just makes them something that is not for me. I really can't stand horror movies, for example, but there are some really great horror movies out there!

Unless someone SPECIFICALLY SAYS "your comic sucks", then assume they think it doesn't. And even if someone DOES say that, don't let it discourage you - it isn't necessarily true. (in fact, I KNOW it isn't true - I went and had a look at your comic just now, and the art-style is really cute, your characters look distinctive, your lettering is clear and readable, etc.)

AND EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE, I'm going to quote Jake the Dog's wisdom and say that sucking at something is the first step to being kinda good at something.

spooktacularprize 2016-10-12 07:40:26 UTC #8

Thank you so much, that means so much. ;u; I...actually have absolutely no idea of what the statistics on tap "generally" look like and what's "normal," and I'm self critical and tend to assume the worst (about everything so it's no surprise that it would carry over to this) Oop. I had little to no actual points of reference to go off of, I hear people talking about losing subs sometimes but I was kind of like out of the loop. I've always been grateful that the people still there and commenting are the people that are interested, which is great imo I'm happy that anyone likes it. And thank you for the compliment that's so kind of you! The people that know me off Tapastic and know everything about the story are guaranteed to be sick of me asking "should I be doing this differently? Is this believable in a cartoonsih world? When should I do this scene?" I was determined not to make a post like this but I always assume my performance is comparatively bad beyond the average, it's something I'm still working to get over.

AnnaLandin 2016-10-12 07:57:00 UTC #9

This is a thing that never really goes away - I don't ask other people these questions much, but I definitely ask them of myself all the time - but it's something that gets easier with practise! You try things, you see if they work, and eventually you start building up a toolbox of things that you are confident work. Having other people advise you is very helpful, but ultimately you need to make the decisions yourself, and that's something you only get comfortable with after you've done it a whole bunch.

Also, this specifically:

The thing about believability in a cartoonish world is that you decide what it is. It's perfectly believable that Wile E Coyote runs in midair for a long time before realising he IS in midair and falling, because the cartoon presents that as normal - it's the entire basis for the joke. Is it believeable IRL? Not even a little bit - but the way the world of Wile E Coyote and the Road Runner is constructed, it IS. It's presented as normal, there are multiple instances of it happening, we as the audience just go "yes sure I'll believe this because the cartoon shows me that's how it works".

So if you present a certain set of circumstances as normal - be it hanging in midair or painted doors on rocks turning into actual functioning doors, or whatever - and signal to your audience that this is the way things work in your story-world, they're most likely going to just accept it. Cartoon-worlds have a LOT more space for strangeness and physics-defying than worlds that are more realistic in style.

hisameartwork 2016-10-12 17:26:41 UTC #10

Thanks for the tip @shaneoid77 I'm still new to comic making. I just completed my first series and now I'm doing something bigger together with a friend since it's so much work. Once I get a hang of how things work here we will try ComicFury too. I just love the community here and I'd like to focus my attention on you awesome people now. Having to many accounts to manage can make you neglect fans I think, and I wanna do my best and be polite and attentive to all. ^_^

ratique 2016-10-13 04:44:20 UTC #11

It is never bad to get too worried over sub counts, but of course it can hint at problems. Now, with you being so new you don't have much data to pull from yet and your issue will probably dissolve over the next couple months.

I have noticed a serious drop off of new subscribers to my own comic in the last couple months however, which has brought me down to a crawling speed in regards of natural growth. That is worrying and makes me think I might have hit my personal ceiling at this website. It won't change my story or how I operate, but it does make me think about additional marketing I might have to work on.

spooktacularprize 2016-10-13 05:16:45 UTC #12

I was thinking the same thing, I wasn't sure about my "newness," I know some people talk about finally getting subs at 6 months to a year (without the help of trending/picks/etc) so I knew it would be "slow" to begin with. I think I've only been posting for..3 and a half months now? Probably a little less since I posted the first three or four episodes pretty close to each other.

I have been thinking about promotion myself, I'm still not sure what the best venues are for it. : ) I don't really use Twitter and Facebook is...full of people that are actual real life acquaintances more than I think people who would be interested, but you never know.

AnnaLandin 2016-10-13 06:03:07 UTC #13

If you have a Twitter account, I highly encourage you to use it for comics! #ComicBookHour and #webcomicchat are highly popular events (#ComicBookHour has millions of impressions every week) and it's a friendly community, and there are a bunch of other comic-creators on Twitter.

spooktacularprize 2016-10-13 06:18:08 UTC #14

I have a Twitter, but I don't have a lot of followers on my Twitter because I didn't use it that often, but I have been hearing what a good idea it is to use it as a venue! I just might try that! I'd love to get to meet other creators, esp in a friendly community!

ChipGod 2016-10-14 03:48:20 UTC #15

You shouldnt worry about it, worry about making comics for the count you have.I mean, i only have 14 subs on my comic and you have 300

elixiadragmire 2016-10-14 06:52:55 UTC #16

Already some excellent response here but I'll add my 2 cents,

From a analytical and statistical pov after a feature you get sub bloat, the bloat CAN be damaging to exposure on the site due to the algorithm that promotes exposure on trending. If people sub and are in active and 'bookmark' and don't read for months it can hamper chance of getting to trending or popular since the algorithm Favors the most viral comics with the highest ratio of subs to activity to be seen. So with every unsubbing, you actually increasing chances to be seen 😅 odd right? The unsubbing should be seen as shredding baby fat or cutting dead weight that'll help you and your comic grow.

shaneoid77 2016-10-14 08:38:22 UTC #17

Gosh, that's a bit silly really, especially if you're sub is someone who likes to read in bulk and you don't get round to a comic for a while. They should fix that methinks :/

TheVoidchildProject 2016-10-14 12:36:53 UTC #18

That algorithm seems weird to me. But I think you make an excellent point, if subs are what you're after.

As I see this, we broadly have two categories of comic creators here on Tapastic:

Hobbyists and Careerists.

Hobbyists are those like me, who do (and for whatever reason can afford) this for fun. Not necessarily to monetize and be able to make a living off their comic or art. And Careerists are the opposite. Because of their disposition, they probably have more at stake when making their comic. Again, I'm drawing with broad strokes here.

Why I even bring this is up is beacuse I use this line of thinking to figure out my own disposition. I'm a hobbyist. I work full-time and the comic is something I do for fun. I decided when I started that I would do this for myself. I would tell the story I wanted, warts and all. If people enjoyed it, then great! And my comic does have a modest following now of which I'm super appreciative of and frankly a bit surprised about. And I'm happy if they're happy. But the moment I start thinking too much about what others think or the number of subs is when this stops being fun. And I firmly Believe that is going to show in my work.

I don't know if that helps you and I'm not certain what your reasons for creating your comic is, but figuring that out is probably helpful to your disposition. It even affects the advice you're getting in this thread (all of which seem like sound good advice). If subs is what's important to you then that's perfectly fine and maybe it's about how you relate to that and accept the ups and downs of it. But I just got the impression that maybe you felt it shouldn't be as much of a concern to you as it is.

spooktacularprize 2016-10-14 18:20:15 UTC #19

I feel like this is kind of true because after a bunch of people unsubbed the following week I suddenly got a bunch of subs, but yeah! I did hear that before and I had no idea how it actually worked, but in that regards it can definitely be a good thing!

spooktacularprize 2016-10-22 23:25:15 UTC #20

Hey I just wanted to give you a late "thank you" for you comment, it really helped me. I found that it is totally up in down, sometimes I get no subs, sometimes 15 in one week (for seemingly no reason), sometimes I lose 10. Sometimes I gain none and Lose none. There's no real telling what's happening until I've been on here for much longer. I'm still totally pretty much new, less than a year making my comic so far.

I'm constantly questioning whether this is the story I want to be telling and if it's the way I want to tell it, sometimes getting wrapped up in "is this the way others will like it?" But liking it myself seems to be a really important thing.