Piracy in the age of digital media

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I just remembered something someone said about piracy being 'necessary' nowadays because of how things like shows and movies (and even games, to an extent) are being sold.

Before, you would buy a disc or a cassette and it'd be yours basically forever. If it ever got broken, that was on you, but as long as it was in working condition and you had the right hardware, you'd be able to use it whenever you wanted for as long as you wanted, and no one could legally take it from you.

Nowadays, though, you have streaming services where you simply buy access to this media for a fee, but the thing about that is that it's not really yours. If, for example, Amazon Prime Video were to be suddenly discontinued, I would lose the few movies and shows that I "bought" on that service. They'd be taken away from me, just like that.

Amazon could provide video files or replacement DVDs, but in all honesty I don't think they're even remotely obligated to do that. The most I think I could hope for in that situation is a refund. =/

So I think the argument, then, is that piracy sort of levels that one-sided dependency. It gives us the ability to...keep media in our lives if we want to, regardless of what corporation execs decide we can and can't have.

I mean, anime fans (especially poor ones like myself) know the whole spiel. But does this truly justify the existence of piracy...?

[Snickerdoodles]

It depends on your logical framework for the concept of "property" and by extension "intellectual property." But IP is really a legal fiction whose purpose is to encourage artists and inventors. One could argue that society ought to be able to overrule the IP rights of said artists and inventors if it had sufficient need.

Like, what if tomorrow a private company invents a covid vaccine, but they want a trillion dollars for it?

[DukeOfOool]

I believe yes, It forces the companies to acctually provide a good service instead of just buying up all good media and locking them forever away in copyright limbo. Or atleast, like with home recordings, we should be able to download the shows we paid the streaming service for. We as the consumers should be allowed to archive the media we consume. Obviously only as long we're not making money of it.

[Cavechan]

I don't think that's quite the justification for pirating, it's more so when the media isn't accessible in any legal way. Or at least as an anime fan, that's how I've seen it. Region locking is an issue in many cases. It's super frustrating when I can't watch a PROMOTIONAL VIDEO because it's region locked. Why is even a commercial region locked?

I have seen people say that even that isn't a justification for pirating, which I understand, but... when I want to watch what I know is a great show and I WANT TO BUY IT. Like, hi, I WANT to give you money for what you have produced, but there is no way to do so... or there is but it's $100 per DVD, no subtitles, import fees, and can't even play in my DVD player because it's region-locked, then well, that's why I never had a DVD of any Prince of Tennis musical despite being a huge fan.

Technically though with DVDs and whatnot, you don't really own anything there either besides that one copy. You still can't copy it and distribute it. There are still limitations to it. Also, VHS and DVDs have shelf lives and don't last forever.

Also, back in the day, the selection was far fewer so the rewatch value was much higher. I used to buy a VHS for $20 and watch it over and over and over again. Nowadays, my husband and I don't rewatch almost anything. My husband is even adamant about not rewatching anything ever. So I don't really see a purpose in "owning" it in some way anyway.

[DiegoPalacios]

My bet is that this impractical business model is doomed to die. People vote with their wallet when it comes to companies.

If it doesnt die, it just means independent creators will slowly take over mwahahaha.

But gotta say that as a consumer, these current models suck.

[Cavechan]

I don't mind the streaming business model in itself, but I think a bigger issue is the exclusivity. Like there was the whole Amazon Prime double paywall that was Anime Strike that frustrated a lot of people. Thankfully, now that's gone. I think what could happen is that some of these streaming services are going to be forced to have partnerships because it is frustrating to the consumer to have to buy 10 different services because each one has that one exclusive show.

I think when it comes to this not really owning the product issue, it's not really a big one because the majority of people are going to watch it upon release. So if ten years down the line, suddenly Netflix doesn't have Tiger King for some reason, well not nearly as many people are watching it then so it doesn't really hurt their bottom line. It did its job, they made their money and the lost royalties are a drop in the bucket.

Well, for Netflix at least. For the owners of Tiger King, it would hurt them more. But now (hopefully if their contract allows), they can now sell that DVD to the people who do want to own and watch it at any time and continue making their money there.

[IdiotWithPencil]

I believe piracy is not only a necessity but is healthy for the entertainment media, let me explain, right now streaming services are in what we call the exclusive wars, where they try too sell not the platform experience or convenience but the content exclusive to that platform, like Netflix originals an amazon primes originals. This makes the avid client have to pay for all services if they want to get the content they actually want, like I want to watch bojack and the hand maidens tale I would have to fork over both services instead of just one.

this means that the services are now fighting over who has monopoly of a specific IP's and not innovating the viewer experience (no more skip buttons inventions so to speak) in comes piracy, piracy is basically one of the worst in terms of experiences, filled with ads,viruses and malware but it's free so what people do is that they pay for one service (usually netflix) and pirate all other making the exclusive wars completely useless.

the moment Piracy goes up enough companies will either become harsher towards clients (with DRM and other client punishing tactics which are basically useless and makes companies lose money and client trust dooming them in the end) or to create a better service/system like steam and Netflix did at the start

piracy is the only way a client can show the companies we want the product but don't want your crappy service for it, give us a good service and the client will pay (like they did when steam, iTunes and Netflix came at the start) don't give us a good service we will get it in another way (piracy goes up)

also this has happened once before in the start of the theaters where each studio had a theater exclusive, laws where then passed when the exclusive wars was getting out of hand and theaters now couldn't be affiliated or licence exclusive content, so the theaters now without exclusives tried to make the movie experience better with food, better seating, etc. that's what I hope will happen with streaming in the future.

[ArthurAleksei]

Your point might sound good from the perspective of the consumer. But sadly, piracy hurts the anime and music industries (as well as others) a lot...

[ArthurAleksei]

By hurting the industry, I mean the studios that make anime (or music or whatever) don't get any money from digital pirates. In this way, even a popular show could bring in a small amount of income for the creators.

Now, as I understand, really popular shows actually make most of their money off of merchandise and not the actual series itself. So there is that to consider.

[DukeOfOool]

Yes, it hurts the industry. That's the entire point. (Artists and creators suffer anyways, e.g. most animation is done in asian sweatshops where they're paid slavewages) Hurting the companies, so all the bad middlemen either stop their bad buisiness pratices or disapear. It signals, that monopoly is bad and the consumers demand independent creators. Like here on tapas we can chose where our money goes and buy the things we want, instead of being foced to buy an all-inclusive bundle for 1000 shows we don't even want.

[IdiotWithPencil]

By hurting the industry, I mean the studios that make anime (or music or whatever) don't get any money from digital pirates. In this way, even a popular show could bring in a small amount of income for the creators.

the Industry is made by the consumers, either treat them well or don't be surprised when they kick you to the curve. Steam and iTunes already showed us that a good service helps the industry and eliminates piracy, but right now services are losing sight of that, and sadly the studios will suffer the consequences. But that isn't the clients fault they want their content but if the services can't provide it in a way the client wants then the service is at fault, not the client. Hell if the studios opened a donation box (like they did with this anime roommate) most would gladly pay them even if they pirate their content.

Pirates ARE dissatisfied clients either satisfy them or watch the industry burn it's not up for discussion it's reality (looking at you hollywood <-<)

[Iris-Grimoire]

Don't forget early Netflix too. Everyone made memes that they ditched that one specific movie torrenter because they had finally, FINALLY found a cheap way to support the movies they genuinely wanted to support. Then slowly but surely, that got taken away as every company wanted a slice of the cake, and now it's just Cable TV 2. Back to piracy everyone goes.

I'm kinda happy Stadia ruined its own marketing so much because it sets such a dangerous standard. When games accidentally get released early like Gods and Monsters, or vanish in a few days, suddenly the price tag stops being worth it. Just like no one pays Netflix anymore if their shows aren't on it because it quickly starts being the price of their DVDs, when they could just pirate the file and have it forever.

[ArthurAleksei]

Yes. Animators can be paid very little. there are many facets to the issue of piracy...

[DiegoPalacios]

Streaming is awesome, it made watching shows way easier. The problem is that with this approach they are taking away the advantages that streaming originally had and making a worse version of cable by having to subscribe to each streaming site.

[ImmortalDreams]

While I'll always pay for something instead of pirating it unless there is absolutely no other option, internet piracy has hit home for me horribly over the years. It doesn't just hurt big corporations. It hurts indies.

I used to actually be doing pretty well as a self published author, then my novels got mass pirated. I used to think I would be flattered if my stuff could ever be considered pirate worthy. Instead, I just felt really hurt by my readers. I spent hundreds of hours and several years of my life writing a book series (not my one on tapas), and the majority of my readers just downloaded stolen versions. (googleing yourself and your work can be pretty revealing...)

Anyways, it's taken me years to really get back into writing and to heal enough to give things another try. I'm here on tapas to share my stories for free, even if nothing financially stable can come out of it, because I realized what mattered more to me. Sharing and connecting with others through storytelling.

[GesuGesu]

In the case of the music industry, I have a few thoughts: My mom asked me why Kpop is now bigger than Jpop, and I told her that Jpop is very inaccessible compared to Kpop these days.

Kpop music can often be found with full MVs on the company's official youtube channel, with English subs.

