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May 2021

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but shouldn't the plot be driven by the characters? I can’t think of any “good” stories that have a plot with characters that were just along for the ride.

I can't speak too much on this property because I haven't read the books or watched the movies. I also don't think this aspect is all encompassing an speaks to the story as a whole.

What comes to mind for me is Frodo from Lord of the Rings, though you can debate on if it's a plot driven story or characters driven. On the one hand, Frodo chooses to take the ring to Mordor, on the other, them getting to Mordor is kind of set in stone and any deviations didn't change the final outcome.

Though, maybe LOTR isn't the best example, there's much to debate there.

Oh dear, in my very early stories (the dark past) I made the mistake of not having the overall plot written, and I got totally lost in my own story after 2 or 3 chapters, which led me to dropping the whole thing out. Thankfully it wasn't anything I published anywhere hahaha.

So I usually have at least an overall plot with beginning / middle / end + some trivia ready, and then fully constructed characters with how I want them to evolve.

As for LOTR, I think if both the story and the characters are excellent, you can't know which one drives the other haha.

I’m not much of an expert on the lord of the rings either, but I’m pretty sure all of the characters still have their own motivations for things regardless of what destiny/fate mechanic is used to convey a sense of dramatic irony to the audience.

Maybe this plot vs character thing has more to do with the initial stages of outlining than the final result?

I think it's less about having motivations and more about if the characters act on them. Are you going to take the chance or wait for an opportunity?

I think it's a little of both.

I'm definitely a character driven writer! I struggle with plot. I have a good one now, and anyone reading the first chapters of my comic would probably think that the plot was driving the direction, but it sprung up to tie together existing character moments and interactions, not the other way around.

People who can map out unique and, intricate plots - especially mysteries, with all their different threads - are like magical unicorns to me.

That's a very personal favorite, but I love when the characters wait for an opportunity at first, and during the story they evolve such as they begin to take the chance!

This is dependent on the individual characters personally. Weather or not they wait for an opportunity is still dependent on that characters choices. A characters actions are connected to who they are. The widows of opportunity should typically also be dictated by the other characters at play.

Maybe I need to find an example something that is plot driven? I’ll look into this.

That's a good way to look at it.

Mulan, the remake not the original, has been characterized as a plot driven movie. I didn't bring it up before because it's a bad movie. And it's characterized that way because Mulan as a character is stagnant and even though she has motivations, they feel hollow and not intrinsic to the character's actions. There aren't many things in the movie that are a result of Mulan's actions.

My stories usually start with me cackling over some plot point, but then I need the characters to get from concept to story if that makes sense. Nobody is gonna care about the thing that made me cackle if I don't give them characters they can get invested in.

I found a quote that helped clear up my confusion!

E. M. Forster, in his book Aspects of the Novel. He says:

"'The king died and then the queen died,' is a story.

‘The king died, and then the queen died of grief,’ is a plot.

The time-sequence is preserved, but the sense of causality overshadows it.”

I was considering the first part to be an example of something that was plot driven and the second to be character driven. Both aspects (of plot and character) are required to create a plot instead of a story.

I got lost in the semantics of it lol

Right, it's a matter of how characters react to the things that happen to them. If they don't react and the story continues then it's plot driven, if the do react (or take the initial action) then it's character driven. This is why I think me bringing up LOTR was a bad example.

Sorry, I’m going to try and reword what you said to make sure it’s clicked in my brain correctly. I’m not trying to be an ass, I genuinely want to make sure:

Plot vs character is about whether or not the medium focuses on the actions or reactions of the characters.

Thank you!

My characters are part of the plots, they're designed to play their roles. So I guess my story is more character driven... I might need to change my poll choice. :joy:

Overall, my comic is driven forward by the main plot, but I think what really makes the story compelling are the character reactions to everything happening. The characters have their own stories of why everything is happening and how the plot is affecting them, and to be honest I want that to be the selling point of my story more than the main plot itself. I think the characters is what makes the story unique, otherwise it'd probably be considered a little cliche.

I'm a sucker for philosophy and themes. I like authors who have big and controversial things to say about reality, things I can compare and contrast with my own opinions. Characters can sometimes espouse ideas, but I prefer to see the plot advance according to the author's understanding of the world. I want to see the author's heart spilled onto paper. I like original ideas over original characters.

I began with the plot because first I needed to lay down the foundation, but after, I began working on the characters to make them as three-dimensional as I could. The characters need to be believable and not just a plot device - they are more than a mere tool to serve the plot, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if I have achieved this, but this is what I'm striving towards.

The plot is my chess board and the characters are the pieces.
I get to play on the Black and the White sides all at once. What fun!:joy: