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Oct 2020

Your story might have felt less streamlined if you had taken too much time with sub plots, though. So, perhaps the end result was a really cohesive experience? :slight_smile:

Oh yeah, from the start I never wanted to focus too much on subplots since it was supposed to be an overall light comedy series akin to a tv sitcom that's more episodic.

But I'm glad I didn't come up with extra stuff because after 5 years I was ready for that series to be dooooone.

I plot the world out, roughly outline the story, and pants the dialogue. So I use all of it, but I keep rough outlines so that if something pops into my head that is better than the rough plan, then I use it.

I like to have room for improvisation.

I meticulously plan everything on word documents, school-outline style (headers, sub-headers, bullets, etc)

I only keep the dialogue vague so I can improvise that as I go, but story-wise, I have it all completely down before a chapter gets written.

Exactly! I am a character driven writer and most of my conflicts are internal/ man vs man. This doesn't mean that I don't plan for the universe around them, but I tend to fill those details in after the characters are stable. I also feel a little strange trying to explain my process to others because I feel like I don't make sense XD

I've done both and continue t do so. I was a staff writer for an professional audio drama company for 12 years. The boss would totally plot everything out, I would do both. Of course writing audio drama is strictly dialog (I never used narration) and then I would let conversations take their natural course and edit.

I don't think either method is better than the other. It's totally up to the author and their muse.

This is called architect vs gardener. In my experience though if you don't have some kind of structure it's very noticeable. Even if you don't have all the details you need to have an idea of the shape you want a story to take. Most authors favor one over the other but most use both to some level

I don't know if I'd call it impressive just because pantsing an entire story does come with it's downsides. I probably have a lot more loose ends and threads to nowhere in my first draft than someone who plots out every little detail before writing a word. I'm sure if a developmental editor ever looked at my work they'd probably cry :joy_cat: Plotting is probably the better way to go for someone who wants to take their writing seriously. I don't know if I'll ever be more than a hobbiest so I don't really have to worry about that too much. I'll usually keep a list of things I want to fix/change as I'm writing if/when I ever do get to the second draft (which I 100% admit only 2 of my books have officially made it to a second draft out of 10 full length novels) but I'll still otherwise go with what my gut says is good for the story at the time. It really is just what feels natural to me.

I tend to do a mixture of both. As a whole, I know what I want to do with my novel, I have the major arcs and themes planned and I know how the story is going to end, but there’s certain details I make up as I go. I have characters with major impact on the story that haven’t even been named yet. Exactly how I’m going to transition from Point A to Point B isn’t always completely fleshed out, and that sometimes gets me into trouble, but I’m constantly experimenting with things so sticking to a plan has never gone too well for me. I’m sure my ADD plays a factor in all this as well lol

Wow, I think your notes are way more organized than mine! Haha, maybe I should develop a set style of how I keep note of information for stories.

It seems to make sense to me. It also makes me think a discussion thread about conflict types would be useful, because they are so fun to think about. I think my favorite is Man vs. God/gods in terms of structure, but it is hard to do that sort of story in anything other than a fantastical setting... I gotta figure out how to do a man v. god narrative in a sci fi world.

Definitely, I don't think one is superior to the other. I bet writing pure dialog for an audio drama requires a bit more planning than written dialogue though, because it has to SOUND good when read aloud. People underestimate how tricky that is to pull off.

I have heard architect/gardener and plotting/pantsing both. I think the "pantsing" term sounds funnier, so I like that one

lol I will give you that. Pantsing DOES sound funnier :stuck_out_tongue:

I started writing in theatre so dialogue comes naturally to me (I'm also a talker from a family of talkers lol).

The part that's hard with audio drama, especially if you don't use narration, is creating what's going on around you without saying "on the nose" things like "I see that's a $25.00 ticketyou have for the play" You have to change the dialog to something like "How much do I owe you?" answer "25 bucks" answer "okay, gimme the ticket" and then, of course, have the appropriate sound effects in the back. That's WAAAAAY over simplified but it's doable. One of my plays for my old company was done on a dare and it was a story without narration but only one actor.

Even if the overall structure of a complicated plotted story is better, I think being able to quickly draft out compelling stories without planning is impressive. In terms of the volume of work you could produce with that method, it certainly uses time effectively.

I mean the "god" in that sense could be something like in Psycho Pass where there's a "mother computer" that determines good vs. evil for example. Or a govt that acts like a God/god which could be cool. But you're right that trope is definitely steeped in fantasy/supernatural elements. I think that thread would be worthwhile to see what tropes people are aware of and their unique spins on the classical tropes!

That sounds mildly confusing, haha. Audio production has whole other levels of design involved too, yeah. Foley artists are very impressive and editors have to use the audio to help visualize information. I bet it was fun to work on a project like that. I did voice over for an audio story like that once, but I have not tried writing one myself

The computer from Psycho-Pass is probably a perfect example of that, yeah. Although, (SPOILERS for Psycho-Pass) once you see how the computer actually works, you realize as an audience member that the story is more man v. society, and the "god" computer is sort of a manifestation of society's will. That is also an interesting subject, to be fair.

You will figure it out, I am sure. On the subject of naming characters, I think sometimes you could name a character after finishing the entire story and it might end up being more poetic. If you find that they mirror a particular historical figure or something, giving them a similar name could be a nice tip of the hat. A lot of the time, my characters' names reflect something about them or the story in the meaning (sometimes they don't though).

It's okay I didn't like PP but that's an interesting "twist." Man v. society can be really intriguing as well depending on what society you put what character in. I'm not big on those because I feel like they can be taken so many different ways from what's intended and I dislike "getting into it" with people lol.

That is fair, it certainly leads to interpretation errors and fandom issues haha

I've done a bit of all of it, foley, design, voice. My most fun piece sound wise was a cigarette boat coming up on the right side of an old river clunker with machine guns (on the Amazon so all the bird sounds) then crosing the bow and going down the left side. Took days and days and sometimes I still see the tracks in my dreams after all these years.

Usually I left all of that to the guys who do it all the time. It was a fun 12 years but frustrating too as it was not lucrative. Still, audio is getting more and more and that's great. It was thrilling for me to see all the podcasts etc. My first show was done on tape... can you imagine? (Yeah, I'm an older fart)

Nothing wrong with having years of experience haha. I am curious what you think of audio editing now vs. audio editing before. I think there has been a bit of a resurgence in audio media content. NPR alone has seen an uptick and you are right, there are so many podcasts. I listened to the radio every day as a kid so I am happy to see a return to audio storytelling and talk. Also makes it easier to consume while I am busy working on something else

I definitely used to be able to churn out full length novels fairly quickly (like within a year at most) but my self confidence is in the tank right now so that has come to a stand still. I don't think plotting the books out instead would have any better result LOL but once I learned to embrace what was natural to me and just go with it, I did good with getting out a first draft in a decent amount of time. A friend of mine used to get jealous because I'm very prolific but I have the self confidence of a turd so being prolific didn't amount to much when I didn't think highly of my writing, where as she has all the confidence in the world in her writing but can't get anything finished in a timely fashion. She was working on the same novel for about 6 years.

I do a bit of both, but I find if you don't plot a little or at least know where you want your story to end up and how it is going to get there, then your wring becomes a lot harder.

That is true. I don't think I have ever started writing without at least an idea to spark my imagination and motivate me to begin anyway.

best thing I ever started doing. is write your last chapter early on. It gives you more motivation. :slight_smile:

6 years is quite a while, but I think it also depends on the idea and other stuff going on in life. I dunno if other people experience a similar issue, but worldbuilding and editing take me FOREVER, even though I draft the stories in a few weeks. Different parts of the process are probably more time consuming depending on the individual.