Jpop music can be found on their company's official youtube channel too, but sometimes it's region-locked. Fans may upload the music themselves, but then Sony Music Japan hits those videos with copyright strikes and takedowns.
Then people like me who want to buy their official CDs so I can actually listen to a full version of a song instead of a 30 second clip have difficulty because many Japanese sites don't ship outside of Japan.

They make it very inaccessible for most people, so many people resort to pirating. If one lucky person manages to buy the physical copy of the disc, they will upload and share the music online for everyone else because it's so ducking hard to access it legally.

You know why I pirated Interspecies Reviewers? It's because Funimation dropped it from their streaming services, but they also refused to let other companies to buy their license for the show. In addition, despite no longer streaming Interspecies Reviewers, they also issued copyright takedowns to fans uploading compilation videos of the series onto video sharing sites. If the legal license holder drops the show, and refused to let other licensors to buy the license off them, then no streaming service can air the show in the west! What can we do??? Pirate!!

-Wheezes- This was my industry rant about accessibility of media and resorting to pirating.

[ArthurAleksei]

The problem here is that studios are deadlocked into these streaming services because of the state of the industry. They have absolutely no control over Netflix's/iTunes'/etc policies.

A donation box MIGHT work, but I kinda doubt it would--especially if the fans never leave the piracy sites to visit the studios' website and find the donation box in the first place.
I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, though. I just doubt it would be universally effective.

Like I said, piracy is a very complex problem. There might not be any straightforward solutions to it...

[nostalgicroxas]

Piracy is also a fine line. Take a game for example. As long as you own an iteration of it, then you can legally use an emulator to play it because you've already bought and own it. Maybe you bought Pokemon Blue on GB back in the day but now your system doesn't work (gee I wonder why) but the cartridge still works. You can legally play the emulator of it on your computer.

It's also a fine line where, some consoles are region locked while others aren't (looking at you Wii and DSi). I can legally play Tales of Hearts on my DSi because it's not a region locked console, and I can legally play the emulator of it with a translated Word doc up and read through the script that someone took the time to translate and I've saved.

Music, last I checked, is of a similar thread. So long as you own a physical copy of it - tape, CD, proof of buying the MP3 file - then you legally can transfer it to any thing else you own. CDs have taken the route to try and stop you from doing this- the Skyward Sword music disc that came with the game has a built in piracy blocker so you cannot easily rip of the music off. Rather that, you can rip it off, but you cannot then translate those files over to a MP3 player. Which is dumb cause like, at some point, they won't make that CD anymore, and CDs will eventually wear out when you listen to them a billion and a half times. I'd rather take my chances in murdering the batteries of a cheap MP3 player.

Another problem with this system of streaming is what's happened on services like Netflix and Hulu. You've bought into streaming to watch on them, but the moment either stopped hosting Disney movies (the selection being few and far between anyway), I have less reason to have that service. Why pay for a service when I can stick in my DVD of said movie? Or worse, the streaming service doesn't have the movie that I have on VHS, but I want to watch it. But this pirated site DOES have it. Am I legally allowed to watch it because I own the physical thing, or am I legally allowed to use one of the many tools (some even for sale on stores like QVC) to just rip the old VHS content to the modern day computer?
And what about for movies that I don't "own" but were recorded to VHS when they were on TV, and were never released for people to buy? Like "Brink" the movie, has pretty much never seen an at-home release to watch. It's a fun movie and I have it on a VHS somewhere. Am I legally allowed to watch it? Yes, so long as I'm not charging at the door to come in and see it. That's where the clause of "private use" only comes in at the start of every movie.

[rajillustration]

Technology changes so rapidly that it doesn't matter if you physically own it. Unless it's a book (and even then, books fall apart) the copyright to own that copy is only temporary. Maybe it's a long time before a book wears out--but that's how long you have the right to own it. Nothing is forever, basically, and the way art works is through selling limited copyrights.

I think there's exceptions to when piracy is OK, when it's to protect works that are disappearing or are inaccessible because of outdated technology--but overall, piracy is not OK, and people tend to think that because it's OK sometimes it's OK all the time. But that's...a fantasy. It does not bully big corporations into doing what you want. They barely care because they have insurance that covers theft (and they destroy copies they don't sell anyway--all of the physical items you buy--they only make so many of them, and what doesn't sell, gets buried in the desert like ET the video game) The only people it hurts is the independent artists and small studios working under them that now won't make as much profit, and therefore won't get funded enough the next time they go to make a book or a game or a movie.

Just go to a library, and then everyone wins.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

This video is a little long, but I highly recommend watching it to gain an understanding of what piracy did to the music industry, and how it...actually helped it evolve into what it is today, with the various streaming services.

Believe it or not, there was a time where indie metal and punk bands encouraged piracy back in the 80s and 90s, because the big companies did nothing for them. One way they could get their music out there was through cassete tape trades.