I was always at loggerheads with my boss and co-worker. I prefer a "wall of sound" and also the effect empty silence can have. The introduction of bi-naural (sorry spelling) was almost orgasmic the first time I heard it.

I personally didn't work the tape, that was left to the engineer and it was in the early 90's just when computer work was really coming in.

I do find some editing today (just some, not a lot) tend to have problem with balance, especially with a wall of sound. To me you need to keep it but damp it down so it's subliminal after it's been introduced (i.e footsteps if two people are walk and talking). And there are sounds that you have to ask yourself... is this really needed.

Some things I'm picky about are birds. Do not put a myna bird in a small wisconsin forests. (I've actually had to correct people.) My old boss could tell the engines of old cars. and we once had someone tell us that if the story was happening in 1949 the telephone ring we used was wrong.

Currently there is a LOT of new audio drama out there and a great deal of it is wonderful.

Getting the nat sound in the background is definitely important to maintain the atmosphere, yeah. But I see a lot of people making it way too overbearing or completely indistinguishable. Your point about having it hit you but then turning the sound down a bit after the introduction in the piece is definitely what I prefer.

I do plot things out, as it's the only way I know to actually see a project through to completion, but I find that no matter how much outlining I do, the story ends up writing itself, and often goes in directions I didn't plan for.

The outline is more like a road map to keep myself moving when I would otherwise get demotivated and not be sure of what to do next -- sometimes I just have to sit myself down and start writing a scene I'm not that excited about, but after a few minutes I usually get into it. I just need the outline to know what the next scene is.

Same here. The guys I worked with preferred to fade it out almost completely and often completely. That I didn't like. It turned it into a table reading for me. But... everyone's taste is different and I wasn't the one signing the paychecks. :wink:

I do think slice of life can be easier to be pantsed because we can play around the characters more easily, and to keep the story going in a relatable way. I'm planning to try pantsing by making a rough outline of starting point and outcome, and let the story flows from there, adding more details and some extra side plot instead of the flat plot I usually do. But, true, I'm also really curious how authors manage their pantsing, especially fantasy/action. I'm still unsure if I can even do it. My guts will definitely tell me to plot the entire things out ahahah

As bad as I am with my confidence, I think world-building is the one thing I'm good at. Seeing how the world plays out comes easy to me, though I have a pension for going overboard with it as well. I've gotten into the habit of thinking "does the reader really need this in order for the world to make sense. If not, then I'll write it down if it's ever needed but otherwise I'll focus on the world that's needed for that book"

Editing on the other hand...that's where I fail. My fragile self confidence will always go into a massive downward spiral and my brain will instantly be like "there is no amount of editing in the world that will make this book not suck" so that definitely took a while the few times I've done it with my books. It's the biggest reason I'll never branch above being a hobbiest. I practically need someone holding my hand every step of the way in editing which isn't realistic to ask for.

1 month later

I am definently a plotter. I tend to hyperfocus on whatever series I'm currently obsessing over to the point where every single detail has to be thought out in advance. It's a little neurotic, I'll admit. But that's always been my style.

That said, there's nothing I love more than coming up with a new idea while I'm writing something out I've already planned. Or better yet, finding something in the world that inspires my writing in some way. Whenever I come up with a new idea to include in my series, I'm always super excited to share it with everyone. To the point I become a little impatient wanting to get my idea down on paper and out to anyone interested in seeing it. I've learned to curve that at least a little, but I also find that that desire to share my new ideas with people is what helps motivate me as a writer.

I pantsed my first novel. I overplanned my second. I'm now somewhere in between. I love the worldbuilding, and character design of the planning stage and getting key scenes down. Then I pants from Plot point A to plot point B. Anything that happens is fine as long as I hot those points. It's worked for a number of short stories and my latest novels.

Basically writing by the "seat of your pants". You focus on writing what comes naturally instead of overly structuring the story.